Detecting Disturbed Ground - Thermal infrared?

[Signman]

Hi all, I wasn't sure where to post this question. I'm looking for a pretty significant treasure that was buried 50 years ago. It's in the desert in the southwest. The ground is largely undisturbed of course but a 5 foot hole was dug and treasure was buried. I know that you can use a ground penetrating radar and see the natural layers where the earth was formed and then where the earth has been dug and refilled will look differently. I rented a GPR last year and when they showed me how to use the machine, they showed me examples of output showing this very thing. I could spend the high cost of renting a radar and run over the entire area for this but it would probably take me a month or more, and if I was going to do that, then I would just run my pulse detector.

So the question is, is there someway to see this without covering every inch of ground? Something like near infrared or maybe thermal infrared. The natural formation of the earth has been disturbed at where the treasure is buried, is there a way to see this?

Also, I was watching Expedition Unknown (Episode: African Gold Hoard) and they flew a drone after sundown with thermal infrared. The ground was cooling down but metal was still warm. They found several pieces of metal because the thermal camera saw the difference in temperature. The guy with the drone claimed that this works up to 6 feet deep but no other details were given and I've been trying to read everything I can find on the subject but I can't confirm that. I wrote to Flir, but they couldn't confirm it. I wrote to the guy in Africa with the drone in Expedition Unknown episode but he didn't respond back. I've also read some promising papers on archeology where thermal infrared is used in this way but still no confirmation of these kinds of depths being possible. The drawback with this, if it works, is I'd have to wait until the summer to try it and the 'Flir Vue Pro' camera with 640X512 resolution is quite expensive. If I knew for sure it would work, I would fork over the money. I have a DJI drone.

Looking for any ideas around being able to see disturbed ground or a thermal signature to find a treasure. Thanks for any ideas or information.
Regards,
Signman

 

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[signal_line]

Those thermal cameras work good to find fresh dog urine! If it looks like a cinnamon roll, don't pick it up!

What I've heard is dry sand is your best shot. But I've never heard of any real finds other than TV show. The idea is gold has low emissivity, meaning it holds heat longer. Dry sand acts as an insulator so it slows the cooling process. What I've heard is not likely.

 

[RTR]

Maybe contacting (Flir.custhelp.com) will help (as to how deep it will penetrate ). Good luck ! I've flown R.C. for decades and I'm a firm believer that what your looking at will be a valuable tool
And if not you could always sell the Camera.
https://flir.custhelp.com/

 

[RTR]

GPR on a Drone might be the way to go.Jump to 1:05 in this video.

 

[Philvis]

If it was a 5 ft wide hole, I think you would have more luck with GPR. I'm not too familiar with desert soils, but I'm not too confident you will be successful with thermal imaging or GPR unless the excavation to bury the loot and the container itself was substantial. You're probably better off with a 2-box detector if you are looking for a precious metals treasure at 5ft. deep.

 

[Signman]

Maybe contacting (Flir.custhelp.com) will help (as to how deep it will penetrate ). Good luck ! I've flown R.C. for decades and I'm a firm believer that what your looking at will be a valuable tool
And if not you could always sell the Camera.
https://flir.custhelp.com/

Thanks RTR for the reply. Yes, I did contact Flir and as I expected, they would not guarantee any depth range for thermal infrared. They just said if it can work, you will need the highest resolution and sensitivity for the best chances. I started flying RC airplanes back in 1980 but haven't flown since 2004...other than my DJI Phantom 4, which doesn't count :-)

I did see a report back in the 90's when I first thought about thermal infrared where Raytheon did a study for the military to see if thermal IR was a viable solution for finding unexploded ordnance (UXO). Their conclusion was that they could detect a 6 inch piece of metal up to 2 feet deep.
Thanks
Signman

 

[Signman]

If it was a 5 ft wide hole, I think you would have more luck with GPR. I'm not too familiar with desert soils, but I'm not too confident you will be successful with thermal imaging or GPR unless the excavation to bury the loot and the container itself was substantial. You're probably better off with a 2-box detector if you are looking for a precious metals treasure at 5ft. deep.

Thanks Philvis for the reply. I, nor any of my THing friends, have had any luck getting more than 4feet with a two box, in fact I sold mine after I bought a pulse induction with a large coil due to much greater depth. Setting the coil on the ground in the area, I can air test a plastic bucket full of aluminum cans holding it above my head (7feet). Aluminum is less conductive than gold or silver so even more depth should be achievable with those precious metals. What I don't know is what container this was buried in. I doubt it would have been a solid iron container, but if so, I don't know if the detector would see it.
Thanks
Signman

 

[RTR]

Some info here https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3923-satellites-hunt-for-buried-treasure/

 

[Signman]

Some info here https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3923-satellites-hunt-for-buried-treasure/

Thanks RTR, this is some very interesting information. I've seen magnetometers on drones but not GPR. I took my magnetometers out there and it is useless in this area. The ground is very mineralized and I can get a 100nT swing within 15 to 20 feet and lots of them. I've used it in areas where I get a 20nT change and there was always a piece of iron found, but in this location I checked all of the hits in a large area gridded out with my metal detector and found nothing. I doubt there will be much opportunity to get a drone with GPR and I can only imagine the cost.

 

[Signman]

Dang RTR, I've replied twice to your posts and it acts like it is successful but nothing shows up. I'll try again later.

 

[Signman]

Maybe contacting (Flir.custhelp.com) will help (as to how deep it will penetrate ). Good luck ! I've flown R.C. for decades and I'm a firm believer that what your looking at will be a valuable tool
And if not you could always sell the Camera.
https://flir.custhelp.com/

RTR, I watched the video you referenced. That is very interesting. It looks like that would be the answer if it was actually possible to get a hold of one. Thanks!

 

[RTR]

Thanks RTR, this is some very interesting information. I've seen magnetometers on drones but not GPR. I took my magnetometers out there and it is useless in this area. The ground is very mineralized and I can get a 100nT swing within 15 to 20 feet and lots of them. I've used it in areas where I get a 20nT change and there was always a piece of iron found, but in this location I checked all of the hits in a large area gridded out with my metal detector and found nothing. I doubt there will be much opportunity to get a drone with GPR and I can only imagine the cost.

I hear ya but it dosen't cost anything to ask .These guys will give you a quote...good luck
https://geo-matching.com/uas-for-mapping-and-3d-modelling/gpr-drone-integrated-system

 

[RTR]

I hear ya but it dosen't cost anything to ask .These guys will give you a quote...good luck
https://geo-matching.com/uas-for-mapping-and-3d-modelling/gpr-drone-integrated-system

Curiosity got me .I contacted them for a quote.I'll let you know when I get it.
Also found this video on their site

 

[gmradar]

Curiosity got me .I contacted them for a quote.I'll let you know when I get it.
Also found this video on their site

I have had a quote from them and it is in the range of 30k$ +. I have some serious doubts as to how the airwave really interferes with data since it tends to lower significantly the S/N ratio of radar. This type of GPR drones is good only for glaciers or similar cases but on normal soils i doubt it can give anything good.