Radioactive Treasures, Trash, and History

[UnderMiner]

I recently acquired a pocket geiger counter and was having some fun finding some radiation sources. First I checked my house and was surprised to find a super radioactive compass in my basement among things my grandfather owns. The compass emits so much gamma radiation that I was able to find it just by following the beeps of the geiger counter as I got nearer to its location inside an old chest of draws.

Long story short it turned out to be a WWII Radium Dial on the compass that was emitting 1.9 Millirem per hour, nearly 1000 times higher than normal background radiation levels - extremely high for something just laying around the house, but it is in fact quite low when you consider you would have to be in close contact with the compass for over 5 hours before you received the equivalent dose of radiation emitted by just a single medical X-Ray scan. Still, back in the day when the compass was new in the 1940's it would have been significantly more radioactive and would have likely been in someone's pocket (my grandpa's) for days or even weeks at a time, so that couldn't have been too good for you.

This really sparked my curiosity in radioactive antiques. In my house alone I ended up finding two clocks with radium dials that emitted just under 100 Microrem each - LESS powerful than the compass but still 50 times higher than normal background radiation levels (which is about 2 Microrem).

The next thing I wanted to do in my adventure through radiation hunting was find some radioactive things outside of my house. So I took the geiger counter to the beach and found some granite/marble boulders that are naturally radiation-emitting. The boulders put out between 10 and 40 Microrem of Gamma radiation - pretty high considering they're just rocks, but not high enough to warrant concern. I chipped off a piece of the boulder and measured it and it did not register as radioactive at all, this is because the boulder's radiation is spread out very thinly throughout its entire structure and any one little piece is not concentrated enough to register. Only by being very large would these rocks register as radioactive.

Next I took my geiger counter to an old landfill and I discovered little pieces of orange dinner plate called Fiestaware that was popular in the 1930's. The tiny fragments emitted around 17 Microrem despite being very small their radiation content was very concentrated. Considering these plates were meant for food use is disconcerting. My research indicates that Pre-WWII Fiestaware was made using Uranium 238 glaze which gave the plate a nice bright orange color, it also would have made eating food off the plate quite dangerous as acidic foods had a tendency to leach the Uranium out of the glaze and then... well, you're eating Uranium. Luckily for people living in America, WWII broke out and the US government seized all the Uranium 238 being used by the Fiestaware manufacturing plant for use in the Manhattan Project. And so Fiestaware discontinued the Uranium Orange plates from their stores as a result (Later in the 1960's-1970's they reintroduced the Orange plate using Depleted Uranium from spent nuclear fuel rods, "yum yum", they were not particularly popular at this time as people had wized up to the fact that Uranium is not good to eat and the plates were discontinued.)


Also at this landfill I found a mysterious area that was radioactive alot more than it should have been. The ground was measuring 70-75 Microrem (35 times higher than normal background radiation levels) and the source appeared to be incinerator slag and not naturally occurring radiation from granite stone. Just by standing above the area the geiger counter was indicating over 20 Microrem - ten times higher than normal, and the sensor wasn't even in contact with anything.

I took 5 samples of small slag rocks from the area and tested them individually, 3 turned out to be nonradioactive while two measured 20 Microrem, ten times higher than normal background radiation levels, considering they are very small their radiation is too concentrated to be from a naturally occurring source, there is some sort of nuclear material in these pieces of slag and so far I have no idea what it could be. If I had to guess I would say Radium but it could be anything. I can't do it now, but in the future I may have the samples analyzed under a spectrometer to identify what material is in them, for now they are stored in a plastic bag sealed in a lead container.

Now I bring my little geiger counter everywhere in hopes that I will find something radioactive randomly through my daily travels.

Does anyone have any stories about hunting for, owning, or finding radioactive objects?

 

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[Kray Gelder]

Cool post. Gotta love that radioactive dinnerware!

 

[buck8point]

Interesting...
What model Geiger counter is that?

 

[TooManyHobbies]

A few years ago, I went moose hunting in Newfoundland, CN. A friend who was a Korea war vet had one of those compasses with him. Going out was no problem, but coming back into the USA all sorts of lights and sirens went off. Border patrol asked right away if any of us had a WWII or Korea war compass with us. That little dot in the center, buried in his backpack, tucked into the trailer was plenty to make some excitement.
We asked why it didn't go off when we left the USA. Border patrol officer said we don't care what goes out, we care what comes in.
Heading back up in late Sept, but sadly, " Lucky" passed away a couple years ago at age 89. Not sure if his son will be carrying his dad's compass.

 

[UnderMiner]

Interesting...
What model Geiger counter is that?

