Mixed Mode or Discriminate only?

[West Jersey Detecting]

I have been reading everything I can about the DFX. According to White's and the so called "experts" who have written books about the DFX, better depths can be acheived using Mixed Mode. For you non DFX users, Mixed mode allows the user to use both the the motion, or discriminate channel at the same time as the non motion, all metal channel.

I ask the question because in nearly all of the custom DFX programs that I see posted on the internet Mixed Mode is in the OFF position.

What is your experience?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

If you use mixed mode, you're not really getting any deeper, as far as it concerns the disc. signal. You're only getting deeper with the all-metal portion of the "beep" that's coming through. This is because all-metal mode goes deeper than disc. mode. You're just hearing them over-lapped. So if you intended to pass anything that didn't come through with some semblence of TID (so as not to be digging iron, for instance), then you actually aren't going any deeper.

I think the reason why it SEEMS like we/you go deeper in mixed mode, is that you are subconsciously drawn to those fringe targets, since...... you are hearing them, but they are not within range of being deciphered in the disc. range. But since you still hear something, you are more likely to make a 2nd and 3rd swing over them (criss-cross, double check, etc...), and THEN they might squeek through, since you get a better-centered swing now. Had you not heard the slight hint of a signal, you'd have not been prompted to make a concerted effort over the target, which eventually "brought it in". JMHO. Thus it just feels like you're going deeper.

To test this out: do an air test in your mixed mode. Find the measured depth at which you loose the disc. signal. Now turn off the mixed mode and go to strictly disc. mode. You will find that you get the target at that same depth. It will initially "feel" like it didn't do it as deep, since maybe, at that fringe depth, you appeared to be getting it at every pass of the hand when in mixed mode. But on strictly disc. mode, you only got it randomly at that extreme depth. What is actually going on is, you are only hearing the target intermittently squeek through into the disc. range when it's really deep. BUT you still "hear" it with every swing, since you are in mixed mode, thus getting at least the all-metal portion of the beep, on the weaker swings. The odds of slowing down to double check potential signals increases when you're in mixed mode. But at no time does the disc. depth (which you eventually make your decisions from) go deeper.

 

[madmacabre]

I agree with Tom , Mixed mode is horrible in trashy areas as well , the beeps drive me nutts only good I can see of it is if you were detecting in the woods or farmland

 

[Silver Fox]

I have been reading everything I can about the DFX. According to White's and the so called "experts" who have written books about the DFX, better depths can be acheived using Mixed Mode. For you non DFX users, Mixed mode allows the user to use both the the motion, or discriminate channel at the same time as the non motion, all metal channel.

I ask the question because in nearly all of the custom DFX programs that I see posted on the internet Mixed Mode is in the OFF position.

What is your experience?

Don't ANYONE take this personal, it's just my POV.

I have never understood why anyone would want to use a detector that is restricted from full operation by the programs unless that detector was desired only for its other features and the progamming was left off. I hunt in DISC and switch to AM when necessary, or vice versa.

As we all know from experience with the present range of metal detectors NO ONE knows what's in the ground beforehand. Every target is a surprise even when the detector indicates a particular target on the display, it might turn out to be something else or unexpected. So when you program your detector for COINS, let's say, isn't the detector ignoring other goodies that don't fall in the COINS range, such as gold items, or any kind of jewelry except silver rings, etc., that may signal under coins?

How do you rationalize using restricting programs and possibly missing treasure?

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Don't ANYONE take this personal, it's just my POV.

I have never understood why anyone would want to use a detector that is restricted from full operation by the programs unless that detector was desired only for its other features and the progamming was left off. I hunt in DISC and switch to AM when necessary, or vice versa.


How do you rationalize using restricting programs and possibly missing treasure?

First to answer your question, some people are simply not interested in Relics. They are only interested in Coins. Some are only interested in beach hunting. For these people the presets are fine. I agree with you that the less discrimination the better.

The beauty of using a detector like the DFX is that you have the option to use one of the preset programs, or you can tweak the detector to your personal style of hunting and local conditions using one or all of the 44 available controls.

Contrary to what you stated, you are not restricted by the programs at all, but are free to have a detector that allows you to customize everything to your personal preference. Things that most detectors have "pre programed" at the factory to average settings. How many detectors allow you to adjust your sweep speed? The DFX does! Most do not allow you to pick a frequency, but pick a good "average" frequency of about 7kHz. Since gold responds better at higher frequencies, and copper and silver coins at lower frequencies, the DFX lets you pick your frequency OR allows you to use BOTH at the same time. There are advantages to either choice.

