Whites and Garrett better step it up

[Jim in Idaho]

To say Whites isn't involved in new tech is nothing but a lie. They have the new GM24K, and just this year a waterproof version. Both have the most advanced ground tracking system in the industry. The only way they'll go under is if people don't support them. Instead buying stuff made in Turkey...a very iffy NATO partner, run by a tyrant. Good luck with the consequences of that choice. I know nothing of Garrett, but understand their new Apex is due out this month. Looks to me like the bashing is more about money than features, or maybe rationalizing a choice to buy foreign.
Jim

 

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[GoDeep]

Looks to me like the bashing is more about money than features, or maybe rationalizing a choice to buy foreign.
Jim

"Bashing"? I re-read all the comments just to make sure, but I don't see any bashing at all. What I do see though, is passionate treasure hunters wanting to see more features out of their beloved American manufactures.

 

[Diggitdaddy]

just bought a White V3i about 2 weeks ago...it kicks ass. Depth, accuracy, color screen and Analyze...cant be beat

 

[Zincoln Miner]

Whites doesn't play with hype. They just make well made detectors that perform. The grass is greener on the other side of the fence is more placebo effect than reality.

 

[chub]

I think the OP was about the overall package. There's no hype - the Whites coinmaster on the whites site is $249. Simplex is $250. Simplex is waterproof. Simplex is updatable, has backlight etc. etc. The fact that it can be updated keeps it current / contemporary.
So with no bias, the consumer will most likely choose the simplex over the coin master on the over all package. Some people here have waxed lyrical about Nokta/Makro customer service and turn around time.
I don't think its about bashing - its about people WANTING to support their favourite US made brand but are finding it frustrating with the high prices, stale range, and lack of development...
If the Cygnus is anything like its said to be it will surely have huge support.

On a side note, I looked at buying a miller welder some time ago...all the components inside were chinese...so it was really just "assembled" in the USA

Chub

 

[chub]

Whites doesn't play with hype. They just make well made detectors that perform. The grass is greener on the other side of the fence is more placebo effect than reality.

I appreciate your sentiment but waterproof vs non waterproof isnt really placebo...the simplex for example really is waterproof. Again no bias, and its not really about Whites specifically.



Chub

 

[timex]

I guess we can all buy the cheaper foreign-made machines, and watch another industry go down the toilet. Then wonder why there's no decent jobs for the current college grads. What the heck...we might save a couple hundred bucks.
Jim

My apologies, for going off topic....

Yeah, I used to feel the same way.
12 yrs as a EMN-SS, Electricians Mate-Sub.
Got out and went into Manufacturing.

Along the way, I got Out-Sourced, to the Dominican Republic.
5 yrs, running a fabrication plant, in the American Free Trade Zone.
During those 5 years, my Passport was stamped for a total of 21-days stateside.

A big plus for me was working for an American Company, my U.S Pay was exempt from State & Federal Taxes.
My pay was Direct Deposit from the NY Company into Citi-Bank.
Still paid Social Security, and all the other stuff.
Filed Taxes every year, with Zero for State & Federal on the W2's

Traveling to work, I would pass Allen Bradley, Avon, Merk, BMS, and all the others in the Trade Zone.

• Our facility had a total of 1800 employees, ran only 1 Shift.
• Had our own Electric Generation Plant.
• Fed the employee's free breakfast & lunch everyday.
• Had our own fleet of buses that would transport them, to & from the Barrios.

Yea, a real bitter cup of coffee that opened my eye's.
Just like Bridgeport Machines, Inc. from 1938 to 2004...rip.

Being a Bubblehead, I was aboard the Archerfish SSN 678 for the ICEX 86.
Broke through the ice at the North Pole.

Thought I had seen it all, been lower than whale sh*t, and to the Top of The World!

Was not ready for what I learned about Manufacturing in a American Free Trade Zone!

Respectfully, tim

 

[Toecutter]

I went from the ATpro to the Nox800... wait fot it...... BECAUSE IT IS BETTER!!....not cheaper..

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Bridgeport made great Milling machines that last "forever".

 

[Jim in Idaho]

I went from the ATpro to the Nox800... wait fot it...... BECAUSE IT IS BETTER!!....not cheaper..

I see nothing wrong with that. No other manufacturer, anywhere, makes a similar machine. Several make individual machines that cover the same purpose, but the 'Nox is the only one that combines them in one machine.
Jim

 

[FreeBirdTim]

I went from the ATpro to the Nox800... wait fot it...... BECAUSE IT IS BETTER!!....not cheaper.

It also costs $400 more than the AT Pro. Sorry, but I'm not paying $400 more to find a couple more Mercs a year...

