Question on Treasure Hunting Club Ethics

[Ol' Kentuck]

Was checking out some of tha treasure hunting club links here on Treasurenet and had a question.

Is it common now for tha officers of these clubs, like a President fer instance, to compete for tha prizes that Detector Vendors donate? I was always under the impression that club officers were exempt from winning prizes. Every club I've ever been a member of prohibited officers from winning tha prizes they solicit from tha Vendors for competitions. I was surprised ta see that a club listed here allows them to win prizes, in fact, tha officer of tha club in question seems ta win most of them from lookin over his site. Is that ethical?

And to tha Donating Vendors, would ye still be donating if ye knew yer donations were goin straight to the club President who asked ye fer tha donation?

Or am I jest gettin too dang old and cranky?

Seriously tho, I always thought tha idea was to encourage more people ta join and participate in our hobby, not corner tha market fer our own benefit. What's yer opinions?

 

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[Truth]

I see what you’re saying it’s like your boss getting “Employee of the Month”

 

[flinthunter]

I don't see any reason club officers shouldn't compete for prizes. I don't see any conflict of interest if contests or hunts are run fairly. Our club has always let the officers compete for prizes. I have been past president and am the current secretary in our club. The only conflict comes if that person plants the tokens for prizes in a seeded hunt. In that case we have two people planting coins and tokens, both on different halves of the hunt area and during the hunt they are only allowed to detect on the half they didn't plant.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Ethical? We don't need no steenking ethics!

This has been going on since the beginning of organized - whatever. I have known guys that started clubs just to make money. Seeded hunts where the tokens for the grand prizes never made it into the ground. Instead, they go straight into a shill's pocket. Metal detecting is not a team sport. Way too many blowhard know-it-all bloviators.

Join a club at your own risk. My apologies to the blowhard know-it-all bloviators that will now remind us that "not all clubs are like that."

 

[Truth]

Ethical? We don't need no steenking ethics!

This has been going on since the beginning of organized - whatever. I have known guys that started clubs just to make money. Seeded hunts where the tokens for the grand prizes never made it into the ground. Instead, they go straight into a shill's pocket. Metal detecting is not a team sport. Way too many blowhard know-it-all bloviators.

Join a club at your own risk. My apologies to the blowhard know-it-all bloviators that will now remind us that "not all clubs are like that."

Never joined a group for anything always been more of a lone wolf or a friend kind of guy. I joined one down here when I started detecting for $40 and went to one meeting too much like a douche fraternity.

**No offense to douche fraternities you guys are awesome [emoji41]

 

[Kace]

Was checking out some of tha treasure hunting club links here on Treasurenet and had a question.

Is it common now for tha officers of these clubs, like a President fer instance, to compete for tha prizes that Detector Vendors donate? I was always under the impression that club officers were exempt from winning prizes. Every club I've ever been a member of prohibited officers from winning tha prizes they solicit from tha Vendors for competitions. I was surprised ta see that a club listed here allows them to win prizes, in fact, tha officer of tha club in question seems ta win most of them from lookin over his site. Is that ethical?

And to tha Donating Vendors, would ye still be donating if ye knew yer donations were goin straight to the club President who asked ye fer tha donation?

Or am I jest gettin too dang old and cranky?

Seriously tho, I always thought tha idea was to encourage more people ta join and participate in our hobby, not corner tha market fer our own benefit. What's yer opinions?

NO...it's not ethical or right to solicit and receive donations as an officer of a club for any activity where there's things to be found, prizes to be awarded or tickets or numbers to be drawn whether it's bingo at the KoC, VFW, Eagles etc, door prizes, metal detecting hunts, hole in one, closest to the hole or longest drive at a golf tournament and have the officers of the club, tournament organizers and any of the above, spouse, immediate family or anyone living at the same address as an officer of a club or organization be eligible to win anything.

What Is ethical and acceptable is that officers and organizers of clubs or organizations recuse themselves from any prizes and use funds from yearly dues to once a year to go to a Nice dinner at a restaurant that is Usually voted on by the members of the club as a show of appreciation. You Never see a Company Picnic where owners or upper management win any drawings or door prizes and that's because it's too easily rigged, just like social and hobby club activities are.

Companies typically give bonuses to Management, whether that's cash or trips, sometimes based on individual or company performance and sometimes based on positions held. Board of Directors are even excluded.

And No.. I would not donate anything where officers or organizers were eligible to win... except longest drive, hole in one and closest to the hole I have because that's been done at the end of the tournament where there's been everyone standing around watching the organizers... Where I would be okay with this if you're talking about a seeded Detecting Hunt is if any prize token is found by an officer of the club...That tickets for All Participants be put in the hat or whatever and drawn and whatever prize(s) tokens an officer found would be given to the ticket holder(s) drawn afterwards. I do think officers of clubs should be allowed to participate...just not win in those situations.