In any case, I have never been one to just turn on any metal detector and start swinging. I always like to tweak it to the best settings for me.

 

[Silver Fox]

Don't ANYONE take this personal, it's just my POV.

I have never understood why anyone would want to use a detector that is restricted from full operation by the programs unless that detector was desired only for its other features and the progamming was left off. I hunt in DISC and switch to AM when necessary, or vice versa.


How do you rationalize using restricting programs and possibly missing treasure?

First to answer your question, some people are simply not interested in Relics. They are only interested in Coins. Some are only interested in beach hunting. For these people the presets are fine. I agree with you that the less discrimination the better.

The beauty of using a detector like the DFX is that you have the option to use one of the preset programs, or you can tweak the detector to your personal style of hunting and local conditions using one or all of the 44 available controls.

Contrary to what you stated, you are not restricted by the programs at all, but are free to have a detector that allows you to customize everything to your personal preference. Things that most detectors have "pre programed" at the factory to average settings. How many detectors allow you to adjust your sweep speed? The DFX does! Most do not allow you to pick a frequency, but pick a good "average" frequency of about 7kHz. Since gold responds better at higher frequencies, and copper and silver coins at lower frequencies, the DFX lets you pick your frequency OR allows you to use BOTH at the same time. There are advantages to either choice.

In any case, I have never been one to just turn on any metal detector and start swinging. I always like to tweak it to the best settings for me.

I respect your opinion. But it seems to me, by your reply, that you are operating under some mis-conceptions. First, though, I didn't ask a question about nor did I touch upon relics.

I don't see how you can say that some people are interested only in coins, or beach hunting since coins and jewelry are found EVERYWHERE. So in programming for one you lose the other. Are you implying that you are not interested in finding jewelry so you program your detector to ignore gold rings, coins, etc.? Or that you program your detector to find only jewelry and ignore those nice silver coins such as WLs, SLs, Liberty dimes, etc.?

I am a slow sweeper instead of preferring a fast sweeper as with a slow sweeper you can come back faster to the where the coil reacted instead of having to find it with additional sweeps, this time slowed down, I'm sure.

And if you have the option of using multiple frequencies to improve your chances at finding whatever is in the ground why would you select one or the other? Frankly, as I stated originally, a detector ought to be used to find EVERYTHING that is made of metal with you making the decision whether it's a keeper or a throw-away AFTER you expose the item.

And less or more discrimination depends on your area circumstances, there is no rigidity to this.

IMO, programs equal restrictions and loss of goodies, not facility.

But, whatever pulls your string.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Silver fox, you say: "Are you implying that you are not interested in finding jewelry so you program your detector to ignore gold rings, coins, etc.? " I don't believe that someone who cherry-picks "as needed" is not interested in finding gold rings or nickels. It's merely a question of odds. There are some hunt environments that I would start salivating if I got a tin foil or pull-tab signal (mainly, beach storm hunting after erosion washes away all the light stuff). But there are other hunt environments where a foil or pulltab signal will be..... 99.999% of the time, be foil or a pull-tab. Yes it's true that EVEN in the "junkiest inner-city blighted parks, that a single pulltab or foil signal *MIGHT* be a gold ring. But it's "most likely" going to be the next foil wad or tab. But that same signal on a swimming beach where mother mother nature just washed away all the light stuff, will be something interesting.

I guess it's like playing blackjack. If a person elects to "hold" when they have 20 in their hand, are they STUPID simply because the next card "MIGHT" be a one card? No, they are quite smart, because the odds are that it is probably not going to be a one card. And with limited holes and time you can put into certain hunt environments, the same logic holds true. There are some hunt spots where it simply makes sense to play the odds a little. If a hunt spot allows you to strip-mine, then fine, go ahead and strip-mine. If time and common sense prohibit that, either pick a new hunt spot, or just go for the silver. In some places, there is simply no way to have it both ways.

 

[Silver Fox]

I guess it's like playing blackjack. If a person elects to "hold" when they have 20 in their hand, are they STUPID simply because the next care "MIGHT" be a one card?

I'll ALWAYS stand on 20 because the odds of getting that 1 are not high enough to take a chance. BUT, we're talking about not knowing what the next signal will bring. I've never found a gold coin although I've recovered thousands of coins, a lot of them silver and/or old. Yet, every time I left Central Park where there must be a high quantity of gold coins, I always wondered if I had passed one up because I set my DISC too high since once in a while I would get frustrated with the huge amount of pulltabs (and other trash) found in a park that gets, it seems, millions of people every year and a lot of them drop the tabs.