RadEye Personal Radiation Detector, very accurate for measuring Gamma rays exclusively. It does not measure alpha or beta particles.

 

[UnderMiner]

A few years ago, I went moose hunting in Newfoundland, CN. A friend who was a Korea war vet had one of those compasses with him. Going out was no problem, but coming back into the USA all sorts of lights and sirens went off. Border patrol asked right away if any of us had a WWII or Korea war compass with us. That little dot in the center, buried in his backpack, tucked into the trailer was plenty to make some excitement.
We asked why it didn't go off when we left the USA. Border patrol officer said we don't care what goes out, we care what comes in.
Heading back up in late Sept, but sadly, " Lucky" passed away a couple years ago at age 89. Not sure if his son will be carrying his dad's compass.

Interesting story, and strange that the border patrol would not monitor radioactive material leaving the country considering it could be used by nefarious individuals to construct weapons in other countries and then use them against us at a later time. Just recently it was reported that some Plutonium went missing in Texas, the agents "left it in their car" while they were asleep in the hotel room and that night someone broke the car window and stole the Plutonium, they have no clue where it is now.

 

[uglymailman]

I once heard some brick walls give off more radiation than a Nuke. plant is allowed to emit. Good luck.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Nice to see you are enjoying your new device. Keep at it, there are many items we come in contact that have a radioactive signature.

The "Coleman" lantern replaceable bag is radioactive, well used to be some years ago...give it a check.

I worked around and with radiation as a scientist for many years...just treat it with "respect" and you should be fine...I hope!

 

[Terry Soloman]

An old beer bar down on the East side of Manhattan, had Vaseline glass lamps hanging in the bar from Russia. I always pondered them while enjoying my brews.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Check your home smoke detectors.

 

[TooManyHobbies]

Interesting story, and strange that the border patrol would not monitor radioactive material leaving the country considering it could be used by nefarious individuals to construct weapons in other countries and then use them against us at a later time. Just recently it was reported that some Plutonium went missing in Texas, the agents "left it in their car" while they were asleep in the hotel room and that night someone broke the car window and stole the Plutonium, they have no clue where it is now.

Remember, leaving the USA it's the Canada border patrol protecting their country....or not. As long as our guys are doing their job, I'm happy.

 

[against the wind]

Well I got an invitation to fly in an airplane cargo hold to Russia a few years ago. That invitation came from a lady who has the initials HRC. The cargo hold was glowing.

 

[Plumbata]

I dug up a bunch of pieces of a "Revigator" water jar (blue one in middle of pic), with the inside lined with about 1/16th of an inch of some sort of "radioactive green" ore, apparently high-grade and extra delicious.



When finding that pic to share, these magnificent fruits of unmitigated genius caught my eye:



Oughta put some pep in any man's step! I'd love to see what border security would do of they intercepted someone with a box of those stuffed up their bum, haha!

 

[against the wind]

I dug up a bunch of pieces of a "Revigator" water jar (blue one in middle of pic), with the inside lined with about 1/16th of an inch of some sort of "radioactive green" ore, apparently high-grade and extra delicious.

View attachment 1613167

When finding that pic to share, these magnificent fruits of unmitigated genius caught my eye:

View attachment 1613171 View attachment 1613172

Oughta put some pep in any man's step! I'd love to see what border security would do of they intercepted someone with a box of those stuffed up their bum, haha!

I think NSA is more qualified to HANDLE the buns area. They like doing that.

 

[chub]

Interesting post. Thanks for sharing. I read an amusing book (fiction) called 'lets put the future behind us'. Set in Russia post cold war one of the characters couldnt resist owning highly contaminated gold and fine art....entertaining concept.

Chub

 

[UnderMiner]

Well I got an invitation to fly in an airplane cargo hold to Russia a few years ago. That invitation came from a lady who has the initials HRC. The cargo hold was glowing.

Speaking of glowing radioactive material, I was just back to the old contaminated landfill and collected a whole bag full of Uranium glass, it is glass they made back in the day using "Uranium Oxide Diuranate" which gave the glass a distinct green tinge and allowed it to glow bright green under black light. Here are the samples I collected today:

 

[UnderMiner]

So I went back to the contaminated landfill to take more readings and discovered a staggering Gamma reading of 106 Microrem/hour coming up from whatever this purple sand is!

This was my highest Gamma radiation reading to date for something just outside laying around! I took a small sample and just a few ounces of the stuff was emitting 35 Microrem/hour so the stuff is quite concentrated whatever it is.

