Dowsing rods or witching rods

[49er12]

Anyone use these for detecting purpose, what’s your honest opinion experience users, is it for real if you ask question and they close up there’s a reason to believe it works. Anyhow please explain how you feel and the proper way to use, thanks

 

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[hound]

Well, there's a number of stories connecting dowsing of water for wells with demonic incursions into the home as it's considered by the more religious to be witchcraft.

Double blind tests on groups of self declared expert dowsers indicate statistical success no greater than guessing.

It's just as valid that someone claims they're a Jedi and uses the force to feel out the location of artifacts and gold, or they're psychic, or an oracle, a demi-god, or receiving messages from aliens.

There's no scientifically backed evidence that dowsing works. I'll bet on peer reviewed valid science every single time.

People can tell all kinds of success stories. That's called Subjective.

Experimental tests conducted with double blind methodology produces statistical results that are Objective.

'Subjective' refers to information that is based on personal opinions, and 'Objective' refers to information that is based on factual evidence.

If dowsing worked you'd see job postings from mining, oil, and gas companies. Instead they use seismic surveys and drill. It it was commercially viable to them they'd use it.

 

[BillA]

it's a faith thing, if you believe......

when l was younger pointed more strongly, but I lost faith I guess

 

[michael NY]

I tried using the stud finder and it keep beeping at me!!..years ago I was looking for a well cover made of iron it was buried in the ground, The rods worked and I was able to locate it. They were brass brazing rods this was 24 years ago.

 

[ticndig]

I'm not one for hocus pocus . with that said I worked for the county water authority for 20 years doing underground utilities .
one of the tools we used to locate pipes and wires was this . it's a swiveling car antenna on a bicycle handle bar grip.
I have located and dug up hundreds of pipes and wire using this tool .
I'm not asking anyone to believe it works , just telling of my experience.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I think they work better than flying brooms, but have not tried them.

 

[Madmox]

And don’t forget about that old chestnut, confirmation bias! I work in the local gas utility and get to hear this crap all the time. So and so finds the gas mains with them all the time. Of course they don’t take about the massive empty holes that get dug. I’ll take my locator every time over dowsing rods. 9/10 times when they don’t find what they want in the hole the answer is ALWAYS... well, I bet there is something down there that these are picking up!

It’s also a bad sign that people say you can find pretty much anything with them. Water, Gold, iron pipe, plastic pipe, gas line, water line.... etc.

 

[Goodyguy]

With my rods I have had both success and failure, but mostly success so I suppose I am beating the odds.
Wish I could do that at the slots, or the lottery.

GG~

 

[GoDeep]

I'm not one for hocus pocus . with that said I worked for the county water authority for 20 years doing underground utilities .
one of the tools we used to locate pipes and wires was this . it's a swiveling car antenna on a bicycle handle bar grip.
I have located and dug up hundreds of pipes and wire using this tool . View attachment 1855729
I'm not asking anyone to believe it works , just telling of my experience.

I believe you dug up the pipes, i don't believe dowsing was the reason for finding them. When they randomly bury pipes in blind controlled experiments and use dowsing, no one can find them better then chance.

As anyone working in utilities, electrical and plumbing can tell you, most sewer, water and electrical is buried in pre-determined patterns and according to standards and code for streets, buildings and homes. So, for example, your local city sewer guy, could easily walk onto any street in America and with stunning accuracy, tell you were the pipes are running under his feet or an electrician could walk into your house and tell you where the wires are likely behind your walls, no scanners needed.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Using current scientific ability to absolutely disbelieve a theory is interesting.

Dive into quantum mechanics for a couple hours...these are 100 year old ideas that could never be proved until now.
They are magical as far as I am concerned. Absolutely shatter all ordinary understanding of our physical world.
Our world WILL be transformed in a way that impacts our quality of life soon.

Keeps my mind open as far as dowsing goes or even unbelievable stories of identical twins sensing the death the moment their pair dies. I’m sure this cannot be scientifically proven at the moment.

 

[GoDeep]

Theres a few hundred people just on this forum alone who claims it works. Should be easy for them to claim the 1 million dollar prize, yet they haven't, too busy chasing silver quarters to mind with a measly 1 million? Those who have taken the challenge, have failed:

Million dollar prize:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Quantum entanglement has been proven (by the Chinese) at a distance of over 800 miles!

Imagine that...two particles invisibly connected from earth to space!
They will be using it for absolute secure military communications.

Once you learn just a little about quantum entanglement, you realize we currently have the ability to send a single entangled particle on a intergalactic mission, which if it is safely received by an intelligent race of beings..limitless instant communication and data transmission is likely possible across TIME and space!

This is magical at the moment.

Dowsing...ya I suppose it could be possible (even if it can’t currently be proved).

Interesting about quantum entanglement...as soon as you “ look” to measure a state, the quantum system collapses. Maybe dowsing is the same, as soon as you try to measure it, something collapses?