The problem is that while there's many honest organizers and officers who would never think about doing anything shady..a few bad apples ruined that. Even fishing tournament participants are watched now because a few bad participants including organizers got caught putting live boxes out and filling them with bass and crappie caught earlier, or having someone bring them large fish and they met them in a cove. The fish have to be alive when brought in for measurements for the same cheating reasons. Most fishing tournaments have watch boats for each participating boat and that's even drawn at random...sometimes the lake and/or put-in isn't even announced til the morning of the tournament. Pro tournaments are stricter.

If safeguards to potential cheating aren't in place, donors will become scarce.. quickly. One phone call to a sponsor/donor that an officer or officers won a big prize is all it takes to end sponsorship and donations. No matter what the activity is.

Just My Opinion...

Kace

 

[Kace]

I don't see any reason club officers shouldn't compete for prizes. I don't see any conflict of interest if contests or hunts are run fairly. Our club has always let the officers compete for prizes. I have been past president and am the current secretary in our club. The only conflict comes if that person plants the tokens for prizes in a seeded hunt. In that case we have two people planting coins and tokens, both on different halves of the hunt area and during the hunt they are only allowed to detect on the half they didn't plant.

Flint...IF it's fair and honest is the thing. It sounds like you have thought about trying to make it fair, but not Everyone Is Honest...I've seen Easter Egg hunts where the children of the organizers 'Found' the Eggs that had the cash in them. Coincidence

Any organized hunt is set up ahead of time... whoever does it knows where things are... even if an officer 'picks' someone else to hide things.

It just has the potential to get shady.

I'm in No Way saying All clubs or officers/organizers are shady...Just that the potential for cheating is there. Officers and immediate family recusing themselves from prize money or prizes is the only way to insure fairness... or to be accused of doing something shady. That's All.

Kace

 

[against the wind]

Ethical? We don't need no steenking ethics!

This has been going on since the beginning of organized - whatever. I have known guys that started clubs just to make money. Seeded hunts where the tokens for the grand prizes never made it into the ground. Instead, they go straight into a shill's pocket. Metal detecting is not a team sport. Way too many blowhard know-it-all bloviators.

Join a club at your own risk. My apologies to the blowhard know-it-all bloviators that will now remind us that "not all clubs are like that."

Thank you Terry, I have witnessed a few things first hand at club meetings that have me leaning towards the door.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

I see what you’re saying it’s like your boss getting “Employee of the Month”

That's exactly what I thought.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Ethical? We don't need no steenking ethics!

This has been going on since the beginning of organized - whatever. I have known guys that started clubs just to make money. Seeded hunts where the tokens for the grand prizes never made it into the ground. Instead, they go straight into a shill's pocket. Metal detecting is not a team sport. Way too many blowhard know-it-all bloviators.

Join a club at your own risk. My apologies to the blowhard know-it-all bloviators that will now remind us that "not all clubs are like that."

I have ta agree with ye on tha " blowhard know-it-all bloviators ". Jest so happens tha officer in question fits that there description perfectly. Hell, he even went on other forums bragging about it. Now he's managed ta get some very expensive detector equipment donated fer a hunt he's been advertizin hot and heavy "to promote new members to join". Wanna bet who is gonna win that equipment?

I used ta support our local club with a lot of donations, they were real good at helping kids get started in detecting and putting on shows and hunts fer tha public. But we had a couple of bad officers ruin it fer everbody and tha club went to hell in a handbasket. I figgered at tha time it was jest an isolated event, but now I'm wonderin if it's even worth donating anymore if all tha clubs are like this now. Sad ta see it happen.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

NO...it's not ethical or right to solicit and receive donations as an officer of a club for any activity where there's things to be found, prizes to be awarded or tickets or numbers to be drawn whether it's bingo at the KoC, VFW, Eagles etc, door prizes, metal detecting hunts, hole in one, closest to the hole or longest drive at a golf tournament and have the officers of the club, tournament organizers and any of the above, spouse, immediate family or anyone living at the same address as an officer of a club or organization be eligible to win anything.

What Is ethical and acceptable is that officers and organizers of clubs or organizations recuse themselves from any prizes and use funds from yearly dues to once a year to go to a Nice dinner at a restaurant that is Usually voted on by the members of the club as a show of appreciation. You Never see a Company Picnic where owners or upper management win any drawings or door prizes and that's because it's too easily rigged, just like social and hobby club activities are.

Companies typically give bonuses to Management, whether that's cash or trips, sometimes based on individual or company performance and sometimes based on positions held. Board of Directors are even excluded.