Update: This is very interesting, apparently this is likely a natural radiation source known as "radioactive black sands". Radioactive black sands are rare to find with radiation levels so high but they are still something to watch out for. They result from an accumulation of the minerals containing natural radionuclides (Thorium, Uranium, and their decay products) and look like black areas on beaches. In these places, the radioactivity can be tens or even hundreds of times higher in comparison to natural background radiation levels. People sometimes think they are safe because they are natural, but they are just as bad as any nuclear waste. If it is ingested or breathed in it will expose the person to Alpha, Beta, and Gamma ray from the inside and that is the worst kind of radiation exposure.

 

[UnderMiner]

I dug up a bunch of pieces of a "Revigator" water jar (blue one in middle of pic), with the inside lined with about 1/16th of an inch of some sort of "radioactive green" ore, apparently high-grade and extra delicious.

View attachment 1613167

When finding that pic to share, these magnificent fruits of unmitigated genius caught my eye:

View attachment 1613171 View attachment 1613172

Oughta put some pep in any man's step! I'd love to see what border security would do of they intercepted someone with a box of those stuffed up their bum, haha!

I found this article on your water dispenser, very interesting history behind it:

Radioactive toothpaste, suppositories, makeup: Would-be inventors seeking to capitalize on the discovery of radioactivity in the late 19th century produced a plethora of questionable medical devices and treatments. Among the most famous of these was the Revigator, an earthenware vessel that, according to an advertisement, would infuse drinking water with "the lost element of original freshness–radioactivity." With some technical assistance from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), researcher Michael Epstein and a group of students at Mount Saint Mary's University in Emmitsburg, Md., discovered that the risk the Revigator posed flowed not so much from the radioactivity, but from the presence of toxic elements dissolved in the water.

The Radium Ore Revigator Company sold several hundred thousand of their glazed ceramic jugs between 1920 and the mid-1930s.

The rough, porous inner surface of the Revigator was lined with clay containing carnotite ore, a potassium-uranium-vanadate mineral which released radon into the water as the radium in the ore decayed. According to the manufacturer, the radiation could treat or cure ailments ranging from arthritis and flatulence to senility and poisoning.

"The Revigator was an attempt to mimic spa, or spring water," explains Epstein. "People figured that spring water was radioactive, and it seemed to be good for you, so why not make your own? Most of the literature on the Web has referenced the danger as coming from the radioactivity. My students and I wanted to see if that was true."
Working with NIST scientist Lee Yu, the Mount St. Mary's team set out to determine the extent of the hazards the Revigator might have posed. According to their recent paper,* the researchers measured the amount of radiation emanating from the vessel with a Geiger counter, the radon concentration in the air and water from a jar that had been sealed for one week, and the levels of toxic elements that may have dissolved into water sealed in the jars for one day and one week using a mass spectrometer, a highly sensitive instrument for detecting chemicals and elements.

The team found that radon concentrations in the air and water sampled from jars sealed for one week significantly exceeded the EPA-recommended maximum contaminant levels (MCL). Nevertheless, the team noted that the concentration of radon in the air, given the drafty conditions of an early 20th century home, would not have posed a significant health risk. Moreover, although the levels of radon in the water were high–between 50,000 and 200,000 picoCuries per liter–the study found that, compared to the myriad other disease-related causes of mortality at the time, the chances of dying as a result of drinking radon-infused water were relatively low.

Instead, they found the greatest risks associated with drinking the recommended six to eight daily glasses of "revigated" water was from toxic elements–arsenic, lead, vanadium and uranium–dissolved in the water. Although the concentrations varied with the containers and whether the samples were taken from the top of the containers or from the leaden spout, most of the containers exhibited levels of toxic elements in excess of EPA or OSHA recommendations. Especially striking were the samples of exposed water mixed with a mild acid to mimic wine or fruit juice. Ordinary water kept sealed in one of the jars contained two to twenty times the EPA MCL for arsenic, and some samples showed almost twice as much lead and uranium. The acidified water contained 300 times more arsenic and three times more uranium than the EPA MCL.

"For me, it was quite interesting that people at the time were drinking something that they didn't understand given all that we now know about how harmful these things are to human health," says Yu. "It's amazing to me how eager companies were to commercialize new discoveries without a clear understanding of the risks involved."

* M. Epstein, D.G. Miles Jr., and L.L. Yu. What were they drinking? A critical study of the radium ore revigator. Applied Spectroscopy. Volume 63, Issue 12, Pages 324A-354A and 1315-1442, (December 2009) , pp. 1406-1409(4). DOI: 10.1366/000370209790109003.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Just recently it was reported that some Plutonium went missing in Texas, the agents "left it in their car" while they were asleep in the hotel room and that night someone broke the car window and stole the Plutonium, they have no clue where it is now.

