Metal detectors will no longer find todays coins in the future....

[Dave Rishar]

"The reason that I'm requesting clarification is because people have been worried about that mark for around 1500 years now, and they haven't yet accurately described what it is."

Would you please accurately describe it for me, Dave??

I can't. I don't know what it is, but I do know what it is not. I can say that it has not been accurately described since the advent of Christianity, as every time that someone has said, "That's the mark of the beast!", they were wrong. For 1500 years, give or take.

The next person to call it out may be right, but if we go by the statistics, they'll probably be wrong.

 

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[Duckshot]

Everyone is right, but it’s still hard to believe that one day a child will say the words, “What was money?”

I said that to myself just the other day.

What money was is stuff with intristic value. What money is now is debt.

The thing about using debt for money is that there will always be more debt than dollar bills used to pay debt. Otherwise you would be broke as opposed to being in debt.

"In debt" is the way they like you.

 

[boogeyman]

Everyone is right, but it’s still hard to believe that one day a child will say the words, “What was money?”

What do you mean one day? Have you tried to pay in a grocery store with a half dollar coin? Ever try to pay with the gold colored dollars? I tried to dump some of those dollars at the grocery. The little clerk was totally befuddled!!! Told her to call the manager over to teach her. God as my witness! He says "Wow I've heard of these!" He was still hesitant about taking them, so I whipped out my best BS. Pulled out a receipt from another store, asked for a pen & told him I wanted the cashiers full name & his. He said why? Told him he was refusing to accept U.S. currency as legal tender which is a federal offense punishable by twenty years in Federal prison. I kid you not! His hands were visibly shaking when he gave me my $.18 change. I know where the employees park so when I saw him standing in the door watching me, I started taking pics of all the plates. Bet he was dampening his linens for a week or two.

So my friend, I think that day is a lot closer than you think.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

How's that Bitcoin treating you, Dave? Last time I looked, it had gone from $20,000 to $6,000 a bitcoin (whatever that's suppose to be). Also, over 800 different cryptos have gone belly up. You may think the dollar is worthless, but at least it still has some value. This crypto baloney is going to crash and burn soon, leaving thousands of suckers left holding the bag...

 

[Truth]

I said that to myself just the other day.

What money was is stuff with intristic value. What money is now is debt.

The thing about using debt for money is that there will always be more debt than dollar bills used to pay debt. Otherwise you would be broke as opposed to being in debt.

"In debt" is the way they like you.

My answer would be old money was little pieces of art that had a value and people trade this art for different things and might have even got smaller art in return and then the art got very ugly so no one wanted it anymore. So now we have a piece on plastic crap with your name on it. Congratulations

 

[tinpan]

Hi , So if I select the right banking options with low fees and charges .Don,t be a impulsive shopper and don,t use credit but direct debut from saving account on my smartphone . Wheres the debt or the phone zombie ? May I could use the word moron. Tp

 

[Stringtyer]

I have read with great interest the questions about the "mark of the beast" and, despite knowing better, have to comment. First, I have no idea what that really means but, in the spirit of this thread, I would suggest that the mark would be an RFID type chip embedded in a person's hand or forehead. Think of it as another sort of pay app (Apple wallet, etc.). If an external mark is required, I'd suggest it to be a Visa/MasterCard/AMEX logo.

As for things to dig, I agree that there will be things to detect regardless of the number of coins produced or whether coins are produced at all. I'm not going to worry about running out of things to find; I don't think the end of coinage, jewelry, and relics will occur before I shuffle off this mortal coil.

 

[Keppy]

Yup and we're all going to pay for everything with Bitcoin and all the other (soon to be worthless) cryptos. Don't hold your breath on this future.

There are still many people in this world who do not have a credit card or a checking account. And if they don't have those, they certainly don't own a smartphone! They live paycheck to paycheck and pay cash for everything. There's no way it will become a cashless society in the near future, so no need to worry about that.

I do have a credit card and a checking account... But myself and there is a lot of us out there that do not have a smart phone.. We do not need them to take our time away from us or to use when we are driving . I can find out any thing i want to know when i get home on the TV or my computer i do not need to know every thing right now this very moment. I can wait.