And No.. I would not donate anything where officers or organizers were eligible to win... except longest drive, hole in one and closest to the hole I have because that's been done at the end of the tournament where there's been everyone standing around watching the organizers... Where I would be okay with this if you're talking about a seeded Detecting Hunt is if any prize token is found by an officer of the club...That tickets for All Participants be put in the hat or whatever and drawn and whatever prize(s) tokens an officer found would be given to the ticket holder(s) drawn afterwards. I do think officers of clubs should be allowed to participate...just not win in those situations.

The problem is that while there's many honest organizers and officers who would never think about doing anything shady..a few bad apples ruined that. Even fishing tournament participants are watched now because a few bad participants including organizers got caught putting lives boxes out and filling them with bass and crappie caught earlier, or having someone bring them large fish and they met them in a cove. The fish have to be alive when brought in for measurements for the same cheating reasons. Most fishing tournaments have watch boats for each participating boat and that's even drawn at random...sometimes the lake and/or put-in isn't even announced til the morning of the tournament. Pro tournaments are stricter.

If safeguards to potential cheating aren't in place, donors will become scarce.. quickly. One phone call to a sponsor/donor that an officer or officers won a big prize is all it takes to end sponsorship and donations. No matter what the activity is.

Just My Opinion...

Kace

Ye hit the nail right on tha head here with this post, and I agree with ye 100%. Ever club I ever been in did it that way, it was jest tha right thing ta do. Thank ye fer sayin it much better than I ever could.

 

[A2coins]

Hes a member just like you. but has taken on more responsibilities so people like you and others can have a club that functions well and is fun to be in . Why should he be excluded from these kind of things unless hes a cheater and if you feel that way why keep him as president. your being petty You could be pres but not get to participate sound fair to you........,Really

 

[Kace]

Hes a member just like you. but has taken on more responsibilities so people like you and others can have a club that functions well and is fun to be in . Why should he be excluded from these kind of things unless hes a cheater and if you feel that way why keep him as president. your being petty You could be pres but not get to participate sound fair to you........,Really

That's why club members who've paid dues send the board or officers out for a nice dinner as a show of appreciation.

And..If it's a club where officers do not recuse themselves from prizes that have been donated...if an officer happens to find a prize token in a seeded hunt, tickets are put in the hat and drawn by a participant or spectator of the hunt that isn't an officer of the club and ALL participants are equally eligible to win the prizes...

It just keeps everyone honest and Protects Officers of clubs from any accusations of shady shenanigans. That's All.

Donors and Sponsors will become scarce for Every Kind of Club if it's the board or officers who win the prizes or cash they donate Unless everything is very transparent to All.

Volunteer Officers of Any Club Should Be Shown Appreciation For The Work They Do...Absolutely!

Kace

 

[Nitric]

It's called "benefits", it happens in all types of organizations. Do I think it's fair? Depends on what side of the coin I'm on!!

I do think it's poor.....Move? If I'm a club officer or organizer I wouldn't want to pull any of the resources that could be used as a draw for myself. That's just my way of thinking when wanting too try to build.

What your talking about happens on all levels and organizations...The product is donated for exposure, as long as it's exposed? Most of the time the donators don't care who wins it. As long as the advertising is done.

I see your frustration, and I'd be a liar if I said I've never benefited from "knowing someone" in other types of clubs...And..Since that has happened? I can't be upset when it happens for someone else...Just the way it is..Whether it's right or wrong. If I ran something I would exempt myself, it's hard to say that you would never play favorites though, sometimes there are people that would really benefit and really appreciate the item that couldn't other wise afford it so you give them a ..."hand", then you know there are other guys that would just sell it if won because they have everything....That kind of thing happens too and I have mixed feelings on that. That did happen for me when I was the youngest member of a club it helped me out big time!

I've never belonged to a detecting club I'm just thinking about other clubs that I have belonged.

 

[Holyground]

I hate crowds. Can you just mail me my prize?

 

[against the wind]

Thanks for all the comments guys. Instead of just quitting, I agreed to work with another new member to work towards putting together some guidelines that will address some of the descrepancies that we observed. "The old boy's club" are opposed to the mention of "RULES"
We were very careful not mention the word "rules". After 3 months of discussion and tweaking the guidelines, the president finally insisted that we put it to a vote to accept or reject these guidelines. The vote was 6 to 6 leaving the president to be the tie breaker. He voted to adopt the guidelines. Well that didn't go over well with the "OLD BOY'S CLUB" at least 3 of them announced that they will be resigning. That includes the Secretary and the Treasurer. These 2 officers support the resistance to change and don'treally do any metal detecting which means that they don't find anything to enter in the monthly "Finds" meeting. Then the guy who was responsible for entering a coin in the monthly competition that wasn't eligible, made a motion, that was voted on and adopted. He asked the club to eliminate the awarding of a Mercury dime in recognition of the monthly finds.
He suggested that we have a "Show and Tell" instead.
One of the exciting parts of the monthly meeting is the awarding of a Mercury Dime in recognition of the month's finds. We have a on line club forum that already serves as a "Show and Tell" This guy is oblivious to the fact that his illegal entry is what started this mess in the first place.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

I went to one club hunt in '84 in Monroe, MI

I have zero desire to go to another - it was an "Old Boys Club". I didn't even feel welcome.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

It's called "benefits", it happens in all types of organizations. Do I think it's fair? Depends on what side of the coin I'm on!!

