Toad or frog effigy with Thunderbird

[Ckgene]

I thought this was just toad or frog Effigy but taking a second look there is a bird that's been etched on it as well. I might be making the Long Reach by labeling it as a Thunderbird, but interested in some opinions other than it's just a rock. I've had enough people on here tell me they're just rocks if they're not a triangle and an obvious Arrowhead.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Sorry, it is natural rock with erosion.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Sorry, but not even close.

 

[Kray Gelder]

I'm sorry CK, but I'm seeing this.

 

[ToddsPoint]

I think it's insulting to Native Americans to post rocks like the above thinking this is somehow Native American art. Look at this pipe. When an Indian made a bird from a rock, it looked like a bird, not a blob. Look at the beak. Obviously a finch. Not just a generic bird, but you can tell the species. They were far better craftsman than many posters of junk rocks give them credit for. Gary

 

[diggummup]

I think it's insulting to Native Americans to post rocks like the above thinking this is somehow Native American art. Look at this pipe. When an Indian made a bird from a rock, it looked like a bird, not a blob. Look at the beak. Obviously a finch. Not just a generic bird, but you can tell the species. They were far better craftsman than many posters of junk rocks give them credit for. Gary

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Seems like a daily occurrence lately. I don't understand it myself.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Bird pipe, found in Mid Missouri, looks like a bird, no imagination required.




Another Missouri artifact. Clay mourning flute.

 

[GopherDaGold]

Agree with everyone who calls it a natural rock but you have already decided to not accept that as an answer so disregard my post.

 

[Ckgene]

That definitely is a museum grade peace, maybe even a notch higher if that's possible. I reread my thread and in no way did I put anyone in a degrading position. Natural rock shaped into an animal would have had spiritual value to the Native Americans. Even more so if the rock was shaped by Nature. You suggesting that Native Americans were Petty is what they would have been insulted by. I'll see a shape of a bird regardless of how it got there and I think that's cool. Somehow that's offensive to all of you. I hope you all can maybe get out and mingle with other people in society because there's lots of hate with numbers in this site that I truly don't understand. Me accepting it's natural rock is probably not going to satisfy the urge for you to ridicule.

 

[Kray Gelder]

That definitely is a museum grade peace, maybe even a notch higher if that's possible. I reread my thread and in no way did I put anyone in a degrading position. Natural rock shaped into an animal would have had spiritual value to the Native Americans. Even more so if the rock was shaped by Nature. You suggesting that Native Americans were Petty is what they would have been insulted by. I'll see a shape of a bird regardless of how it got there and I think that's cool. Somehow that's offensive to all of you. I hope you all can maybe get out and mingle with other people in society because there's lots of hate with numbers in this site that I truly don't understand. Me accepting it's natural rock is probably not going to satisfy the urge for you to ridicule.

So tell me CK, when you got an F on your ( insert your topic here ) exam because you refused to learn or thought you already knew everything, was that because your teacher hated you? When your dentist tells you you're going to lose all of your teeth, if you don't start brushing, is it his hatred that makes him say that? When your co-workers finally tell you to take a shower, is that because they hate you? When your Sergeant tells you to get your f'n head down, he hates you, right? Natural selection does not favor your attitude.

This comment is aimed not only at you, but to all those who call us haters for speaking the truth. Whatever.

 

[Ckgene]

I've accepted that it's natural rock. I got defensive over being accused of insulting the Native Americans by my post. It's a natural rock, I can accept that. I am however asking your experience and your expertise as to why I keep finding other natural rocks in the same area that has the Thunderbird or whatever kind of bird image , on a bunch of other natural rocks. I will admit if it was just this one rock that would be silly but how many times does something repeat itself before you question the possibility that because it repeats maybe it's not just by accident. I will post a few pictures and highlight the areas where they are. Really what I like an answer to is why these natural rocks have a similar bird symbol on them. Maybe it's a byproduct of natural erosion the one I keep seeing the same thing repeating itself makes a fellow Wonder. I will post a few here shortly and I can also post many, I'm just wondering why this image keeps making an appearance. If I'm just imagining it then no one else should be seeing it and I've been able to show a few people you can also see it. That doesn't mean I have an explanation for it or think that's evidence for it being an artifact. It repeats enough it has caught my interest, and I believe this forum is appropriate. In fact I think I'll just create a new post

 

[Mine Shaft]

I don't see any image of a thunderbird or bird on that rock.

