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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddsPoint View Post
    I don't believe the "6th great extinction" stuff. Extinction rate 1000X baseline? Please name three or four species that have gone extinct in the last 10 yrs. I'll bet you can't. Gary
    1. Pinta Island Tortoise, June 24, 2012
    2. West African Black Rhinocero 2011
    3. Alaotra Grebe, 2010
    4. Caribbean Monk Seal 2008
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusrat View Post
    1. Pinta Island Tortoise, June 24, 2012
    2. West African Black Rhinocero 2011
    3. Alaotra Grebe, 2010
    4. Caribbean Monk Seal 2008
    Thank you cactusrat!!

    Kindest regards,
    Kantuck

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddsPoint View Post
    I don't believe the "6th great extinction" stuff. Extinction rate 1000X baseline? Please name three or four species that have gone extinct in the last 10 yrs. I'll bet you can't. Gary
    I’m gonna level with you Gary. Your arrogance really ticked me off. Please do not make assumptions about me or make bets about what I can or cannot do.

    Naming species that have gone extinct in the last 10 years, as you suggested, is extremely short-sighted when arguing about aspects of an evolutionary or geologic timescale. It’s like saying, “…nothing went extinct in the last 2 seconds, so extinctions are not occurring. It was cold yesterday so the climate isn’t changing.” It is also actually a quite difficult challenge that you have posed, as it is nearly impossible to prove that a species has gone extinct (like Bigfoots… or is it Bigfeet? … it’s hard to prove that Bigfoots do not exist because believers can always say that you weren’t looking in the right place at the right time whereas one can easily show that mosquitoes still exist… but I digress). However, I accept your challenge and my answers are at the bottom of this response but first I want to jump onto this here pedestal so that I can throw a little education your way…

    What I find truly disheartening is that people will have a heart attack and call 911 on their cell phone (developed by scientists). The signal is transmitted to towers and connects via satellites and algorithms (also developed by scientists) to a responder who sends in the EMTs. Then they get into an automobile or helicopter made of metals and plastics, powered by the internal combustion engine and electronics (all of which were also developed by scientists). When they arrive at the hospital, they’re placed under fluorescent lights and saved by medical technologies (developed by scientists). They pick up their cell phone and call friends and relatives and talk about how “lucky” they are. They trust all of this stuff to work, even though they little understand the how and why. Light bulbs, refrigerators, airplanes, laptops, cell phones, microwave ovens, televisions, cameras, etc… all of the things that we take for granted every day were developed by scientists. However, when scientists say that the climate is changing or that human actions are having a negative impact on the natural world, all of a sudden, those scientists are liars with an agenda… scientists who have studied and devoted their lives to observation, data collection and analysis, and experimentation. So what I want to say to all of the people like you, Gary, is this: Until you get out and take some ice cores from Antarctica and study the composition of the gases trapped in the air bubbles, until you get out and band birds, or do population surveys and publish your results, you should either keep your mouth shut and accept the findings of the scientists and follow their recommendations or show the world your evidence and publish your results to prove to us how we’re all idiots. Here’s a fun fact for all the climate change deniers: As the earth spins on its axis as it revolves around the sun, it wobbles a little bit. Recently, the High-Q teams at NASA and NOAA showed that the earth’s wobble on its axis has changed due to climate change. One might ask… “How is that possible?” It turns out that enough ice has melted from glaciers and northern latitudes that the distribution of the earth’s water weigh has changed enough to affect Earth’s wobble. Interesting. And yes, the melting of ice is contributing to sea level rise, which can be measured by… Gary? That’s right… those cool satellites that the scientists built for us. But again, I digress.

