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Thread: Well, son is up to 20 plus on the poisonous snakes around house

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  1. #16
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1320 View Post
    Sounds like the home supports a good food supply for the snakes. Mice=buffet
    Ya know...I think you hit the nail on the head...if there is mice around there will be those snakes. I've had no mice,little chipmunks or any snake food source since I did the cedar chips. I do have box turtles come in the yard still.

    I should of said on the cedar chips that I made the outline around the yard the size of 8" wide and about 6" tall speed bumps! lol!! I was told it was a bit of overkill but I've got a lot of cedar trees and I hate brown recluse spiders, copperheads and cotton mouth snakes. Can't be too careful with those.

    Kace
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  2. #17
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    actually I think that I know pretty sure what the food source is and it is nature. I was at his house yesterday evening and heard a lot of the very noisy Cicadas, large 17 year locusts are what some call them. They get very loud with their wings as they attempt to find a mate. He seems to have a very large amount of them this year. I know for a fact that they are prime food for the snakes as my grandfather had the same problem one year and that was what they were eating. The copperheads were even up in the smaller trees, the bushes and his grape vines after them. some of the snakes would have two or three of the locusts inside them. They can feel the vibration of the bugs plus smell them, easy meal. so it is like a constant dinner bell being rang.
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  3. #18
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    Kace

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    That's true on the locusts being a food source for copperheads and there are sprays and other ways to get them away from trees, bushes and decks.

    It just makes me cringe thinking about kids even going out on the deck or to the car with those copperheads around. I hope you figure some solutions out.

    Kace
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  4. #19
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    Like everyone else, I hope "y'all" manage to avoid being bitten. But that said, accidents happen, and this is a situation where it will not be a surprise. Have you contacted your hospital to ask if they stock a supply of anti-venom, and if not, where is the nearest vial? Also, have you checked your health insurance to see what parts of snake-bite treatment are covered and what your co-pays or co-insurance would be for different parts of the treatment? Would you be covered for an ambulance ride to the hospital? Nobody wants to think about these things - but it could be a good idea to start asking questions.
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  5. #20
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    If your pets are still allowed outside, snakes are usually an iresistable attraction to them. I don't know if pet health insurance would cover snake bites, but it might be worth checking out. I had a cat bitten by a copperhead and driving him to the animal hospital an hour away was the fastest I had ever driven my pickup truck. It was expensive, but I am one who adopts others' cast-offs and I accept the responsibility for their care - even when it becomes expensive.
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  6. #21
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    It is a long shot, but have you contacted Arkansas Game & Fish Commission? I don't know about Arkansas, but some states have a snake expert who acts as the state herpetologist. That biologist could help if there is some local research into snake control methods. That biologist would be aware of research being done by graduate students - something usually unseen and unknown. With the anti-science emphasis so common today among many states, state biologist jobs have the security of an ice cube dropped on the kitchen floor; the state biologists remaining are often eager to show their worth by helping the public. I assume it was one reason why I was not fired in my 32+ years when so many of my co-workers were.
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  7. #22
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Like everyone else, I hope "y'all" manage to avoid being bitten. But that said, accidents happen, and this is a situation where it will not be a surprise. Have you contacted your hospital to ask if they stock a supply of anti-venom, and if not, where is the nearest vial? Also, have you checked your health insurance to see what parts of snake-bite treatment are covered and what your co-pays or co-insurance would be for different parts of the treatment? Would you be covered for an ambulance ride to the hospital? Nobody wants to think about these things - but it could be a good idea to start asking questions.
    Great Points on the Anti Venom and Game and Fish!

    I've known 2 people that were bit a total of 3 times and on two of the times the largest hospital in the middle of copperhead country didn't carry it. Really?? Luckily a very small urgent care (I don't know what else to call it) off the beaten path had it.

    It was about $300 for a walk in dog copperhead AV shot...No insurance. This was awhile back... a friends Labrador got bit on the nose at Truman Lake.

    I've not checked with insurance.

    You're right.. with that copperhead infestation they have chances are a pet or person is going to get bit...it would be a good idea to have AV for both on hand.

    Horrible Situation.