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I guess we can all buy the cheaper foreign-made machines, and watch another industry go down the toilet. Then wonder why there's no decent jobs for the current college grads. What the heck...we might save a couple hundred bucks.
Jim

Offer the best product for the best value and succeed.
Heck..just offer the best product...capitalism has a way of weeding out companies that take things for granted.

When it comes to metal detecting hobbyist I’m not sure price has everything to do with it. Minelab is a prime example. They sell $7,000 detectors like they are snow cones. Granted most of the parts are made in third world countries and the detectors are likely 80% assembled in second world countries. But price isn’t everything apparently.

 

[Honest Samuel]

That is for sure.

 

[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

I think what enthusiasts want/demand is often out of step with what the overall market wants. I'd guess that there are hundreds of people who own a metal detector, for every one member here. Perhaps more. And most of the market isn't going to spend the kind of money that buys the machines that you're talking about - the exception being the Simplex and/or Minelab's latest offering (entry level machines - at least from the standpoint of price).

Garretts appears to be well positioned in the general market - they clearly sell a bunch of their more entry level machines, and they've got a robust business in other avenues (outside their sport division). Enthusiasts tend to discount Garretts because they don't (yet) have a multi-frequency machine, but the demand for such a machine is almost entirely driven by avid enthusiasts, not the average Joe.

Whites doesn't appear to have the market share that Garretts has, but they do have machines that sell fairly well and they have brought out innovative machines recently. From what I've seen (in person) Whites still sells a fair amount of the more entry level machines, but their bigger sellers tend to be their mid-level machines and up.

Both companies have a factor that is very much in their favor - stellar reputations regarding service. That's huge.

In the end it's all about personal choices. I've owned, and used, two of Minelabs "better" machines and didn't like them nearly as much as I like the Whites machines that I still own. I own a Makro Multi-Kruzer; it's a fine machine and I'm very pleased with it. I am also quite impressed with Nokta-Makro's service and attention to their customers. Still, if I were somehow forced to choose between one of my Whites machines and the Kruzer - I'd choose the Whites machines. And I chose the Kruzer over the Equinox (and believe I made the correct choice for me).

Why?

They speak a language I understand. The build quality is exceptional. They find stuff. And I just happen to gel with them.

For me, the Whites machines (I own) are the better machines (compared to the competition). They're not outdated. They certainly aren't ancient technology. In fact I still consider the V3i and the MX Sport to be among the very best coin/jewelry machines on the market. I think the MX5 is still a great machine too - and in some ways it is my favorite of all the machines I own or have owned.

I suspect the doomsday predictions are a bit premature. I get the fact that some of those predictions are really just a public call for increased competition, but some are of the opposite nature; little more than a means of expressing contempt for a brand that doesn't tickle their fancy (for whatever reason).

Ford vs Chevy. John Deere vs IH (or whatever). Buy what you believe is the best tool for your needs. Then learn as much about using that tool as you possibly can. You'll be much further ahead in the game.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I think what enthusiasts want/demand is often out of step with what the overall market wants. I'd guess that there are hundreds of people who own a metal detector, for every one member here. Perhaps more. And most of the market isn't going to spend the kind of money that buys the machines that you're talking about - the exception being the Simplex and/or Minelab's latest offering (entry level machines - at least from the standpoint of price).

Garretts appears to be well positioned in the general market - they clearly sell a bunch of their more entry level machines, and they've got a robust business in other avenues (outside their sport division). Enthusiasts tend to discount Garretts because they don't (yet) have a multi-frequency machine, but the demand for such a machine is almost entirely driven by avid enthusiasts, not the average Joe.

Whites doesn't appear to have the market share that Garretts has, but they do have machines that sell fairly well and they have brought out innovative machines recently. From what I've seen (in person) Whites still sells a fair amount of the more entry level machines, but their bigger sellers tend to be their mid-level machines and up.

Both companies have a factor that is very much in their favor - stellar reputations regarding service. That's huge.

In the end it's all about personal choices. I've owned, and used, two of Minelabs "better" machines and didn't like them nearly as much as I like the Whites machines that I still own. I own a Makro Multi-Kruzer; it's a fine machine and I'm very pleased with it. I am also quite impressed with Nokta-Makro's service and attention to their customers. Still, if I were somehow forced to choose between one of my Whites machines and the Kruzer - I'd choose the Whites machines. And I chose the Kruzer over the Equinox (and believe I made the correct choice for me).

Why?

They speak a language I understand. The build quality is exceptional. They find stuff. And I just happen to gel with them.

For me, the Whites machines (I own) are the better machines (compared to the competition). They're not outdated. They certainly aren't ancient technology. In fact I still consider the V3i and the MX Sport to be among the very best machines on the market. I think the MX5 is still a great machine too - and in some ways it is my favorite of all the machines I own or have owned.