    Back to species extinctions. After a certain amount of time, it becomes accepted by the public that a species is truly extinct (e.g. the dodo, Tasmanian tiger, the Great Auk, Carolina parakeet, Ivory-billed woodpecker?, passenger pigeon, Stellar’s sea cow, et al.). The “1000x” baseline rate is based upon estimations of speciation (i.e. new species formation) vs. species loss (i.e. extinction). In a static or semi-static ecosystem, one would expect the rate of speciation and species loss to be nearly equal. Since our ecosystem (Earth) is highly dynamic, there are times when speciation exceeds species loss and vice-versa. Currently, species loss greatly exceeds speciation and in the absence of meteor impacts, excessive volcanic activity, and abnormal solar activity, the most likely explanation is human activity.

    In addition to the 4 examples that cactusrat provided (thanks again!), there are dozens, and likely hundreds of obscure plants, insects, animals, fungi, bacteria, etc. that are not “megafauna” and are known only by their Latin binomials and are entirely unknown by the general public and have gone extinct in the past 10 years. Below are six+ extinctions (again, "megafauna") that are known to the public. However, you’ll note that the year of extinction is speculation, based upon last sighting, and I admit that some of them may still be out there and will soon be extinct, which is why there is a question mark after the year. Some of these are on the IUCN list, some are derived from other sources. I also included the others because it is worth reminding people of our past mistakes so that we, hopefully, do not repeat them. You’ll note that cactusrat’s and my examples are all terrestrial and avian species. I cannot even fathom the extinctions occurring around the world’s oceans, especially the coral reefs, which are currently undergoing unprecedented levels of “bleaching” or die-off. Anyway, here's a list of recent extinctions, but again, the timeline is a little questionable. Now Gary, please prove me wrong and show me that they haven't gone extinct. I'll bet you can't.

    1. Mt. Lewis lemuroid ringtail possums, a subspecies of lemuroid ringtail possum that exhibits a pure white coat (2005?)
    Cause: Climate change — localized heatwave
    Once abundant, spotlight searches could usually find one individual/hour. In 2005, a heatwave hit Mt. Lewis in Australia and in the 3 years following 2005, no individuals were located. In 2009, 3 of the more common, brown lemuroids were sighted on Mt. Lewis. Those were the last sightings. Not necessarily within your 10-year challenge, but noteworthy.

    2. Pyrenean Ibex (2000?) Again, not within your 10-year challenge, but noteworthy because the cause is largely unknown.

    3. Christmas Island Pipistrelle (2009?)

    4. Bramble Cay melomys (2016?)

    5. Cryptic Treehunter (?)

    6. Poo-uli (2004?)

    7. New Claedonian Lorikeet (last sighted in 1987)

    8. Javan Lapwing (1994?)

    9. Pernambuco Pygmy Owl (2001?)

    10. Glaucous Macaw (1998?)

    Kantuck
    Last edited by Kantuckkeean; Oct 16, 2018 at 01:24 PM.

  4. #19
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    Thanks for the intel. I was assuming it was an invasive of some sort, with the way it was spread. Seems to be common in this area and not others. I mostly run into lilac, which there was also plenty of.

    I actually just found this at another site today. All the sitesI've seen it at date from the early 1900's is all, the older places are only lilac so far.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantuckkeean View Post
    Thank you cactusrat!!

    Kindest regards,
    Kantuck
    Your welcome.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusrat View Post
    Your welcome.
    You actually named two examples that I intended to use. I still recall when I read that Lonesome George passed away.

    Kindest regards,
    Kantuck
    Last edited by Kantuckkeean; Oct 16, 2018 at 09:10 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantuckkeean View Post
    I’m gonna level with you Gary. Your arrogance really ticked me off.
    Kantuck

    Doomsday! Looks like we're all screwed. I'm still skeptical, but thanks for the post. Gary

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddsPoint View Post
    Doomsday! Looks like we're all screwed. I'm still skeptical, but thanks for the post. Gary
    Healthy skepticism is a good thing Gary. However, when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary of what one wants to believe, the head must finally accept what the heart does not want to believe. Spreading misinformation or issuing outright denials without providing evidence to the contrary, misconstruing data to confuse an issue, and ignoring evidence are not only disheartening and counter-productive, but frankly, dangerous. The climate is warming and we are currently losing species and biodiversity at rates not seen in human history. Those are facts. Many want to turn these problems into political issues but these are not conservative vs. liberal issues, they are human issues. We have all benefitted from commercial agriculture and the burning of fossil fuels and so we have all contributed to the unintended problems caused by those activities. Therefore, we should all be working together on the solutions to those problems and the political aspects can be argued elsewhere.