    Kace
    Last edited by Kace; Jul 30, 2018 at 09:45 PM.
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  8. #23
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  9. #24
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    I think its well past time getting serious about eliminating the problem. I could care less about people who want to play with snakes etcetera but when an innocent child is threatened it gets my dander up. Its not rocket science. You don't get more than a few snakes a year without there being a den or two close around. And its already been stated correctly and logically so that they are there looking for food. I can only say the source of the food has to be human originated and has to be of the size to attract small animals such as birds and mice/rats. As an example are there chickens outside that are thrown scratch? Do you feed dogs an amount of food they don't eat it all at one setting? If you do the leftovers attract the animal the snakes want. It is true that some aromatic woods tend to deter snakes but its no guarantee and it would have to be several feet wide, continuous and no bushes for the snake to use to get over it. After all the snake is a hunter and can see so it will look for a means to achieve its goal. Relatively few people die from snake bites of poisonous snakes but those that are bit pay a price when bitten and for years to come. Contact an authoritative source in your area that is familiar with poisonous snakes for assistance. I am thoroughly familiar with poisonous snakes and they are nothing to be ignored. As early as the 1950's my family caught every type poisonous snake in this country and supplied them to the Ross Allen Serpentarium in Ocala, Florida where he displayed them and managed the first part of creating antivenom. Children do not have the ability to sustain a continuous bite by any of the larger venomous snakes which usually inject the greatest volume of venom. There are several factors and its not just a simple matter of how much venom is injected and where its injected. Its not just the venom itself that kills but often the bodies own defenses react in such a way that causes death in one person and not another such as in the case of anaphylactic shock. There are other bacteria as well as differences in toxicity. Some are more nerve only based toxins and others hemorragic. But you still have to concern yourself with is it a spreading class and or digestive. Some cause severe tissue damage for months afterwards and possible loss of an appendage even if you survive. One of my buddies and my son have been bitten the former by an eastern diamondback and the latter by water moccasin. I have entered caves and seen hundreds of diamondbacks at one time. I've encountered them on ledges while rock climbing and in boats while fishing old phosphate mine pits. Diamondbacks have no fear of swimming and moccasins with bunch up in the water if they are migrating for whatever reason such as leaving a control burn site. Death may occur due to internal bleeding of the bowels and bladder. The best available compact and authoritative source I would recommend on this subject is Robert Arnold, MD "What to Do About Bites and Stings of Venomous Animals. Its a small pocket book a camper can even throw in the medical kit. But only a fool would buy it and not read it first because TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE in dealing with any venomous bite. Surprisingly few doctors know 20% of what is in this small handbook that could save your life or at least minimize the pain and damage cause by a one size/means approach fits all venomous bite philosophy. But while I applaud this little book amongst hundreds, NOTHING BEATS PREVENTION! I have also deal with South American venomous snakes and spiders and this book even covers them. So get rid of the attractants and or birthing dens in that order. Finding den locations are hard sometimes in rocky areas as they may originate at the base of a shrub. PLEASE BE CAREFUL and take care of those kids. Years ago before it was illegal, we used to insert a garden hose down inside a potential den hole and listen. Most times you can hear them rattling or moving around that way. Then we would pour gasoline down the garden hose into gopher holes or whatever to force them to come out. They don't care much for the fumes and in some cases you could contaminate a water source so that's why its illegal now. Regardless, we didn't know that and we would capture them when they came out. Keep in find there are often several outlets to caves/dens. More than once we had snakes appear from a different direction that from the one we were looking at. So look around. Again always be careful and follow the law. OH! Don't pour gas and oil down a hole and set it on fire. You may increase the snake traffic rather quickly and you could be party to an explosion you you never anticipated and accomplish little other than getting hurt.

  10. #25
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    I just finish posting to this problem of snake bites and a pocket book source for what to do. It also contains sources for antivenoms based upon state location and what the snake or whatever was by name/species. For example no one has produced antivenom for corral snakes for years because its not cost effective. So no need to look. But many hospitals have gone to using just one antivenom when its possible to get the most appropriate one if you know the source and its timely. In many cases the antivenom is worse on the patient than the original venom. If available records are to be believed regarding venomous bites, most adults will survive whether they get the antivenom or not. But that is not true of small persons (children, low body mass, small of stature) or people who have a propensity for anaphylactic shock reaction. Not all venomous snakes cause that type of reaction either. But Robert E. Arnold's, MD pocket book on "What to Do About Bites and Stings of Venomous Animals". This means it covers snakes, bees, wasps, spiders, etcetera. In the last few years the most perplexing problematic issue is dealing with arrachnids (spiders ) in general and especially the massive increase in the tick population. the sad part is the test for Lyme's disease is only about 50% accurate tending to say you have it when you don't. The antibiotics you would be given are not good for you and doctors fail often to prescribe followup pre and post biotics. Its possible that these products can even help with snake bites and significant amounts of antibiotics are often given with antivenoms. But few doctors really know much about snake bites themselves and how the antivenoms work so what they do is treat the symptoms as they occur instead of heading off the problems that the venoms cause ASAP.