I suspect the doomsday predictions are a bit premature. I get the fact that some of those predictions are really just a public call for increased competition, but some are of the opposite nature; little more than a means of expressing contempt for a brand that doesn't tickle their fancy (for whatever reason).

Ford vs Chevy. John Deere vs IH (or whatever). Buy what you believe is the best tool for your needs. Then learn as much about using that tool as you possibly can. You'll be much further ahead in the game.

Maybe 3 months ago...but some of these American companies may not be around soon unless they are too big to fail and get bailed out by tax payers. We are in a different world now.

 

[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

"Maybe 3 months ago...but some of these American companies may not be around soon unless they are too big to fail and get bailed out by tax payers. We are in a different world now."

That is an excellent point.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Jim, I completely get your sentiment.

Start making the best stuff in the world here, and I will GLADLY pay significantly more $$ for it. Partially because it’s the best and partially because it supports our country and out of a sense of pride.

Make expensive junk here...I will buy slightly better cheap imported junk if that’s my only option.

Cars, motorcycles, recreational vehicles, power tools...Honda (Japanese) is BY FAR the best product. Expensive, but the best.

 

[scott9050]

I can get my White's serviced locally and Garrett and White's both have taken care of me above and beyond when something has gone wrong. Will these other manufacturers repair my items low cost or free of charge out of warranty or if something was my fault? There are many stories of White's and Garrett over the years making things right no matter what. Good customer service creates loyalty with me, and I will overlook a few perceived shortcomings for top notch above and beyond service and overall experience.

 

[Zincoln Miner]

I think what enthusiasts want/demand is often out of step with what the overall market wants. I'd guess that there are hundreds of people who own a metal detector, for every one member here. Perhaps more. And most of the market isn't going to spend the kind of money that buys the machines that you're talking about - the exception being the Simplex and/or Minelab's latest offering (entry level machines - at least from the standpoint of price).

Garretts appears to be well positioned in the general market - they clearly sell a bunch of their more entry level machines, and they've got a robust business in other avenues (outside their sport division). Enthusiasts tend to discount Garretts because they don't (yet) have a multi-frequency machine, but the demand for such a machine is almost entirely driven by avid enthusiasts, not the average Joe.

Whites doesn't appear to have the market share that Garretts has, but they do have machines that sell fairly well and they have brought out innovative machines recently. From what I've seen (in person) Whites still sells a fair amount of the more entry level machines, but their bigger sellers tend to be their mid-level machines and up.

Both companies have a factor that is very much in their favor - stellar reputations regarding service. That's huge.

In the end it's all about personal choices. I've owned, and used, two of Minelabs "better" machines and didn't like them nearly as much as I like the Whites machines that I still own. I own a Makro Multi-Kruzer; it's a fine machine and I'm very pleased with it. I am also quite impressed with Nokta-Makro's service and attention to their customers. Still, if I were somehow forced to choose between one of my Whites machines and the Kruzer - I'd choose the Whites machines. And I chose the Kruzer over the Equinox (and believe I made the correct choice for me).

Why?

They speak a language I understand. The build quality is exceptional. They find stuff. And I just happen to gel with them.

For me, the Whites machines (I own) are the better machines (compared to the competition). They're not outdated. They certainly aren't ancient technology. In fact I still consider the V3i and the MX Sport to be among the very best coin/jewelry machines on the market. I think the MX5 is still a great machine too - and in some ways it is my favorite of all the machines I own or have owned.

I suspect the doomsday predictions are a bit premature. I get the fact that some of those predictions are really just a public call for increased competition, but some are of the opposite nature; little more than a means of expressing contempt for a brand that doesn't tickle their fancy (for whatever reason).

Ford vs Chevy. John Deere vs IH (or whatever). Buy what you believe is the best tool for your needs. Then learn as much about using that tool as you possibly can. You'll be much further ahead in the game.

My XLT still performs like new out of the box for nearly 30 years now. I do not own a MX Sport, but by studying the manual, and watching user videos... It's basicly a waterproof simplified XLT at a frequency more sensitive to lower conductive targets while still grabbing silver. If it lasts for 30 years, then it's worth every penny.

In my opinion the secret of Minelab from the start was the stock coil being a DD coil. The TX/RX footprint of a DD is more forgiving for poor sweep overlap habits, and more able to get inbetween trash, but that's what a smaller coil is for. I do give Minelab a thumbs up for performance in conductive salt enviroment though.

Whites does have to make a lighter, and waterproof V3i with sleek aesthetics if they want to step up their game.

 

[Toecutter]

It also costs $400 more than the AT Pro. Sorry, but I'm not paying $400 more to find a couple more Mercs a year...

Please dont buy the Nox, I like detecting behind ATpros, and very glad its out of most peoples price range...