All I know is I’ve seen some amazing and useful coincidences.

 

[GoDeep]

You bring up some fascinating topics that merit discussion in their own right, but this a discussion about dowsing, not Quantum Entanglement. It's a false equivalency and a deflection to boot. We can discuss Quantam physics if you'd like, but i'm here to discuss the science and methodology behind dowsing.

The age old "we don't know what we don't know" doesn't make dowsing anymore scientifically sound. Scientific methodology has proven it doesn't work any better then chance. If you know of studies that definitively prove it works, i'd love to see the research and am open to changing my mind.

Lastly, in regards to "measuring it" in the same scope of Quantam Entanglement. More false equivalency. We aren't trying to "measure" dowsing in the way they are trying to measure Quantam Entanglement. In point of fact, one doesn't need to "measure" anything with dowsing, we can simply observe its efficacy or lack thereof.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

You bring up some fascinating topics that merit discussion in their own right, but this a discussion about dowsing, not Quantum Entanglement. It's a false equivalency and a deflection to boot. We can discuss Quantam physics if you'd like, but i'm here to discuss the science and methodology behind dowsing.

The age old "we don't know what we don't know" doesn't make dowsing anymore scientifically sound. Scientific methodology has proven it doesn't work any better then chance. If you know of studies that definitively prove it works, i'd love to see the research and am open to changing my mind.

Lastly, in regards to "measuring it" in the same scope of Quantam Entanglement. More false equivalency. We aren't trying to "measure" dowsing in the way they are trying to measure Quantam Entanglement. In point of fact, one doesn't need to "measure" anything with dowsing, we can simply observe its efficacy or lack thereof.

I’ll admit I kind of got off on a tangent.

Because something can’t currently be proven does not mean it does not exist. Especially when using science as reasoning. If we all accepted the status quo the earth would still be flat. You have to be open to future developments in science.

Last thought on my side tangent...
Interestingly...entangled systems collapse by mere observation.
That’s is the behavior that makes it so optimal for secure communications. As soon as someone observes, the entanglement ceases to exist.
Flaw in my theory...I have observed dowsing work numerous times with no explanation.
Not going to be claiming the million dollar prize anytime soon.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

We have a large pasture with sprinklers connected by buried iron pipes.
They appear to kind of be installed in a straight line...not exactly, but kind of.

We had a sprinkler in the middle of a row that didn’t work. It would dribble water, but it wouldn’t be affected by the valve that affected the other sprinklers.

Brother and I figured we would have to start at the sprinkler potholing the waterline until we found out where it went.
Dad says “ not so fast, let me try something”. He grabs some rusty bailing wire off the fence and starts walking around making kick marks. He was not around when the pipes were installed and after 50 years, there is no evidence of trenching.

Both my brother and I figured he had no chance of helping and started grabbing shovels.

After about 20 minutes he walks over to this random location that didn’t line up with any sprinklers. It was maybe 30 feet away from the other sprinklers.

He said “ dig here, I bet there will be a 90 degree elbow buried 12” down that is plugged with rust scale”.
“we might be able to pound on it with a hammer and dislodge the rust without having to take any pipes apart”.

Brother and I cut a neat 8” diameter sod plug of grass out and low and behold...at 12” deep, centered in the hole - there was a freaking 90 degree elbow!! We beat on it with a hammer and rust scale started spurting out of the broken sprinkler. 10 minutes later we were drinking beer and doing something else. Sod plug was replaced, sprinkler reassembled. There was not only a 90 deg. elbow, but also as 45 degree installed for no apparent reason. We figured it was stuck on some used pipe my grandpa got at the dump. Otherwise the geometry made no sense.

Crazy unexplainable coincidence that makes you kind of believe. Believe it or not, it sure helped us out. I’ll take it!

 

[hound]

I’ll admit I kind of got off on a tangent.

Because something can’t currently be proven does not mean it does not exist. Especially when using science as reasoning. If we all accepted the status quo the earth would still be flat. You have to be open to future developments in science.

Last thought on my side tangent...
Interestingly...entangled systems collapse by mere observation.
That’s is the behavior that makes it so optimal for secure communications. As soon as someone observes, the entanglement ceases to exist.
Flaw in my theory...I have observed dowsing work numerous times with no explanation.
Not going to be claiming the million dollar prize anytime soon.

You're attempting a straw man argument against science not being open to new ideas.

Science is always open to new ideas as discovery is a cornerstone. The scientific method is responsible for the observation, measurement, and testing of a hypothesis against those observations. We did it with radiation, electricity, magnetism , high energy particle physics, and even neutrinos which are devilishly hard to detect. I have a muon detector based off an open source project that detects decay products of stellar rays on my desk. That scientific method is why we have computers, rockets, metal detectors, ground penetrating radar and the like.

