Radioactive Treasures, Trash, and History

[UnderMiner]

Any updates? I've sometimes thought about purchasing a frisker for this same reason - just poking around - but the ones that I want cost a bit more than I'd like to pay. Living through someone else's experiences vicariously is almost as good.

I went to the thrift store this morning with my radiation detector and I found a very nice antique Swiss wind-up clock with a beautiful Radium-painted dial. Another person was looking at it but he put it down. I picked it up and put my detector to it to see if it was as radioactive as it looked - the detector went crazy - 32 Microrem per hour with a peak of 132 Gamma counts per second. So I paid the $5.99 for it and took it home. At home I sprayed it with some canned air and the beautiful Swiss mechanism inside began ticking. So now I have this very unique radioactive clock to ad to my every expanding collection of radioactive antiques. Under black light you can really appreciate the beauty of a Radium dial clock.




Edit: I found the above image of the original 1962 advertisement for the clock. The ad describes the clock as "luminous", but fails to mention that the clock is also highly radioactive haha, that wouldn't be good for business.

 

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[Molewacker]

I wanted one of these! Dad worked at Hanford so into atomic stuff forever!

 

[UnderMiner]

I wanted one of these! Dad worked at Hanford so into atomic stuff forever!

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Yes, those old science kits were very popular back then and the subjects of science and math were actually rigorously encouraged and funded by the federal government. The thought was to get kids interested in science and math at an early age and then they would eventually become the next great generation of scientists when they grew up. The nuclear age and space age had some of the best scientists as a result of things like this. I found a chemistry set from the 1950's once that looked very similar - it contained chemicals such as Sodium Cyanide, Ammonium Nitrate, and Cobalt Chloride. Less lawsuits and not sheltering kids from reality back then meant kids could have more fun and learn stuff.

 

[RTR]

Want some ? We have TONS here Uranium in Virginia

 

[Stringtyer]

When I was a youngster and the whole Atomic Age was starting, I wrote what was the Atomic Energy Commission and asked for some information. They sent all kinds of booklets and included a dime that had been irradiated. It came in a protective aluminum case with a clear plastic top. Wish I still had that. Also had an atomic energy science kit that included an eyepiece that had a florescent screen and a beta source. If you got in a dark place to let your eyes adjust to the darkness and looked into the eyepiece, you could see tiny spots on the screen where the beta particles were hitting it.

I probably got more dose playing with those toys than in my 20+ years working in and around nuclear power plants.

 

[Dave Rishar]

They sent all kinds of booklets and included a dime that had been irradiated. It came in a protective aluminum case with a clear plastic top. Wish I still had that. Also had an atomic energy science kit that included an eyepiece that had a florescent screen and a beta source.

I have one of those myself, from the 1964-1965 World Fair. (Unfortunately it's a later one with a plastic case.) Read more about them here: https://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/medalsmementoes/dimes.htm

Interestingly enough, one of these coins today should still have detectable levels of activity, but not very much. Perhaps even more interestingly, such a coin would no longer be 90% silver and 10% copper, but would now be somewhat less than that, with the remainder consisting of cadmium, palladium, nickel, and zinc. As you might be able to tell, I get a kick out of this stuff.

I probably got more dose playing with those toys than in my 20+ years working in and around nuclear power plants.

It sounds like the AEC "toys" were mostly beta emitters, so you should have been fine if you didn't eat any of them. I'd expect the main concern at a power plant to be gammas unless something had gone very wrong, but that's admittedly an assumption as I've never worked at or visited a commercial operation.

Good stuff, Stringtyer.

 

[UnderMiner]

It sounds like the AEC "toys" were mostly beta emitters, so you should have been fine if you didn't eat any of them. I'd expect the main concern at a power plant to be gammas unless something had gone very wrong, but that's admittedly an assumption as I've never worked at or visited a commercial operation.
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If human skin is exposed to an uncovered Beta-emitter the Beta particles will actually cause more harm than Gamma rays as Beta particles are essentially tiny DNA-wrecking balls compared to Gamma Rays which are more like beams of energy. Alpha emitters pose no risk as long as they are not ingested as the particles are so large that the top dead layer of skin is enough to stop them from entering the body and causing damage - but Beta Particles have just enough power to get under the skin and they wreak more havoc than Gamma - that is why all radiation sources need to be handled with gloves - simple thin rubber gloves will stop Beta and Alpha. Gamma is the least dangerous in low dosage compared to the others but it is also the most difficult to contain and in very high dosages is very dangerous.

The strange thing about Gamma radiation is it does not affect everyone equally, some people, mostly older people, are hardly affected by it at all while younger people are very highly affected - case in point Anatoly Stepanovich Dyatlov, the head engineer of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant had been present at not only the Chernobyl nuclear meltdown but also an earlier nuclear meltdown on a submarine he had been trapped inside - the man had received a radiation exposure so staggeringly massive that 50% of people with similar exposure died within a month and the other 50% died a few years down the line - he not only didn't die he was hardly affected at all and ended up dying at the age of 95 of heart failure completely un-associated with his radiation exposure decades earlier... makes you think.