    Doomsday? You may scoff and make light of the situation, but that is what many ecosystems are experiencing. Some of my colleagues believe that the Great Barrier Reef and other reefs around the world are already doomed and that it’s just a matter of time before they are completely destoryed. Personally, I don’t see the humor in the degradation of ecosystems. It breaks my heart because I’ve been snorkeling and I have seen the beauty of a coral reef. I’ve always wanted to see the Great Barrier Reef and my family and I may not get a chance. Personally, I’m not professing doomsday just yet, although we are either at, or very near the tipping point and I feel that we will not curb our fossil fuel use quickly enough to avoid serious consequences to many ecosystems. That is what the models are showing. The time has come to seriously consider geoengineering techniques while continuing to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels and consumption of natural resources.

    Through geoengineering, we can fairly easily bring atmospheric temperatures back down to pre-industrial levels. Some have suggested injecting sulfur into the atmosphere, which should work, but that sulfur would return as acid rain, killing forests and further reducing the pH of the oceans, so, obviously not the best idea. Fertilizing the oceans to increase algal growth is not my favorite idea either. What I’d like to see is what I call the “C. Montgomery Burns Plan to Mitigate Anthropogenic Climate Change” or CMBPMACC for short. You may think that this is a joke, but I assure that I am serious. I came up with this idea in the 1990s, after watching the 2-part “Who Shot Mr. Burns?” episodes of The Simpsons and I still cannot see any real drawbacks, so I implore everyone who reads this to suggest this idea to any decision-makers or influential folks when discussing any climate issues.

    In the 2-part "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" episodes of The Simpsons, ol' Monty builds a giant umbrella over the town of Springfield to cast the town into perpetual darkness so that the residents of Springfield would need to use more electricity for heating and lighting their homes and businesses. Electricity which was, of course, generated by his beloved nuclear plant (Exxxcellent), so increased demand would increase his profits. The CMBPMACC adopts Mr. Burns' idea of shading the earth, but spins it for beneficial purposes, rather than nefarious.

    The CMBPMACC calls for the creation of multiple sets of modular panels that would function essentially like a bunch of Venetian blinds orbiting the earth. These panels would include many panels that are simply mylar (or other space-suitable reflective material), and some panels that are photovoltaic which would serve as the electricity source to power motors which would open and close the blinds as needed. There would be many and they would simply orbit the earth. My suggestion is that the panels would be closed when over the ocean, and open when over my precious garden plants or any other land mass, so as to not reduce the amount of photosynthetically active radiation reaching my tomatoes, jalapenos, zucchinis, and such. The result would be the reflection of a small amount of solar energy back into space which would reduce the amount energy absorbed by the atmosphere and the earth's surface, so that we could control the temperature reasonably well, so as to combat "global warming". Open and close the blinds as necessary and if there are unexpected, negative consequences that cannot be tolerated, simply push them into the stratosphere and watch them burn up. I'm not smart enough to calculate the surface area of reflectivity needed to bring the temperature down to pre-industrial levels, or where the Venetian blinds should be placed in orbit, but I'm sure that the High-Q teams at NASA and NOAA can figure that out.

    I realize that this plan does not do anything for the ever-increasing concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere and ocean acidification, therefore, I urge that we continue to reduce our dependence on fossils fuels and consumption of natural resources and we should plant more trees to uptake carbon in their tissues. We may also need to use algae and kelp farms to sequester some carbon from the oceans.