Every single scientific test of dowsing has produced results that are no better than random chance. That's objective evidence vs people's subjective stories and thoughts. A group can apparently watch someone dowse and tell stories of success, but people studying how effective it is apparently make it fail. That's not a mystery, that's measured results.

You used quantum entanglement as an example. The difference between quantum effects and dowsing is that quantum effects are measurable, and repeatable. We may not understand the exact reason for them, but we can measure them and collect data. All data collected on dowsing says it doesn't work.

We can even measure time dilation effects of atomic clocks near mountains vs areas with ground of lesser mass vs atomic clocks in planes, vs atomic clocks in orbit. We can prove time dilation due to that, and it's affects at speed. We can even detect how time gets fuzzy when measured by two ultra-precise clocks in close proximity. It's all detectable, and measurable. That we don't detect any effect on a dowsing rods and their no higher than random chance effectiveness is telling.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

One last story...neighbor bought 40 acres and asked my dad if he would dowse a well location for him.
My dad agreed to do it as a favor and spent a few hours “ mapping” out where he thought the water flowing.

The neighbor met up with him and my dad walked him over to a location he felt several fissures intersected and said “I’d drill here”. The neighbor accused him of cheating and asked him who he had talked to. He then stepped over to a small flat 8”diameter rock laying on the ground and turned it over with his boot. Under the rock was the top of a wooden stob with a piece of red rag tied to it. He explained that the person he bought the property from had the wife of a local rancher dowse for water in the 1930’s using a forked willow branch and that is where she said there was water. Flat dry barren field.

My amazement isn’t that they hit 30 gallons a minute when they drilled the well, but that two people, 40 years apart would come to the exact same conclusion using two different hokus pocus methods. What a coincidence!

 

[hound]

One last story...neighbor bought 40 acres and asked my dad if he would dowse a well location for him.
My dad agreed to do it as a favor and spent a few hours “ mapping” out where he thought the water flowing.

The neighbor met up with him and my dad walked him over to a location he felt several fissures intersected and said “I’d drill here”. The neighbor accused him of cheating and asked him who he had talked to. He then stepped over to a small flat 8”diameter rock laying on the ground and turned it over with his boot. Under the rock was the top of a wooden stob with a piece of red rag tied to it. He explained that the person he bought it from had the wife of a local rancher dowse for water in the 1930’s using a forked willow branch and that is where she said there was water. Flat dry barren field.

My amazement isn’t that they hit 30 gallons a minute when they drilled the well, but that two people, 40 years apart would come to the exact same conclusion using two different hokus pocus methods. What a coincidence!

Stories are subjective and not valid evidence. If it works go claim one of those prizes offered for proving it. Again people have lots of magical stories about how it works, but no one can prove it during any double blind tests that have things like million dollar prizes on the line.

Treasure hunters who are expert dowsers, that's a no brainer. Go collect that prize money, when you do and I read their testing methodology and determined if they did their due diligence to double blind testing. I'll consider it having potential and buy a set of dowsing rods. It would take a few more tests with similar results to completely prove it to me as any valid scientific result is also repeatable, not just measurable.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Stories are subjective and not valid evidence. If it works go claim one of those prizes offered for proving it. Again people have lots of magical stories about how it works, but no one can prove it during any double blind tests that have things like million dollar prizes on the line.

Treasure hunters who are expert dowsers, that's a no brainer. Go collect that prize money, when you do and I read their testing methodology and determined if they did their due diligence to double blind testing. I'll consider it having potential and buy a set of dowsing rods. It would take a few more tests with similar results to completely prove it to me as any valid scientific result is also repeatable, not just measurable.

I can’t argue with you. I can’t explain it.
Dad told us where to dig at and we found the elbow.
Problem solved! I don’t have any urge to try and scientifically prove it.
I just wanted the sprinkler fixed.

Same goes for him dowsing the flowline of the buried bedrock to help us mine gold. I just want him to paint some lines on the ground so we have a direction to start digging towards.
The fact that we hit the flowline (15 feet deep) exactly where he had it painted...bonus coincidence for me!

Now I’m getting ready to start a tunneling project in search for a spring. We are in a severe drought, going on 10 years.
I asked him to dowse the water and he says 4 fissures all come together at this particular location. 20 feet deep, the bedrock is seeping water and the soil is saturated at the bottom 3 feet. You bet I’m going to tunnel in towards the exact spot he has marked. I’ll be happy when the pipe is flowing a couple gallons a minute and won’t even think twice about trying to prove anything. It will just be another meaningless story.

The million dollars will go unclaimed. I doubt he could prove anything either under scientifically controlled conditions. I just can’t explain it. He’s good at guessing, when he holds metal rods.

 

[ToddsPoint]

One thing I noticed is no one that posts on the Dowsing Forum has a banner find. I would think if dowsing worked there would be more banner finds there than anywhere. Crickets from the Dowsing Forum. Gary