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  1. #1
    us
    Pronounced "Shadow" - ---= Wolfpack Forever! =---

    Sep 2011
    Southeast Arkansas
    Ace 250
    3,409
    1967 times
    Cache Hunting

    Why so quiet?

    I know that parts of the U.S. are having the warmest winter in a while at the same time as other parts are experiencing record snowfall. And . . .

    How about Europe and Asia? Pretty cold again, setting records all over the place for low temps and snowfall.

    So far, I haven't read anything about heat waves in the southern hemisphere --- of course, if I missed it, I'm sure someone here could point it out and give me sources.

    Well, I know you folks will remind me that weather isn't climate . . . when it disproves your half baked MMGW spiel.

    Just remember, when it gets warm the next time . . . weather isn't climate.

    Somehow, I just don't think you folks in the MMGW crowd really want a fair playing field to discuss this subject. You say you're right and we need to blindly accept it as fact.

    I don't know . . . maybe we're headed to another ice age.

    One thing is for sure, as they say around here:

    If you don't like the weather, stick around. It'll change.
    Know your homophones (as opposed to homophobes like me)! Know which ones to use ... and their meaning:

    "Know" is related to knowledge, while "No" is a negative response.

    "There" is a location, while "Their" shows possession and "They're" is the contraction of "They are".

    "Which" specifies an item from a set but a "Witch" casts spells and wears a pointy black hat.

    "Patients" (people receiving medical care) must show "patience" (tolerate delay).


  2. #2
    us
    Jul 2010
    Missouri
    487
    2 times

    Re: Why so quiet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chadeaux
    I know that parts of the U.S. are having the warmest winter in a while at the same time as other parts are experiencing record snowfall. And . . .

    How about Europe and Asia? Pretty cold again, setting records all over the place for low temps and snowfall.

    So far, I haven't read anything about heat waves in the southern hemisphere --- of course, if I missed it, I'm sure someone here could point it out and give me sources.

    Well, I know you folks will remind me that weather isn't climate . . . when it disproves your half baked MMGW spiel.

    Just remember, when it gets warm the next time . . . weather isn't climate.

    Somehow, I just don't think you folks in the MMGW crowd really want a fair playing field to discuss this subject. You say you're right and we need to blindly accept it as fact.

    I don't know . . . maybe we're headed to another ice age.

    One thing is for sure, as they say around here:

    If you don't like the weather, stick around. It'll change.
    Your right the warmth here this winter has not been due to a climate change, it has been due to the pressure systems in the pacific. This warm winter does not prove global warming, nor would it prove disprove global warming if this was the coldest winter on record. When ever you look at data you will have outliers.

    And we don't say you have to blindly accept fact. We give you evidence. You claim climategate, we give you evidence that an oil sponsored study that backed up the data from climategate and this survey was conducted last year.

    Now what you need to remember is who gets in the news....EXTREAMISTS...This is true for both sides...true for politics...

  3. #3
    us
    Apr 2006
    Tennessee/Texas
    Minelab Sov / Fisher CZ-70 Pro/Fisher CZ 20
    928
    3 times

    Re: Why so quiet?

    Quote Originally Posted by werleibr
    Quote Originally Posted by Chadeaux
    I know that parts of the U.S. are having the warmest winter in a while at the same time as other parts are experiencing record snowfall. And . . .

    How about Europe and Asia? Pretty cold again, setting records all over the place for low temps and snowfall.

    So far, I haven't read anything about heat waves in the southern hemisphere --- of course, if I missed it, I'm sure someone here could point it out and give me sources.

    Well, I know you folks will remind me that weather isn't climate . . . when it disproves your half baked MMGW spiel.

    Just remember, when it gets warm the next time . . . weather isn't climate.

    Somehow, I just don't think you folks in the MMGW crowd really want a fair playing field to discuss this subject. You say you're right and we need to blindly accept it as fact.

    I don't know . . . maybe we're headed to another ice age.

    One thing is for sure, as they say around here:

    If you don't like the weather, stick around. It'll change.
    Your right the warmth here this winter has not been due to a climate change, it has been due to the pressure systems in the pacific. This warm winter does not prove global warming, nor would it prove disprove global warming if this was the coldest winter on record. When ever you look at data you will have outliers.

    And we don't say you have to blindly accept fact. We give you evidence. You claim climategate, we give you evidence that an oil sponsored study that backed up the data from climategate and this survey was conducted last year.

    Now what you need to remember is who gets in the news....EXTREAMISTS...This is true for both sides...true for politics...
    Could you please post a link to this study you refer to? Also I agree, Cold winters do not prove lack of MMGW as well as Cool Summers. Warm winters or hot summers do not prove MMGW either.
    Arooooooo Wolf Pack

  4. #4
    us
    Jul 2010
    Missouri
    487
    2 times

    Re: Why so quiet?

    Quote Originally Posted by 21stTNCav
    Quote Originally Posted by werleibr
    Quote Originally Posted by Chadeaux
    I know that parts of the U.S. are having the warmest winter in a while at the same time as other parts are experiencing record snowfall. And . . .