 

[Reanm8er]

Don't worry, by then we'll have plastic detectors! You'll be able to get lots of credits for recovered cards and cell phone/banks. They'll be digging up the old land fills for the stuff thrown away by our Grandparents just to perpetuate this culture a bit longer.

Trash to energy is real!

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Heck .. after WWIII .. the few left will be bartering with stones.

Apparently I will be rich. Missouri grows rocks like dandelions.

 

[Duckshot]

Hi , So if I select the right banking options with low fees and charges .Don,t be a impulsive shopper and don,t use credit but direct debut from saving account on my smartphone . Wheres the debt or the phone zombie ? May I could use the word moron. Tp

To paraphrase H. Lovecraft- "That is not broke which can eternal spend, and with strange accounting debt itself may end."

 

[Muddyhandz]

Or Paypal. Or swipe the buyer's credit card on your tablet or even phone. Or if you want to go really old school, you could take a personal check. That's not cash. How long have personal checks been around for now?

Don't trust personal checks? I don't blame you. I don't like those either. Money orders are probably safer...and those are also not cash, and how long have those been around for?

I don't understand why some folks think that cashless commerce is somehow new. Personal checks go back at least as far as the Roman Empire. They've existed in the US for...well, pretty much since the start. And do you know why some of those colonists were issuing and accepting the contemporary equivalent of personal checks? Because they were more convenient than cash.

No one uses (or accepts) personal checks anymore.
I spent good money a few years ago on my check book from the crooked bank only to have them sit in a drawer collecting dust.
My landlord complained that I was the only one using checks and I have been paying him electronically for over a year now.
I highly doubt a stranger at a garage sale will accept your check. Money orders cost a fortune and were never an option for me.
None of that is "more convenient than cash." Neither is plastic as I stand waiting for their card to approve in line at the store.
How many times the card gets rejected but my cash transaction goes through quicker if I sometimes "help the cashier with the math."


Very. What does one buy for $0.25 these days?

Go to a yard sale and you'll find lots of items for a quarter. I often find heavily tarnished silver jewelry for 25 cents.
Yes, it would be stupid not to give them a quarter and pay for it electronically.


Groomed for what?


Pretty obvious as to what I meant by "groomed."
Financial institutions want you to pay for everything with plastic or electronically so that they can get a cut on every transaction.
Ever get charged a fee for using straight cash?



And what does that cost the person using the credit card? We already know that they get the points and rewards, but what does it actually cost them, assuming that they pay their balance off in full each month?



Ironically, cashiers dealing with cash are probably the last remaining people in the developed world that have an actual need to know how to do simple math. (And really, they shouldn't. The register ought to be doing that for them.) I've argued before, and will argue again, that it should be dropped from the curriculum in public school. It's an obsolete skill for anyone other than a specialist.

Simple math applies to a lot more than just cash and should not be phased out of learning institutions. Are you serious?

There is always a certain amount of irony involved when someone gets on the internet and threatens to drop off the grid. (Again.)

Dude, you don't who you're talking too! I've lived off the grid before and yearn to do so again. Not a threat and not ironic.
Notice my slow post count?
That's because I turn on my PC in the morning while I have breakfast and coffee and then I shut it off until the next morning!
I hate social media and T-net is as far as I go for posting anything since the start of the new millennia.
Why do people now have to be connected to the internet and each other 24/7?
To the point where they all walk the streets holding their phones to their faces like........
ZOMBIES!!!!

Well, been on this computer too long. Time to shut 'er down!

 

[tinpan]

Apparently I will be rich. Missouri grows rocks like dandelions.

I got plenty of dust and flies . Want to trade ? Tp

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Hmm...I got flies but we are having quite a dust shortage due to the rain.

 

[fistfulladirt]

I have read with great interest the questions about the "mark of the beast" and, despite knowing better, have to comment. First, I have no idea what that really means but, in the spirit of this thread, I would suggest that the mark would be an RFID type chip embedded in a person's hand or forehead. Think of it as another sort of pay app (Apple wallet, etc.). If an external mark is required, I'd suggest it to be a Visa/MasterCard/AMEX logo.

As for things to dig, I agree that there will be things to detect regardless of the number of coins produced or whether coins are produced at all. I'm not going to worry about running out of things to find; I don't think the end of coinage, jewelry, and relics will occur before I shuffle off this mortal coil.