It was my understanding that the radioactive material in question consisted of sources for equipment calibration. There wouldn't be enough there to cause serious trouble with.

Check your home smoke detectors.

I wouldn't expect too much of a show. If the source being used is Americium 241, its emissions are almost entirely alphas.

Speaking of glowing radioactive material, I was just back to the old contaminated landfill and collected a whole bag full of Uranium glass, it is glass they made back in the day using "Uranium Oxide Diuranate" which gave the glass a distinct green tinge and allowed it to glow bright green under black light.

What impresses me is just how much of that uranium glass they made. As I understand it, uranium ores were basically valueless prior to WWII.

Radioactive toothpaste, suppositories, makeup: Would-be inventors seeking to capitalize on the discovery of radioactivity in the late 19th century produced a plethora of questionable medical devices and treatments. Among the most famous of these was the Revigator, an earthenware vessel that, according to an advertisement, would infuse drinking water with "the lost element of original freshness–radioactivity." With some technical assistance from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), researcher Michael Epstein and a group of students at Mount Saint Mary's University in Emmitsburg, Md., discovered that the risk the Revigator posed flowed not so much from the radioactivity, but from the presence of toxic elements dissolved in the water.

Read about Radithor and Eben Byers. A joker named William J. A. Bailey made a lot of money selling a radium infusion as a do-all health elixir. Radium's radiological effects on the body are bad, but what's just as bad is how your body treats it: chemically it's similar to calcium, so your body begins building bones out of it. Most people don't realize that their bones are continually being broken down and rebuilt at a rate determined by how much they're abused. The jawbone actually sees the most damage, and thus the most regeneration. The eventual result of this is a condition that was known as "radium jaw," where the jaw was mostly made of radium and generally fell off. Byers lost his jaw to radium jaw shortly before he died.

Bailey's defense was that his product could not be dangerous, as he drank enormous amounts of it and was perfectly fine. He did die of cancer, but not until he was 64. Most people didn't believe his claims about his use of his own product, but his body was exhumed a few decades later and reportedly had some frighteningly high levels and lots of radium in the skeleton, so it's quite possible that he did actually drink Radithor and thought it was safe. This brings up an interesting side subject of radiation and its health effects - different people have different levels of tolerance to it and we're not sure why, but it's likely that genetics plays the primary role.

RadEye Personal Radiation Detector, very accurate for measuring Gamma rays exclusively. It does not measure alpha or beta particles.

I wasn't familiar with the model, but I recognized the brand. We use some Thermo Scientific products at work.

About your WWII compass, the radionuclide used on the dial is radium 226. It has a half life of 1600 years, so it's still just about as radioactive as it was when it was new. The glow goes away due to other factors. I'm quite surprised that you were getting that much activity from it, but then again I have no idea what these should be reading, or even how uniform the radium paint was when it was produced. I suppose that it's possible that your grandfather got a "hot" one, or maybe they're all like that. Interesting to read about nonetheless.

As you said, 1.6 mR per hour is nothing to worry about for reasonable periods of time. Even if you slept with it next to your body every night, you'd receive just under 3 R per year if my math is correct - a perfectly acceptable dose for a radiation worker, even if it's nearly ten times what a non-radiation worker would receive from natural sources on average. There's no hard cutoff point where a chronic dose becomes a health hazard (and again, different people can tolerate different amounts), but the rule of thumb in the industry is to avoid unnecessary exposure, even if modern medicine up till now says that something like this is not a problem.

tl;dr version: Your compass is safe if you don't eat the dial.

As far as getting higher background levels on granite, that's because it generally contains uranium, which in turn is breaking down into more active isotopes. I've read that workers in Grand Central Station receive yearly doses significantly higher than their neighbors do, specifically because they spend their work week surrounded by granite. Like you've noticed, certain things will be hotter than other things, and there's nothing like the occasional natural radon spike to set the alarms off and make everyone jump, but generally speaking it's unlikely to encounter anything dangerous in normal life, radiologically speaking. Radon accumulating in the basement is the main one that Americans should (but usually don't) worry about, and even that is not something that's going to hurt you if it's an occasional thing.

Nice to see you are enjoying your new device. Keep at it, there are many items we come in contact that have a radioactive signature.

Most people have no idea. The sky, the ground, their food...even their bodies, if the equipment is sensitive enough. Fortunately, all life on Earth can tolerate low levels of radiation. The species that couldn't died out a long time ago.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Any updates? I've sometimes thought about purchasing a frisker for this same reason - just poking around - but the ones that I want cost a bit more than I'd like to pay. Living through someone else's experiences vicariously is almost as good.