    Now I realize that many will think that I’m crazy, that I’m joking, or that the CMBPMACC is impossible or just ridiculous, but I assure you that I am entirely serious. On February 6, 2018, SpaceX launched Falcon Heavy and Elon Musk sent his personal automobile into the asteroid belt while playing David Bowie on a loop and then landed two rockets in a vertical orientation simultaneously. If people can do that, we can put some Venetian blinds into orbit or find other, probably better ways to solve the climate crisis.

    If you didn’t see the Falcon Heavy event, below is a link to the video that still brings tears of joy to my eyes every time I watch it. It’s only 2 minutes long and there are longer versions out there but you should really take 2 minutes to watch it and turn the volume up!!! It is inspirational watching all of those people working together towards a common goal that was once the stuff of science fiction:



    Please advocate for the CMBPMACC however you think best. We can do this!

    Kindest regards,
    Kantuck
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  9. #24
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    As a former Hydrological-Meteorological Technician with the National Weather Service, I know all too well of the climate issues. The problem I have is when scientists do not and will not write or speak about some causes of Global Warming and other issues because these will hurt their chances to receive Grant money from the Federal Government, from Universities and from Private individuals or Corporations. Things like the Ozone depletion can be addressed because it can be made and dispersed where there are holes but what most people are not aware of, is the fact that the Earth goes through a natural Ozone depletion in areas where it is Winter when the majority of Ozone creation stops in the atmosphere (i.e. you need Oxygen and sunlight in the correct wavelength) but is created in the areas where it is Summer and there is plenty of sunshine. Atmospheric Scrubber fleets using large Dirigibles could be built and launched at high altitudes well above any flight lanes and run on pre-programmed flight paths with no crews on board. These could be brought back to ground for removal and replacement of Scrubber Filters that would then be buried or if the contaminants captured from the atmosphere are feasible for use in a non-polluting manner, then these would be used. El Nino and La Nina are events that have caused much debate and controversy in the last 30 to 50 years or more between Climatologists, Scientists, the Media and the Public. While these have influences from Global Warming (i.e. climate change), if you check the facts, you will find that almost every El Nino event on record coincided with increased Volcanic activity around the world and especially in the Pacific Basin. However, you never read or hear of scientists noting that increased Volcanic activity is partially responsible for El Nino because by stating such, would likely kill their chances for Grant money. Thunderstorms that become Severe and cause so much damage from winds and Tornadoes can be dealt with, if Scientists...Meteorologists, Universities and the Government could come together and find a media for introducing Alcohol to the tops of Severe Thunderstorms. Thunderstorms become Severe when they have good inflow of moisture and winds, develop especially strong updrafts, the tops of the storms rapidly cool and the tops of these storms are much cooler than normal run of the mill Thunderstorms. By introducing Alcohol to the tops of the storms which are basically water vapor, water droplets and ice, the Alcohol will increase the heat in the tops of the storms by the process known as Latent Heat of Evaporation. You experience this process every time you apply Alcohol to your' hands then rinse them in cold water because you notice that it actually warms in your' hands. The same process can be used to decrease the intensity of Thunderstorms in Hurricanes thus decreasing the strength of Hurricanes. This is not the same as the Seeding Program the Government tried back in the 1970's in an attempt to decrease the strength of Hurricanes. Droughts and Flooding cannot be eliminated but can somewhat be alleviated by building a complex Drought-Flood Alleviation System. This System would comprise of additional Water Reservoirs and even large Water Holding Tanks being built across the entire lower 48 States with large Water Pipelines being built and running along side of Interstates and major Rail Lines and placing Water Pumping-Diversion Stations every 100 to 200 miles along these pipelines. With this system, we could move additional water away from areas that scheduled Dam releases cannot accomplish and this extra water could be moved to regions that are experiencing Drought and/or a need for extra water for irrigation of crops or to help in fighting fires, especially Forest Fires. This extra source of much needed water, could even be used to irrigate lands in locations such as California that have been stripped of vegetation due to fires and are at high risk of Flooding, Flash Flooding and Mudslides. The loss of the Ice Packs in the Arctic and Antarctica as well as Alaska could be somewhat alleviated by launching a fleet of Snow Making Machines to build up Snow Pack which will likely become more dense and eventually turn to Ice Pack in some locations. Although I could note a few more things that could be addressed, these are just some that could and can be addressed in our lifetimes.