If you carry a card, you carry the mark. Many of us do.

 

[Plumbata]

The primary difference I see between fiat cash and fiat digital currency is the ability of hackers, malevolent governments or institutions, power failures or natural disasters to remove access to one's money. We already see the beginning of such abuse, with individuals being financially de-platformed because their opinions conflict with the agendas of the institutions or the mobs of screeching internet harpies which will work tirelessly to ruin the lives of anyone they don't like.

With China's Orwellian "Social Credit Score" system soon to be implemented, and many big-tech firms and western Gov'ts observing and drooling at the prospects of strangling the last breath out of Lady Liberty in their slow and methodical quest for total control over the bodies and minds of their own subjects, I expect that the abuses will become more common and more outrageous as this foul trend progresses.

 

[Dave Rishar]

How's that Bitcoin treating you, Dave?

I don't own any BTC, so I can't give you a good answer to that.

Last time I looked, it had gone from $20,000 to $6,000 a bitcoin (whatever that's suppose to be). Also, over 800 different cryptos have gone belly up.

And yet today I used both my debit card and my Paypal account to remove bits from one file (my bank account) into another file (someone else's bank account). Those bits represented Monopoly money. And you know what? Those suckers actually accepted my ones and zeroes masquerading as pieces of paper in exchange for actual goods. It actually boggles my mind when I think about it. (It also shows that crypto is not necessary for cashless transactions. It's merely a more efficient way to do so, but the old tools still do the job.)

You may think the dollar is worthless, but at least it still has some value.

Incorrect. It has perceived worth. That worth is whatever we all agree that it is. It has no inherent worth, but as long as we all agree that $1.25 buys you a loaf of bread at Safeway, $1.25 is worth a loaf of bread.

This crypto baloney is going to crash and burn soon, leaving thousands of suckers left holding the bag...

Maybe. Microsoft still accepts Bitcoin, so I'd argue that it's not totally dead. I think that the banks are still screwing around with Ripple, which while technically a crypto token is not the sort of one that most crypto advocates want. A lot of other ones are basically valueless, but I don't think that more than a few of those were ever anything other than a get-rich-quick scheme centered on an ICO. As I believe that I've said in the past, there isn't room for 1,000 crypto tokens. There's room for one, maybe two or three. The arguments against BTC are that it's outdated technology, but it's also been around the longest, has the biggest brand recognition, and stands a good chance of surviving if any of them do. That would be a shame, but it's still better than what it's replacing, and if history has taught us anything at all, it's not always the best product that takes over the market.

But we don't actually need crypto to go cashless. We were able to do that before crypto was a thing - it just makes it easier and more private. (More like cash, you might say.) There are still plenty of other ways to buy things without cash.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Incorrect. It has perceived worth. That worth is whatever we all agree that it is. It has no inherent worth, but as long as we all agree that $1.25 buys you a loaf of bread at Safeway, $1.25 is worth a loaf of bread.

Correct, so until we all agree that Bitcoin has actual worth (which will never happen), it's just a Ponzi scheme.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Due to the misattributed quotes, this one might be a little tricky for me to respond to, so please bear with me.

No one uses (or accepts) personal checks anymore.

Believe it or not, I do. I don't trust the city with my credit card and they don't take Paypal, so once every two months I send them a check for the water and sewerage. If I'm going to be out of town for longer than that, I overpay sufficiently to keep everything working until I get home.

In this case, the lack of speed isn't a problem - I'm not holding up people at the checkout line, for instance. It's a bit of a pain in the ass for the city to process, but they're a bit of pain in my ass with their overpriced and underperforming sewer system, so I'm perfectly fine with sharing a little pain with them.

Another time that I've used checks is paying for NFA tax stamps. The BATF won't actually accept anything other than checks. Ridiculous, right? There's actually a workaround for that depending on who your Class III dealer is, but the takeaway here is that there's not only people who accept and use personal checks, but there are actually a few people (and at least one government agency) that insist upon them.

How many times the card gets rejected but my cash transaction goes through quicker if I sometimes "help the cashier with the math."