 

[Dave Rishar]

We're going deeper now.

If human skin is exposed to an uncovered Beta-emitter the Beta particles will actually cause more harm than Gamma rays as Beta particles are essentially tiny DNA-wrecking balls compared to Gamma Rays which are more like beams of energy.

Unless you're wearing clothing, which most of us do.

Alpha emitters pose no risk as long as they are not ingested as the particles are so large that the top dead layer of skin is enough to stop them from entering the body and causing damage - but Beta Particles have just enough power to get under the skin and they wreak more havoc than Gamma - that is why all radiation sources need to be handled with gloves - simple thin rubber gloves will stop Beta and Alpha.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but particularly high energy alphas can actually enter the eyeball. It's not something that I'd personally worry about, but there it is. In practice, weak beta emitters like that are probably nothing of concern.

Not all radiation sources need to be handled with gloves. With gamma emitters, it's usually a moot point. If there is a concern about spreading contamination, gloves are obviously an excellent idea.

Gamma is the least dangerous in low dosage compared to the others but it is also the most difficult to contain and in very high dosages is very dangerous.

Technically correct, but a bit of a misnomer. An alpha source is only dangerous when ingested. (Or as previously mentioned, when a powerful enough source is basically placed against an open eye.) Betas are dangerous when close to uncovered skin. Gammas are dangerous when you're within range of them. Yeah, they don't mess things up as much as basically any other form of radiation does, but they can nearly always mess things up to some degree. Gammas are less damaging than other forms of exposure once they'e entered the body, but they're always entering the body. Context is important here.

The strange thing about Gamma radiation is it does not affect everyone equally, some people, mostly older people, are hardly affected by it at all while younger people are very highly affected - case in point Anatoly Stepanovich Dyatlov, the head engineer of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant had been present at not only the Chernobyl nuclear meltdown but also an earlier nuclear meltdown on a submarine he had been trapped inside - the man had received a radiation exposure so staggeringly massive that 50% of people with similar exposure died within a month and the other 50% died a few years down the line - he not only didn't die he was hardly affected at all and ended up dying at the age of 95 of heart failure completely un-associated with his radiation exposure decades earlier... makes you think.

It's not just gammas either. If I had to take a SWAG at this one, I'd opine that high doses of radiation interfere with cellular division, and the cells in older bodies don't divide as rapidly as they do in younger bodies. Science hasn't adequately explained this one yet, even with our rather large volume of experimental data on the subject.

As for large doses, Harold McCluskey - otherwise known as the Atomic Man - received not only a large acute dose, but also a large chronic dose of radiation when a glove box exploded in his face in 1976, embedding Amercium-141 in his body. He was already an old man suffering from coronary artery disease when this happened, and this dose probably should have killed him, but it didn't. He went on to live another 11 years. At the time of his death, his body would have set off our alarms. He died of that same coronary artery disease. There was no evidence of cancer in his body when he died. The question that I have is did this dose shorten his life, not effect it significantly, or did it actually prolong it by a bit?

I've read that the old folks that have illegally moved back into Pripyat since the Chernobyl incident are doing better medically than they ought to have been otherwise. The wildlife certainly is doing better, but that's to be expected when most of the people leave. It's weird stuff.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Fascinating post! I want one now.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

UnderMiner,

Unfortunately, most kids do not take things apart, experiment on their own and are not curious! Everything now is online/virtual, but there comes a time when pretty pictures and movies do not get the job done; like when you have to build something and have it work. The curious component is the key. People are born curious...ever watch a baby or toddler react when you give them something new to see or they ask the famous question WHY? a million times. IMHO the educational system wears it out of kids the further they advance in the K -12 system. Now when I get them in college, they look at me strange when I say "has anyone taken apart something that was broken?"..."NO Professor, we just throw it out!" I said the next time you have something that is broken and has mechanical parts...take it apart and see what is inside and how it works...you are throwing it out anyway, so do not worry about breaking it. Ah, if they would only listen to the Professor...

Doc

 

[coinman123]

UnderMiner,

Unfortunately, most kids do not take things apart, experiment on their own and are not curious! Everything now is online/virtual, but there comes a time when pretty pictures and movies do not get the job done; like when you have to build something and have it work. The curious component is the key. People are born curious...ever watch a baby or toddler react when you give them something new to see or they ask the famous question WHY? a million times. IMHO the educational system wears it out of kids the further they advance in the K -12 system. Now when I get them in college, they look at me strange when I say "has anyone taken apart something that was broken?"..."NO Professor, we just throw it out!" I said the next time you have something that is broken and has mechanical parts...take it apart and see what is inside and how it works...you are throwing it out anyway, so do not worry about breaking it. Ah, if they would only listen to the Professor...

Doc

I completely agree. I learned more about how items work as a kid by taking apart broken items and looking at how all the pieces work inside, then I could possibly learn from any video, website or virtual thingy.