Permitless concealed carry of firearms now legal in Montana - Page 3
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Thread: Permitless concealed carry of firearms now legal in Montana

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  1. #31
    Charter Member
    us
    "WP"

    May 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escape View Post
    User stupidity has nothing to do with it. If only flintlocks were legal I think there would be less shootings of all kinds. Daniel Boone never had a problem with them. Often good ideas are looked upon with skepticism at first.. Hunting would be more of a challenge for one thing and you would have no problem making you own ammo.
    Have you been introduced to flintlocks?
    I've enjoyed them along with other blackpowder arms. Ans you should not lighten the perceived ability.

    In regards to early times around the time our constitution was coming into being , you did not want to get hit with a one ounce ball.

    Did not Boone get shot by another hunter? Buckshot at the end of it's range if Boone is recalled as being involved correctly.
    He was also shot in the ankle in 1777 defending Boonesborough from Chief Blackfish and his Shawnee.
    I wouldn't claim he never had a problem with firearms.

    In terms of what arms were being referred to back then , it has nothing to do with unknown arms. It was not speculation.
    It was being equally armed. Meaning being armed with whatever any threat would present/bare against them/us.
    That would include not being restricted on ownership . By type or number ect..
    Equal to any contesting party by being armed in equivalency.

    My hunting is just fine with my pet rifle.
    And yes I've used blackpowder to hunt successfully on multiple game types. Don't kid yourself on efficiency.

    Make my own ammo? How do you mean?
    Making gunpowder at home is going to raise eyebrows in this climate. You may hazard a guess as to what I'd be labeled for doing so.
    Running ball by casting lead? That'll go over well on your front porch.... But hey , I'm in. Four dozen .62 balls please. If you could roll the sprues flush after , that'll help me load faster.

    How about you go out tomorrow and acquire some flint , and then knap some flints up for me? Start with a dozen 3/4 inchers for my "musket" please.
    You'll likely have time to whip up a pound of powder too. FFg please.
    Then I can breath a sigh of relief knowing I'm equally armed against any opposing force.
    Last edited by releventchair; Feb 19, 2021 at 10:39 PM.

  2. #32
    All I can say, is I have a right to carry my Sig Sauer 9 MM, and I do so. I have conceal carry permits for Illinois and Utah, and I carry everywhere the permits allow me to. Glad to hear Montana is loosening the belt. Hope more states follow.
    alan m, newnan man, Fat and 2 others like this.

  3. #33
    us
    Treasure every day!

    Aug 2005
    Beautiful Florida
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    Relic Hunting
    The sheriff of our county (Brevard) has a video on their website encouraging his citizens to obtain a CC permit and tells us to carry at all times. He acknowledges that the police cannot be everywhere or get there instantly.
    Treasure_Hunter, RTR, Fat and 6 others like this.
    It would seem we are now up a famous tributary without any means of locomotion.

  4. #34
    us
    E-Trac Wizard

    May 2016
    Chester County, PA
    E-Trac
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    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie P. (NY) View Post
    If you want to kill a "mass" of people there are many other very effective ways.
    I think we should ban pressure cookers They were effectively used as a weapon of mass killing in the Boston Marathon. Come to think of it, the Bill of Rights does not confer the right to bear pressure cookers.

    Pretty much any object can be used to injure or kill, and many objects can be used for mass killings. Take away guns, and something else will come up, or, as others have said, the bad guys will still have guns anyway. One nuance tho -- try defending your family with a pressure cooker or even a baseball bat. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

    That said, I think the gun debate is a bit or a red herring. Here is the real issue, IMHO. There is a group of people, by their nature, who wish to control others (that would be called "tyranny"). There is another group of people, by their nature, who wish not to be controlled by others (that would be called "liberty"). That is the real debate; guns are only a symbol of it. The Founding Fathers, as do I, lean towards the latter group. Take away the guns (not something I am advocating here), and nothing much changes on the philosophical side. Something else will pop up. The real challenge, and real fight, is to explain why liberty is a better idea than tyranny. I believe the gun debate, and I could be wrong, but I don't think I am, has distracted many from the core debate. Mass shootings, for example, while evil, have nothing to do with the core debate, but have been effectively used as a distraction, IMHO anyway.
    Oldest US: 1793 chain cent; 1800 half dime | 1830 bust half | 1842 seated half | 1857 & 1876CC seated quarter | 516 silver coins in 2011!