    Frank
    Last edited by huntsman53; Oct 17, 2018 at 10:21 PM.

  10. #25
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    That. Was. Awesome. Thank you Frank. And thank you A#1 for starting this awesome thread!

    Kindest regards,
    Kantuck
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  11. #26

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    Glossed over the comments. I have a pretty good handle on what this will do for my property and the risk of spreading. It only spreads by vines. As long as you keep it bordered it will stay put. The area I’m planting it in is bordered by my lawn and a road.

    I have planted native plants such as naked buckwheat, sage brush, blue grass, deer grass, California poppies, yarrow, Oregon grape, Yellow pine trees, and western cedar. Little bit every year.

    I also clear invasive brush and do a combination of manual removal and herbicide spot spraying to get rid of yellow star thistle, yellow mustard, white top, mullen, and other thistles.

    I maintain a watering area for wildlife. Black tailed deer, bear, bobcat, skunks, jack rabbits, brush rabbits, valley quail, mountain quail, hawks, owls, robins, larks, humming birds, turkeys, golden mantle chickmonks, ground squirrels, snakes, honey bees and the rest of the pollinators all benefit. I could go on and on.

    All of the above takes up a lot of my time.

    If your willing to sponsor enough native ground cover for 1200 square feet, I would be willing to kill all of the myrtle I have already planted and replace it with something better for the environment. I’ll even water it every week until it gets established. Otherwise this was free and it will be one of the few things green during the summer months.

    The deer apparently enjoy feeding on it by the looks of it so far.

    The lawn I planted cannot grow fast enough to keep up with the deer, rabbits, and turkeys. Have not had to mow it since spring. Seems all I’m doing by having a lawn is feeding the animals sometimes.
    Last edited by IMAUDIGGER; Oct 17, 2018 at 11:40 PM.
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  12. #27

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    Sage brush is at the top of my list of things I’m going to try transplanting once I’m done with this myrtle.
    It blooms nicely in early winter and the quail like to nest under it for some reason.
    There is some growing here and there, probably brought in by the Indians. It’s not very aggressive in this soil/climate.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntsman53 View Post
    The problem I have is when scientists do not and will not write or speak about some causes of Global Warming and other issues because these will hurt their chances to receive Grant money from the Federal Government, from Universities and from Private individuals or Corporations.

    El Nino and La Nina are events that have caused much debate and controversy in the last 30 to 50 years or more between Climatologists, Scientists, the Media and the Public. While these have influences from Global Warming (i.e. climate change), if you check the facts, you will find that almost every El Nino event on record coincided with increased Volcanic activity around the world and especially in the Pacific Basin. However, you never read or hear of scientists noting that increased Volcanic activity is partially responsible for El Nino because by stating such, would likely kill their chances for Grant money.
    Great points, the reality of people knowing where their paycheck comes from and actively generating results which they know will guarantee future paychecks is half of the basis of my skepticism. Scientists are people, and all people will lie to protect their interests, so I can't take anything they claim on faith. And when one follows the money and sees how malevolent multinationals and Big Oil corps. are investing heavily in "Green" energy and "Environmental Protection" in tandem with PR (brainwashing) campaigns promoting the Technocratic organization of society it raises some red flags. Superficial, virtue-signaling trendies will think that they are "Saving the Polar Bears" by spreading the gospel of Going Green while daintily sipping their soy-lattes at Starbucks, when in actuality many of them are merely useful pawns actively divesting themselves of their personal right to own, extract and use Earth's resources in favor of handing control of those resources to the corporate/bureaucratic Technocrats who will "wisely" ration resources and centrally-plan every aspect of daily life, which was shown to be such a brilliant success in the USSR but will surely be a heaven-on-earth now with the benefit of our modern data and surveillance grid to help ensure compliance...