I do think it's poor.....Move? If I'm a club officer or organizer I wouldn't want to pull any of the resources that could be used as a draw for myself. That's just my way of thinking when wanting too try to build.

What your talking about happens on all levels and organizations...The product is donated for exposure, as long as it's exposed? Most of the time the donators don't care who wins it. As long as the advertising is done.

I see your frustration, and I'd be a liar if I said I've never benefited from "knowing someone" in other types of clubs...And..Since that has happened? I can't be upset when it happens for someone else...Just the way it is..Whether it's right or wrong. If I ran something I would exempt myself, it's hard to say that you would never play favorites though, sometimes there are people that would really benefit and really appreciate the item that couldn't other wise afford it so you give them a ..."hand", then you know there are other guys that would just sell it if won because they have everything....That kind of thing happens too and I have mixed feelings on that. That did happen for me when I was the youngest member of a club it helped me out big time!

I've never belonged to a detecting club I'm just thinking about other clubs that I have belonged.

Yessir, I totally git what yer sayin an 'preciate yer honesty. I guess I'm jest too old fashioned and have a code of ethics that're no longer in fashion I reckon. Glad ta see I'm not tha only one though.

As fer tha Donators and advertising, I ain't so sure they would agree about that "exposure".

Jest seen where roughly 50 people showed up for this "advertised" hunt. (And half of those were already club members). I ain't no math genus, but I figger that means tha donating Vender's advertising ($700 donated equipment) brought tha Club about 25 new hunt attendees @ $25 a pop, some of which may or may not join tha club later and pay an additional membership fee.

Club Hunt Fee $25 x 25 new attendees = $625 for tha club
Possible new memberships est. 2 x $25 = $ 50 for tha club

Benefit to tha Club TOTAL = $675 in fees for tha club (After deducting all the costs for hosting tha Hunt, tha club actually made very little)

Benefit to tha Club President (free donated detector he just happens ta win) = $700


Now, let's figger up tha benefit fer the Vendor. Their $700 donation bought 25 "lookers". That's $28 advertising dollars cost per person. How many of these people ye reckon are gonna rush out and buy that Vendors product since they didn't win one?

My guess is zero. Especially after having ta listen to that same Club President loudly bashin expensive detectors and proclaiming to anyone within earshot that all ye need is a cheapo detector and tha "know how" ta use it. Apparently he's only a Salesman when hittin up vendors for donations.

Vendor Advertising Dollars Spent (Donation) = $700

Benefit to tha Vendor = $0


Don't take no brainiac ta figger out who came out ahead on that deal.

All I'm sayin is that its a rotten shame for members and vendors alike when clubs are run like this. I know I won't be donating or joining without checkin up on tha club officers, myself. Easy enough ta do when everbody is on Fakebook nowdays.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Hes a member just like you. but has taken on more responsibilities so people like you and others can have a club that functions well and is fun to be in . Why should he be excluded from these kind of things unless hes a cheater and if you feel that way why keep him as president. your being petty You could be pres but not get to participate sound fair to you........,Really

Not a member, wrong state.

Sorry fer tha short reply feller, but both tha rules an tha shock collar I'm wearin prevent me from answerin as I would like. That's what happens when ye take on more reponsibility so people like you an others can have a club that functions well and is fun ta be in.

 

[pulltabfelix]

Was checking out some of tha treasure hunting club links here on Treasurenet and had a question.

Is it common now for tha officers of these clubs, like a President fer instance, to compete for tha prizes that Detector Vendors donate? I was always under the impression that club officers were exempt from winning prizes. Every club I've ever been a member of prohibited officers from winning tha prizes they solicit from tha Vendors for competitions. I was surprised ta see that a club listed here allows them to win prizes, in fact, tha officer of tha club in question seems ta win most of them from lookin over his site. Is that ethical?

And to tha Donating Vendors, would ye still be donating if ye knew yer donations were goin straight to the club President who asked ye fer tha donation?

Or am I jest gettin too dang old and cranky?

Seriously tho, I always thought tha idea was to encourage more people ta join and participate in our hobby, not corner tha market fer our own benefit. What's yer opinions?

there is only one club that I would join. the D.M.D.C. or Danbury Metal Detecting Club, it is 100% ethical.