  11. #26
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by tallyther View Post
    I just finish posting to this problem of snake bites and a pocket book source for what to do. It also contains sources for antivenoms based upon state location and what the snake or whatever was by name/species. For example no one has produced antivenom for corral snakes for years because its not cost effective. So no need to look. But many hospitals have gone to using just one antivenom when its possible to get the most appropriate one if you know the source and its timely. In many cases the antivenom is worse on the patient than the original venom. If available records are to be believed regarding venomous bites, most adults will survive whether they get the antivenom or not. But that is not true of small persons (children, low body mass, small of stature) or people who have a propensity for anaphylactic shock reaction. Not all venomous snakes cause that type of reaction either. But Robert E. Arnold's, MD pocket book on "What to Do About Bites and Stings of Venomous Animals". This means it covers snakes, bees, wasps, spiders, etcetera. In the last few years the most perplexing problematic issue is dealing with arrachnids (spiders ) in general and especially the massive increase in the tick population. the sad part is the test for Lyme's disease is only about 50% accurate tending to say you have it when you don't. The antibiotics you would be given are not good for you and doctors fail often to prescribe followup pre and post biotics. Its possible that these products can even help with snake bites and significant amounts of antibiotics are often given with antivenoms. But few doctors really know much about snake bites themselves and how the antivenoms work so what they do is treat the symptoms as they occur instead of heading off the problems that the venoms cause ASAP.

    Tally...Thanks for both of those posts. Great Information for Everyone! I'll definitely get the book... some areas here are having huge brown recluse spider issues with bites.

    A long story but a close friend was continually bit for 9hrs by a large BR spider that was in the sleeve of her tight fitting sweater and it hadn't died and couldn't get out when she put the sweater on...She spent 4 days in intensive care and a 5.5"x5.5"x2" deep area had to be removed from her bicep area. She still has problems from the venom that got in her body... she only weighs about 105lbs so she's pretty tiny. The weird thing was.. this was a brand new sweater that she bought to wear that night from a nice, well known store.... The infectious bite specialist said that a lot of Brown Recluse and other types of spiders are in new clothes, coming from the manufacturer or storage and shipping warehouses and everyone should always turn their clothes inside out and check before putting them on. New clothes or ones you already have. He also said to always get plastic sacks instead of paper or cardboard boxes from the store.

    A few things you said that I've seen... The guy that got bit twice by copperheads I mentioned in my post... He Did get the AV shot after the first bite and it almost killed him... reaction to the AV and anaphylactic shock. He got bit a second time and didn't get the AV... He had a lot of swelling on his hand where he got bit and his arm swelled too...he had a pretty rough month but recovered. He was about 55yrs old and healthy. The bites were about 2yrs apart.

    The other thing.. at a boat ramp and beach down in SWMO a 5yr old boy was playing by the water while his Mom was laying in the sun really close by and he found baby moccasins and put them in his swim trunk pockets thinking they were worms..he got continually bit in the upper leg by the baby snakes and died very quickly. He showed his Mom what he had found, she knew what they were and jerked his trunks off but it was just too much venom. So Sad.. they were about 30 minutes from help but the Drs said it wouldn't of mattered.

    I've never seen any of the Missouri Rattle Snakes in the water (thankfully) but I've seen the water moccasin balls a few times...I've only seen them once in a big lake..LOZ, but the strip pits are a different story...I never knew what caused them to ball like that and I steer clear of them if I see even a single one in the pit boat. I still see kids swimming in those pits..ugh. I hate those and the copperheads. The moccasins I've encountered seem to be more aggressive than the copperheads.

    The cedar chips I outlined the yard at the farm with... I have a split rail type of fence around the yard and I went on the outside of the fence, cutting down bushes and overhanging tree limbs... anything that could be used to avoid the cedar chips and spread and lined that way. I keep a big barrel of cedar chips at the end of the rock driveway and after driving the truck over it a couple times I replenish the line of chips. I do keep everything cut short and weed whacked. I'm probably over paranoid...but I don't want to get bit or my pets bit either.

    I honestly can't swear that the cedar chips are the reason I don't have snake, rodent, insect or spider issues but it makes me feel better that I've done all preventive measures that I can that I know about.

    If you have any other tips to keep away or get rid of spiders and snakes....Please post them!

    I wouldn't even go outside without a shotgun where Dirt's talking about! Too much infestation for me.

    I'm glad you came on with your expertise and said to look for the dens and other suggestions of attractants to be removed. All Good To Know.

    Kace
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  12. #27
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    I've never personally seen a poisonous snake... only venomous....

    They have to be breeding somewhere, under the driveway, a wood pile somewhere, brush laying on the ground etc. I live IN the woods, and almost never see snakes, because I make sure theres no brush or wood piles for them to breed in near the house.

    I hope you're able to get a handle on it, that is completely scary for a parent, and unfair to kids that don't get to play outside much because of it.

    Here's to hoping to hoping you get it ironed out
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  13. #28
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    If you get some guinea hens out there they will eat all the smaller ones and the ticks, go around the house from 50' out and make sure there are no brush piles, log piles, rock piles, etc. Nowhere to hide! Trim the trees up at least 6' high and no shrubs! Get rid of any outdoor water sources, bowls, feeders etc. No place to hide, no place to breed, nothing to eat!
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  14. #29
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    Get some Guinea Hens. Snakes will be gone.

 

 
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