    How about Europe and Asia? Pretty cold again, setting records all over the place for low temps and snowfall.

    So far, I haven't read anything about heat waves in the southern hemisphere --- of course, if I missed it, I'm sure someone here could point it out and give me sources.

    Well, I know you folks will remind me that weather isn't climate . . . when it disproves your half baked MMGW spiel.

    Just remember, when it gets warm the next time . . . weather isn't climate.

    Somehow, I just don't think you folks in the MMGW crowd really want a fair playing field to discuss this subject. You say you're right and we need to blindly accept it as fact.

    I don't know . . . maybe we're headed to another ice age.

    One thing is for sure, as they say around here:

    If you don't like the weather, stick around. It'll change.
    Your right the warmth here this winter has not been due to a climate change, it has been due to the pressure systems in the pacific. This warm winter does not prove global warming, nor would it prove disprove global warming if this was the coldest winter on record. When ever you look at data you will have outliers.

    And we don't say you have to blindly accept fact. We give you evidence. You claim climategate, we give you evidence that an oil sponsored study that backed up the data from climategate and this survey was conducted last year.

    Now what you need to remember is who gets in the news....EXTREAMISTS...This is true for both sides...true for politics...
    Could you please post a link to this study you refer to? Also I agree, Cold winters do not prove lack of MMGW as well as Cool Summers. Warm winters or hot summers do not prove MMGW either.
    I have in the past but you all try do discredit it in the past but cannot because this study was released in October 2011
    http://berkeleyearth.org/

    Papers are found here, http://berkeleyearth.org/available-resources/

  5. #5
    us
    Apr 2006
    Tennessee/Texas
    Minelab Sov / Fisher CZ-70 Pro/Fisher CZ 20
    928
    3 times

    Re: Why so quiet?

    I am not trying to discredit anything. The results of this study are indeed pointing toward Global Warming although not the cause. The realty, ONLY 2% of the data temp readings have been used at this point!!!!!
    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr...keley-20110404

    Also it has not passed peer review but is being touted as though it had!! Also it is does not address causes. Remember, it's the SUN stupid!

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/2...e-peer-review/

    To prove my points I would like to include an article on the Berkely study. It does not mention causes, does not mention very little of the data has been published or used yet, and does not state anything about peer review other than to say Watts is using it as a crutch!!. It calls Scientists like Watts every name in the book and a host of others trying to HELP this study (As you pointed out Weib.) as "deniers" constantly. It looks to me like those "deniers" were simply seeking the truth. Not nice and not good.

    http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/1...ing/?mobile=nc


    Arooooooo Wolf Pack

  6. #6
    us
    Jul 2010
    Missouri
    487
    2 times

    Re: Why so quiet?

    Quote Originally Posted by 21stTNCav
    I am not trying to discredit anything. The results of this study are indeed pointing toward Global Warming although not the cause. The realty, ONLY 2% of the data temp readings have been used at this point!!!!!
    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr...keley-20110404

    Also it has not passed peer review but is being touted as though it had!! Also it is does not address causes. Remember, it's the SUN stupid!

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/2...e-peer-review/

    To prove my points I would like to include an article on the Berkely study. It does not mention causes, does not mention very little of the data has been published or used yet, and does not state anything about peer review other than to say Watts is using it as a crutch!!. It calls Scientists like Watts every name in the book and a host of others trying to HELP this study (As you pointed out Weib.) as "deniers" constantly. It looks to me like those "deniers" were simply seeking the truth. Not nice and not good.

    http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/1...ing/?mobile=nc


    Now granted I used the word you as a broad sweeping term. You specifically have not tried to discredit this study, however Graycloud,Dave, and Texan have tried a smear style attack on it. It can be seen here http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,430398.0.html

    Second, yes it has not been peer reviewed fully, it is in the process of being reviewed, however do you not find it interesting that the Land data they used, matched up with the land data of the scientists who were touted as changing data.

    Third, many on here have said that even when data in the past was peer reviewed, that all of them were in on it and all of it was false.

    Fourth your article sounded like a big rant of that author.

    Fifth, You are right and I had stated in the original posting of the thread linked above that they do not state the cause of the warming, but it is showing that yes the world is warming.

    Sixth, yes only the LAND data has been analyzed, and they have yet to do the ocean data. This scientist thinks that when they do the water it will cancel out the heating of the land,but he is doing this as his hypothisis. His other hypothisis was that the land had not been warming at all, which by his papers was shown to be wrong. So here is what I am saying if the supposed data was fudged in the past for land and water, then an independent study shows so far the land data was not fudged, what evidence is there to say the water data was fudged? When they do compile all the data they will find that the scientists in the past had that information correct also.