    The money behind the scientists and "studies" where past data is continually "corrected" (lol) to create the illusion of statistically significant climatic trends, or dozens of dendrochronological data sets are tossed in favor of the 1 outlier that actually supports the false premise, is being invested not because the shadowy interests are benevolent and actually care about Delta Smelt or endangered Dung Beetles, but because they think that they can get the majority to believe it is in their best interests to give-up their rights and hand all the power and control over the Natural world and its resources to central governments and corporations. It's about power and control. It was about power and control when Rockefeller built his monopoly in the 19th century, and while the strategy has changed the goal is still precisely the same.

    Whether or not anthropogenic climate change is a force to be feared is immaterial in my opinion. Arguing about whether or not it is real is missing the point entirely. The greatest and most immediate threat is handing-over our rights and freedoms to folk like Al Gore promoting Cap & Trade and Carbon Credit systems so they can become billionaires while stripping sovereign nations and humanity of more and more of our freedom and agency and consolidating their control over the Earth, its resources and means of production. Naturally they will spend billions to create sophisticated arguments that they hope will convince a voting majority to abandon our patrimony and sell us all down the river. The best slaves are those who are blind to their chains, and then try to convince others that wearing those chains is actually liberating. The powers promoting all this have nothing to lose and literally the whole world to gain, so while I am conscious of the many genuine environmental problems which need to be addressed, the multi-generational progression and expansion of the so-called solutions presented thus far appears to lead to a totalitarian hell. An organic, decentralized, self-directed approach to reducing our footprint and cleaning things up is preferable to having millions forced at metaphorical gunpoint to conform to an arbitrary standard.

    Also, as long as we still have degenerate nonsense like this going on, humanity can wait on establishing a supranational carbon inquisitor to rule over the Earth:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #29
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    Hey Y’all,

    I’m pretty tired. Been farming all day. It’s getting pretty heavy in here. The point that I was trying to make is that we shouldn’t be arguing over facts... such as the fact that the movement of species can pose a threat to biodiversity, or the fact that our planet is currently in a warming trend, or that one of the causes of the warming is the increased atmospheric CO2 concentration due to the burning of fossil fuels and land use changes. The point that I was trying to make is that since we have this understanding, we should now be working together to investigate the implications (which appear to be mostly not good) and find solutions to the problems that arise from our actions. We are doing that to some extent, but in my opinion, we should be doing more.

    Kindest regards,
    Kantuck
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  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantuckkeean View Post
    Hey Y’all,

    I’m pretty tired. Been farming all day. It’s getting pretty heavy in here. The point that I was trying to make is that we shouldn’t be arguing over facts... such as the fact that the movement of species can pose a threat to biodiversity, or the fact that our planet is currently in a warming trend, or that one of the causes of the warming is the increased atmospheric CO2 concentration due to the burning of fossil fuels and land use changes. The point that I was trying to make is that since we have this understanding, we should now be working together to investigate the implications (which appear to be mostly not good) and find solutions to the problems that arise from our actions. We are doing that to some extent, but in my opinion, we should be doing more.

    Kindest regards,
    Kantuck
    OH - a farmer...they are responsible for the destruction of biodiversity...clear cutting the forest, plowing the ground allowing sediment to enter the streams, pouring round-up, 2-4-D and fertilizer all over the place....never mind if they have belching cattle.

    Just kidding.
    I know the huge benefit farmers generally provide to wildlife (at least around here).
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