I posted about me meeting a person with a non-discriminating Radio Shack detector versus my computer-controlled Teknetics Mark I Ltd and because he had no choice but to dig every signal, something he got accustomed to doing,
and me using my DISC. He found a $20 gold coin.

It's a matter of personal preference.

 

[DFX-SCOTT]

MY DFX IS SET UP TO TELL ME WHAT EVERYTHING IS!
IF I PASS A PULL TAB I KNOW IT
IF I PASS A NAIL I KNOW IT
PENNY,QUARTER, DIME, I KNOW.

MY DETECTOR DOESNT HAVE ONE SOUND FOR ALL TARGETS
PICTURE ID
VDI# ID
GRAPH ID
MOST IMPORTANT SOUND ID
I ENJOY THE TECHNOLOGY.
THE ONLY THING IS , I NOW HAVE TO DECIDE IF I WANT TO DIG THE PULL TAB, AND HOPE FOR A RING
ALL METAL MODE WOULD CAUSE ME TO DIG 20 HOLES IN A 10 FOOT AREA
ALL METAL MODE IS JUST NOT PRACTICAL IN GRASS SO DISCRIMINATION IS A MUST,
BUT ON THE BEACH, OR PLAYGROUNDS YES ALL METAL MODE IS GREAT BECUASE SOME CHILDRENS JEWELRY
IS MADE OF CHEAP METAL, BUT LOOKS NICE.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Silver fox, you say: "Are you implying that you are not interested in finding jewelry so you program your detector to ignore gold rings, coins, etc.? " I don't believe that someone who cherry-picks "as needed" is not interested in finding gold rings or nickels. It's merely a question of odds. There are some hunt environments that I would start salivating if I got a tin foil or pull-tab signal (mainly, beach storm hunting after erosion washes away all the light stuff). But there are other hunt environments where a foil or pulltab signal will be..... 99.999% of the time, be foil or a pull-tab. Yes it's true that EVEN in the "junkiest inner-city blighted parks, that a single pulltab or foil signal *MIGHT* be a gold ring. But it's "most likely" going to be the next foil wad or tab. But that same signal on a swimming beach where mother mother nature just washed away all the light stuff, will be something interesting.

I guess it's like playing blackjack. If a person elects to "hold" when they have 20 in their hand, are they STUPID simply because the next care "MIGHT" be a one card? No, they are quite smart, because the odds are that it is probably not going to be a one card. And with limited holes and time you can put into certain hunt environments, the same logic holds true. There are some hunt spots where it simply makes sense to play the odds a little. If a hunt spot allows you to strip-mine, then fine, go ahead and strip-mine. If time and common sense prohibit that, either pick a new hunt spot, or just go for the silver. In some places, there is simply no way to have it both ways.

Tom you are exactly correct. In my area we look for Colonial copper coins. By using a lower frequency I am able to reach deeper and get more accurate ID for these types of coins by choosing a lower frequency. I know I am sacrificing the depth on small jewelry and gold, but the chances of finding these in my area are slim. On the other hand, If I was in California I may choose the higher frequency which will find more gold and sacrifice the deep copper. I rarely use the factory preset programs "as is", but they are a great place to start my own custom programs. I do agree on your theory Silver Fox that we should dig everything, but I like to play the odds. Besides, I can always go back to a site and hunt in the multiple frequency at a later date!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

There was a particular out-spoken hunter in my area, who bristled at the thought of any discrimination above iron. He reasoned that a foil or tab signal *might* be a gold item. And as far as passing surface clad (obvious corroded surface zinc, etc..) he reasoned "it *might* be a coin brought to the surface by a gopher".

Hunt after hunt with this fellow in a junky inner-city park, resulted in that eventually he got some sort of gold bracelet charm one time, and another time, got a V-nickel. Meanwhile, he got zero (or maybe 1 max) silver or other old coins, because he spent all his time digging endless holes for flitty little stuff, clad, etc.... In his logic, he would miss neither the little gold things, nor the nickels, nor the deep silver. He figured, if he was "digging all", he would have the best of both worlds. Yet time after time he would have no silver, wheats, IH's, etc... while others of us would have several each time, compared to his zero. What was happening? Why wasn't he enjoying the best of both worlds? Simply because there is only so much time to dig in any given hunt. And if your ears get tuned to hear and find the surface clad and tabs, guess what you'll eventually have more of by the end of the day? But if you tune your ears to hear only the deep whispers of silver, guess what you'll have more of by the end of the day? So unless you have the liberty to strip-mine a junky inner-city blighted park, sometimes the next best thing is to 2nd-guess the TIDs.