  5. #35

    Sep 2014
    Midwest, North of 36°60'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Escape View Post
    Under the second amendment I think the right to bear arms should only apply to what was used when the amendment was written. Musket rifles and black powder hand guns. Possession of any other type would result in a mandatory 19 year prison sustenance. This way everyone would still have the right to bare arms. How cool would that be? Not everyone likes firearms so we should also allow sabers and swords and legalize dueling. It will make the other person think twice about dishonoring you in some way.
    That's like saying under the right to privacy the abortionists should be limited to coat hangers.
    "Do Not do to others that which you would Not have them do to you"

    Choose your heroes carefully.

    In God We Trust.

  6. #36
    ca
    Feb 2009
    Deus, Minelab 3030, E-Trac,
    16,134
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    Relic Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckshot View Post
    That's like saying under the right to privacy the abortionists should be limited to coat hangers.
    What a sick reference to make-seriously.
    tinpan and SeabeeRon like this.
    "If it was easy-It would have already been done-Life 101."
    “I treat the outside world as one raw very warm wet chicken that has sitting out too long. wash and sterilize everything me touches.” — pepperj

  7. #37

    Sep 2014
    Midwest, North of 36°60'
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepperj View Post
    What a sick reference to make-seriously.
    Maybe accuracy ain't your thing.

    It's not a coat hanger problem, it's a violence problem.

    What if we used the same logic for the first amendment as some do for the second?

    "A well stocked library, being nesecary to the education of a free state, the right of citizens to keep and read books shall not be infringed"

    But then the book grabbers would come along and claim that books must be limited to ten pages, must not use pronouns or adjectives, and require the use of illustration, plus be limited to non-religious or non-political topics.
    crashbandicoot and T.C. like this.
    "Do Not do to others that which you would Not have them do to you"

    Choose your heroes carefully.

    In God We Trust.

  8. #38
    us
    United States

    Jan 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckshot View Post
    Maybe accuracy ain't your thing.

    It's not a coat hanger problem, it's a violence problem.

    What if we used the same logic for the first amendment as some do for the second?

    "A well stocked library, being nesecary to the education of a free state, the right of citizens to keep and read books shall not be infringed"

    But then the book grabbers would come along and claim that books must be limited to ten pages, must not use pronouns or adjectives, and require the use of illustration, plus be limited to non-religious or non-political topics.
    No need to argue about ignorance. That’s not intended to be a slight.

    There just needs to be some historical perspective looking at the horrific evil things that have occurred in the not so distant past. Just one lost generation.
    Going back thousands of years....likely to the beginning. It’s human nature.
    To think we have evolved past this in such a short time or that thousands of innocent deaths even come close to TENS OF MILLIONS is...well that is ignorant of history and REAL sacrifice that fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers that lost young loved ones can only appreciate.

    Maybe I should post up a link to the historical article documenting the children tags that were recovered recently having to do with the Jewish holocaust...wait they would have been WELL off and thankful towards the end of with just musket guns. Not so long ago folks. Stop and do some thinking.
    Last edited by Tesorodeoro; Feb 22, 2021 at 11:49 PM.

  9. #39

    Sep 2014
    Midwest, North of 36°60'
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    And just how did they round up those tens of millions of innocents?

    Oh, right.

    With guns....
    Fat, sprailroad and T.C. like this.
    "Do Not do to others that which you would Not have them do to you"

    Choose your heroes carefully.

    In God We Trust.

  10. #40
    us
    United States

    Jan 2018
    242
    310 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckshot View Post
    And just how did they round up those tens of millions of innocents?

    Oh, right.

    With guns....
    Exactly! We are on the same page.
    If one wants to get emotional about violence...refresh the memory of what occurred not so long ago...the before that...and before that...and...

    Blows my mind “educated” people don’t appreciate history.
    Better study up before it’s changed.

    Ok over and out. Thank you veterans.
    Duckshot, Fat, sprailroad and 1 others like this.

  11. #41
    us
    United States

    Jan 2018
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    To think an intelligent civilian population would not want to reserve the right for a “Do Over” when agreeing to be controlled by centralized authority....to think they intended to use slingshots and arrows is bizarre regardless of the misguided good intentions. To think they were protecting duck hunting or their own self protection (using period weapons ) is definitely..well...food for though hopefully.