    Now since we have a trend of warming since 1900 we will say. Now you may at this time not think that we humans have had any thing to do with the warming, ok, but many of the MMGW deniers also deny any form of Global Warming, man made or natural.
    Now many of you keep referencing the sun as heating us up, and as i have said in the past, has had an influence in the warming trend. Now ready for some data on the sun. Over the last century the sun has increased in activity, however since the 1970's it has been stable. Temperatures still sharply rose during the time of stability, so the Sun can play a roll, but is not the only cause. http://www.space.com/2942-sun-activi...-confirms.html

    Now i will reaferm my thinking, The earth has been warming and Humans have acted like a catalyst to the warming trend. now for those who don't know what a catalyst is here is the definition
    1. (Chemistry) a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without itself suffering any permanent chemical change
    2. a person or thing that causes a change

  7. #7
    Charter Member
    us
    Living the WP

    Apr 2006
    Chesterfield, Va.
    Whites XLT, Minelab Etrac, Minelab Excal II, At pro
    4,148
    1491 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Why so quiet?

    I stand by what I said, there are no accurate temp readings from 1800. Cycles of real Temperature changes within a 300 year range would be an absolute farce. If you were a scientist you could look at it this way, let us say 450 years,divided by age of earth 4.54 Billion years I think the statistical probability of that small a time frame would be negligible.

    How small a blip is that? It would not even be the size of a virus to you. How many Ice ages? How many warming periods? Haven't they found plant matter deep under the north pole?

    Let me tell you, you and I are no match to mother nature, Global warming folks feel a little too self important, a little too omnipotent and if the world heated up to 500 deg F or dropped to -500 deg F there would be;
    A, Nothing you can do about it,
    B, Nothing you did that caused it. We are simply not as important as the MMGW churchgoers think.

    Too Bad that religion has no self redemption or forgiveness tenet, because if it were to happen you would do better to bend over and kiss your buttocks bye bye and you will not forgive yourself even the the last few minutes of life.
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

  8. #8
    us
    Apr 2006
    Tennessee/Texas
    Minelab Sov / Fisher CZ-70 Pro/Fisher CZ 20
    928
    3 times

    Re: Why so quiet?

    Well Weib, now at least we are speaking of how you feel about something rather than a statement of how it is.

    You think that man is a catalist to Global Warming. I cannot agree. A catalist being an enhancer of a change means that Man is that. We may be a contrubuter, and that may very well be minimal, but if were talking a catalist to a chemical process your saying that the old MMGW theory is valid.
    Sorry, but I feel the jury is still out. Even the study you quote, and it very well may be the only study that can be used due to acacemic malfesience, does not address causes of warming or have a complete data set to work from...yet. The Berkely study also has not analized more than a small fraction of the data they have. It has a long way to go, but does present promise. Of course you do realize Berkely had scientist who used the data from climategate also, right??
    Regardless, by going out of house they have increased their credibility in my mind and this may have been the only way to have done that.
    Again, I cannot make the same assumputions as you. I will wait for the results.
    Arooooooo Wolf Pack

  9. #9
    us
    Jul 2010
    Missouri
    487
    2 times

    Re: Why so quiet?

    What many of you fail to remember when you look back at temperature data through out the history of the earth, Land masses move so a billion years ago florida was not where it is now, same with all land. So you can only go so far back to compare.

  10. #10
    us
    Apr 2006
    Tennessee/Texas
    Minelab Sov / Fisher CZ-70 Pro/Fisher CZ 20
    928
    3 times

    Re: Why so quiet?

    Quote Originally Posted by werleibr
    What many of you fail to remember when you look back at temperature data through out the history of the earth, Land masses move so a billion years ago florida was not where it is now, same with all land. So you can only go so far back to compare.

    Sorry, but Florida has not moved into another climate zone since 1700!!!!
    Arooooooo Wolf Pack

  11. #11
    us
    Jul 2010
    Missouri
    487
    2 times

    Re: Why so quiet?

    Quote Originally Posted by 21stTNCav
    Quote Originally Posted by werleibr
    What many of you fail to remember when you look back at temperature data through out the history of the earth, Land masses move so a billion years ago florida was not where it is now, same with all land. So you can only go so far back to compare.

    Sorry, but Florida has not moved into another climate zone since 1700!!!!
    You all want to use the entire earths history to say MMGW is not happening, but the tectonic plates move and enter new climate zones. eventually a super contenent will reform over the north pole.

  12. #12
    us
    Pronounced "Shadow" - ---= Wolfpack Forever! =---

    Sep 2011
    Southeast Arkansas
    Ace 250
    3,409
    1967 times
    Cache Hunting

    Re: Why so quiet?

    So, it that happens, will they all be crying about MMGCooling
    Know your homophones (as opposed to homophobes like me)! Know which ones to use ... and their meaning:

    "Know" is related to knowledge, while "No" is a negative response.

    "There" is a location, while "Their" shows possession and "They're" is the contraction of "They are".

    "Which" specifies an item from a set but a "Witch" casts spells and wears a pointy black hat.

    "Patients" (people receiving medical care) must show "patience" (tolerate delay).


 

 

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