I suppose that's another upside and downside of using a card - the card may not always work (cash almost always does), but nobody has to do any counting either. Theoretically the cards will improve. Will the person counting out your change improve?

Go to a yard sale and you'll find lots of items for a quarter. I often find heavily tarnished silver jewelry for 25 cents.

I've been to a number of yard sales, but I've never seen anything for $0.25 that I wanted, certainly not silver. Apparently we don't get those sort of yard sales around here.

Financial institutions want you to pay for everything with plastic or electronically so that they can get a cut on every transaction.
Ever get charged a fee for using straight cash?

I've never been charged a fee for using cash, no. (Although I have been charged a fee for withdrawing cash.) And yes, some businesses offer cash discounts, but the majority seem not to. At that point, it simply becomes a matter of what's more convenient for me. Cash is not convenient over the internet. Electronic payments are. People pay for convenience.

Simple math applies to a lot more than just cash and should not be phased out of learning institutions. Are you serious?

Completely. How many people actually need to know how to do arithmetic? I know how to do it and I even do it on a regular basis, but I don't need to know how to do it. My computer does it. My phone does it. My tablet does it. Some watches do it. If I had to be in some sort of high security area where I couldn't have those things (and sometimes I do have to be in such a place), I could go old school and bring a calculator with me, which also does it. We're literally surrounded by electronics that can do arithmetic, so why bother teaching people something that most of them won't need to know how to do? (And yes, I know that during some existential crisis where the power grid is down and the Russians are launching nukes, those electronics may not be available. However, I'd argue that arithmetic would be the least of my worries under a survival scenario.)

Quick sidebar on this: today's American public education system is basically an extension/modification of the same education system that we were using in 1900 - namely, a multiyear program designed to turn children into productive adults. Productive adults at that time were factory workers, and that's what we trained our children to do. I'd argue that children today don't need to know skills that would be useful to a factory worker living in an era without personal electronic devices (arithmetic, rote memorization of facts, the cursive alphabet) and instead would be far better served by being taught skills that are actually useful in today's society, and will likely remain useful for some time to come: proper grammar, critical thinking, touch typing...hell, even how to phrase a Google search term properly.

But yes, I'm serious. Even as one of the few people that does arithmetic on a regular basis, I'm forced to admit that I don't really need to know how to do it. If I didn't know how to do it, it wouldn't affect my job. Not having a working knowledge of the English language and being able to draft an effective business email certainly would have a negative effect on my job, but I wasn't taught how to do that until I was an adult. If only they'd taught me that as a child...

Dude, you don't who you're talking too! I've lived off the grid before and yearn to do so again. Not a threat and not ironic.

Few of us know who we're talking to. And yes, it is a bit ironic, but I wouldn't get too wound up over some stranger's opinion on the internet. It's just the internet.

Notice my slow post count?

Interesting that you went there. If we were to average post count over time of membership on Tnet, you'd actually be a more prolific poster than I am. Does this mean that I've spent significant periods of time off the grid?

Why do people now have to be connected to the internet and each other 24/7?

Because the manufacturers of portable electronic devices understand that convenience sells, so that's what they peddle. They're actually remarkably clever.

Speaking for myself, having access to the majority of mankind's accumulated knowledge with a few keystrokes is undeniably attractive. Communicating with people all around the country is also interesting for the sake of perspective. Reading about what somebody had for lunch is less interesting, but that's the internet...it's not just about the cat pictures.

 

[Muddyhandz]

Dave, I don't want to add anymore "misattributed quotes" as these posts are getting big so I'll just respond in general.
Not getting wound up but merely responded as an exclamation as I'm not makings threats to leave society.
I already left society before and will leave again but I don't have to explain that to "Some stranger on the internet."

Didn't bring up my post count to compete with you as I wasn't even looking at your post count.
I mentioned it as I've lost a few friends here because they thought I was ignoring them but in actuality, I just wasn't here.
But none of this has anything to do with the topic and I have no interest in debating any of it.
You may want a cashless society and for simple math to be scrapped from schools but the bottom line here on a metal detecting forum is this......

We don't want to see coins eliminated! We enjoy going out and finding them and at the end of the day do you know what we do?
We use our basic math skills to count our coin totals!
Happy Hunting!