    A legacy of those lessons...still funded by taxpayers is the Civilian Marksmanship Program, where our authority provides/military surplus weapons/ammo/training to citizens of the US...what a concept that flies in the face of other “United” concepts.
    Last edited by Tesorodeoro; Feb 23, 2021 at 12:12 AM.
    Singlestack Wonder and T.C. like this.

  12. #42

    Sep 2014
    Midwest, North of 36°60'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesorodeoro View Post
    Exactly! We are on the same page.
    If one wants to get emotional about violence...refresh the memory of what occurred not so long ago...the before that...and before that...and...

    Blows my mind “educated” people don’t appreciate history.
    Better study up before it’s changed.

    Ok over and out. Thank you veterans.
    Oh you must mean like today in Myanmar where pro-Liberty dissidents are disappearing from the streets at gunpoint.
    Last edited by Duckshot; Feb 23, 2021 at 12:08 AM.
    Fat and T.C. like this.
    "Do Not do to others that which you would Not have them do to you"

    Choose your heroes carefully.

    In God We Trust.

  13. #43
    us
    United States

    Jan 2018
    242
    310 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Your point being history repeats its self. I get it.

    It really highlights the potential outcome, should our personal/private/public education system fail to teach the lessons hard learned. I dare say...if the responsibilities of the gazettes are shirked.

    If the public is not persistently reminded as part of societal norms...they will forget within two or three generations.
    There is a reason we all repeated the pledge from kindergarten on and salute a symbol of the good struggle. If lessons are taught and understood, perhaps we stand a chance at not repeating mistakes needlessly.

    These boots are not much good for tip toeing in.
    Last edited by Tesorodeoro; Feb 23, 2021 at 12:32 AM.
    Fat and T.C. like this.

  14. #44

    Sep 2014
    Midwest, North of 36°60'
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    8518 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Story time-

    Once upon a time in a land far away there was a land with economic inequality. One day those who felt they were at the bottom of the economic ladder decided that they were at the bottom rung because those at the top rung were stealing from them. So, those at the bottom rung rounded those who had climbed to the top rungs of the economic ladder and put them to death and split to the loot.

    Then one day those who were still on the bottom rung saw that those who had killed the guys at the top were now in the middle of the economic ladder. Then those at the bottom got jealous of those in the middle rung, so they killed them and split up the loot.

    Then one day it seems that those still on the bottom wrung of the ladder decided that those at the next wrung up had stolen and were deserving of death. But an old man who had witnessed all this, the destruction of the top, middle, and soon the destruction of the bottom wrung of the ladder addressed the mob that was forming by saying-

    "I saw this show before. You all seem to beleive that by plunder you can climb this ladder, but look- each band of plunderers is poorer than the last."

    So they dug a hole beneath the ladder where they buried the old man from among them whom they had killed for blasphemy. But while they were digging the hole they looked up and saw....



    ....the bottom wrung of the ladder.
    sprailroad and T.C. like this.
    "Do Not do to others that which you would Not have them do to you"

    Choose your heroes carefully.

    In God We Trust.

  15. #45
    us
    Just some guy.

    Jan 2012
    Kentucky
    47
    109 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    The main issue with gun control is if you are going to limit what the 2nd Amendment gives you the right of, Where are you going to stop.. That would open up a door to limit all the other Amendments as well.. Would it be right to limit the 1st Amendment, you have the right to free speach except for this, this, and this.. Or how about the 4th Amendment, the local police have to have a warrant to search your house, but the state police and sheriff don't..

    See that's the thing about the Constitution of United States of America, it was put into place to protect us all from a tyrannical government over stepping it's bounds, by men that had just gone through the exact same thing..


    Now, if you weren't aware, the 2nd Amendment was written to protect all the other amendments, which is the reason why it is only preceded by the 1st, why.. Because you have the right to verbally convey to your government what they are doing wrong, and if that doesn't work you have the weapons to defend yourself/remove said government..

    Now on to the flintlock muzzleloader comment, as you know that is what the army had at that time.. And that is what the 2nd amendment was referring to, not specifically flintlocks, but what the army was armed with.. Why, because we would need weapons that were on par with the governments army..

    Boy ol Escape sure made some friends huh ?
    Last edited by Barber..; Feb 23, 2021 at 03:50 AM.
    I have nothing funny to say at this time, check back later.

 

 
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