 

[Michelle S]

NEWSFLASH not all humans are or have ever been amazing at the same thing but we all color at some point and make pottery or whatever and unfortunately only a small amount are blessed with amazing artistry talents. So imagine no coloring books no t.v. no phones or laptops no written language no books to read children or barbies or cars to play with or ways to entertain or express yourself and no photographs to remember or admire loved ones. They had rocks to work or cave walls or fossils or the lucky might find some petrified wood. They had a different outlook so their pictures of things look strange to us but it doesn't make it just a rock bc it doesn't look like museum art. It is still one Native American's piece of art work or a story to tell or a toy for a child of a bird or horse or bunny or a goofy smiley face. I have all sorts of different quality of rock art but I don't look for the finest etched ones made of quality material like most bc those were only the talented ones and the finer ones were only later and mostly wealthy not the majority of their population or the early ages. My ugliest and most worn arrowheads and tools happen to be the most valuable because of their age. I know it shocked me too. But it just goes to show you that beauty and perfection are amazing to find but all the in between are wonderful in their own respect and some are worth an unbelievable amount bc they are ugly and strange and look natural. The less talented would find rocks that were naturally somewhat shaped like a profile of man or animal and would make an eye or mouth on it and that would be it and some would put several images from several angles and it would tell a story or record events of their lives. Few were the local flint workers so the rest just did it when they weren't busy surviving. I wish people would stop being so closed minded then they would see the amazing things they have left us on these "rocks". Not all Natives were great artists with two rocks just as we are not all Picasso's with a paint brush and canvas. You would be surprised at the collectors that are now purchasing rock art and there are people finding natural rocks that are profiled completely natural and unworked and sell them as art and nature the artist. Different strokes for different folks... If you don't want to see it bc you prefer perfection then just don't comment on someone's find because I see many people giving false identifications and being rude thinking they are right and look foolish because out of the last four I saw were being told "just rocks" three were rock art. I couldn't tell you much about types of rocks bc I am still learning but I have 20 yrs in the Native Americans artifacts weapons tools and, yes, artwork. I have an assorted collection and an insanely amount of research on the subject so although not a titled expert I do know a little about what I am talking about. I will be posting my collection soon so I hope some read this before commenting on mine. Note to the poster: a few more angles in different lighting help give the viewer more perspective but great find! And I do believe you have a piece there but more angles needed to say more than that. Effigy I see thunderbird I can't say but still nice.

 

[Ckgene]

MichelleS, is super refreshing to read a comment from someone who sees more that triangles and flaking. I tried explaining regardless of how the rock got it's shape, if it resembled an animal or person, they would have considered it art, or would hold some spiritual meaning. Maybe i was defensive on how i posted it. Thanks for your well worded comment

 

[GopherDaGold]

NEWSFLASH not all humans are or have ever been amazing at the same thing but we all color at some point and make pottery or whatever and unfortunately only a small amount are blessed with amazing artistry talents. So imagine no coloring books no t.v. no phones or laptops no written language no books to read children or barbies or cars to play with or ways to entertain or express yourself and no photographs to remember or admire loved ones. They had rocks to work or cave walls or fossils or the lucky might find some petrified wood. They had a different outlook so their pictures of things look strange to us but it doesn't make it just a rock bc it doesn't look like museum art. It is still one Native American's piece of art work or a story to tell or a toy for a child of a bird or horse or bunny or a goofy smiley face. I have all sorts of different quality of rock art but I don't look for the finest etched ones made of quality material like most bc those were only the talented ones and the finer ones were only later and mostly wealthy not the majority of their population or the early ages. My ugliest and most worn arrowheads and tools happen to be the most valuable because of their age. I know it shocked me too. But it just goes to show you that beauty and perfection are amazing to find but all the in between are wonderful in their own respect and some are worth an unbelievable amount bc they are ugly and strange and look natural. The less talented would find rocks that were naturally somewhat shaped like a profile of man or animal and would make an eye or mouth on it and that would be it and some would put several images from several angles and it would tell a story or record events of their lives. Few were the local flint workers so the rest just did it when they weren't busy surviving. I wish people would stop being so closed minded then they would see the amazing things they have left us on these "rocks". Not all Natives were great artists with two rocks just as we are not all Picasso's with a paint brush and canvas. You would be surprised at the collectors that are now purchasing rock art and there are people finding natural rocks that are profiled completely natural and unworked and sell them as art and nature the artist. Different strokes for different folks... If you don't want to see it bc you prefer perfection then just don't comment on someone's find because I see many people giving false identifications and being rude thinking they are right and look foolish because out of the last four I saw were being told "just rocks" three were rock art. I couldn't tell you much about types of rocks bc I am still learning but I have 20 yrs in the Native Americans artifacts weapons tools and, yes, artwork. I have an assorted collection and an insanely amount of research on the subject so although not a titled expert I do know a little about what I am talking about. I will be posting my collection soon so I hope some read this before commenting on mine. Note to the poster: a few more angles in different lighting help give the viewer more perspective but great find! And I do believe you have a piece there but more angles needed to say more than that. Effigy I see thunderbird I can't say but still nice.

It's just a rock.

 

[Rookster]

 

[diggummup]

Ever heard the term "a picture is worth a thousand words"?