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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    As a scientist, now retired, I have always formed conclusions based upon analysis of the evidence. It is discouraging to see that others don't care about evidence. Some say that we now live in a fact-free zone. I hope not. The evidence that the world is warming is absolutely indisputable. Thermometers and recording equipment have no motives or hidden agendas. Human lifespans are short, and yet, anyone paying the slightest attention to the facts and not to the politicians who are owned by polluters, and who has lived enough years (I am 64) has seen warming. Many species, especially ocean species are moving north.
    Unfortunately, some of us really do believe that. Personally, that is why I reject the "theories". As one of the mainstream's hero's said in his song Waiting On The World To Change:

    "Cause when they own the information, oh
    They can bend it all they want"

    That is how they can get polar opposite conclusions from the same information. Add to that the hacked emails (which I have a copy of) where they discuss how to make numbers say what they want and you can see what gives me pause when it comes to believing these charlatans who are simply looking for ways to move my money to their causes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Some of the fish I used to catch 50 years ago are far to the north, seeking the cooler temperatures they require. Fishing industries have been affected.
    This is more often related to over fishing. Saw the same thing in parts of the Gulf of Mexico. It's easy to blame other things when it's actually that the area was over fished. When you over fish an area, that area has fewer fish to catch, while the stragglers who were living in another area are said to have "moved to a cooler climate."

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    It is not a con.
    No, really it is a con job, A con job for POLITICAL power. A con job for taking your income and mine. A con job to make you believe these greedy folks actually care about the environment when they won't travel with the great unwashed masses and instead use their private jets to inefficiently travel while polluting the environment and spewing the same gasses they claim are causing the problem --- oh, but they pay someone else pennies a day to plant trees to "offset their carbon footprint." Funny thing is, no one knows who is planting them, where these trees are getting planted, or even what kind of trees are being planted. In addition, as a retired scientist you should know that such behavior is at least 1-2 DECADES away from having any effect. Who knows, by then they may blame their "oversight during the global warming mistake" for making the earth cooler by then, thus picking your pockets again.

    Why do the records world wide show increased temps? Perhaps because there are many more stations now, in more remote (read "near desert environments") areas. Many of the old stations have more asphalt and concrete nearby, which skews the temps as well. Even if the world were getting warmer (which it may be) it would more likely be linked to an outside influence. Something like, say, THE SUN --- not human activity.

    Then again, perhaps its a "sign" of the times we live in but I didn't read it in my copies of the good book. However, it did say that men would be lovers of money, lovers of themselves, greedy for dishonest gain, etc.
    Last edited by Chadeaux; Jul 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM.
    "When under trial, let no one say: 'I am being tried by God.' For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. . . . Do not be misled, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows." --- James 1:13, 16, 17

    A few of my favorite pix: https://www.500px.com/ccjr221

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kray Gelder View Post
    What you say is true. In 10 years will it be even warmer? I recall long cold spells, where lakes froze over ( Washington ) for a week or so. Will this happen again, or is this warming a permanent thing, and did man cause it? It has been MUCH warmer than this, millions of years ago, before man, and his evil ways, polluted the planet. THIS is the argument, is this warming period man caused, requiring a fossil fuel free economy, elimination of cheap transportation and heating, fueled industry, doing away with the synthetic fibers, chemicals, medicines, PLASTIC, modern housing, etc?

    Already, cons ( you don't like that term, but what else can you call it ) like carbon swaps, carbon credits, where governments or industries are forced to buy and sell air, exist. Now wind farms are causing noise pollution, local micro climates, and chopping birds out of the air. Solar industries are insidious producers of some of the most toxic of chemical wastes, alter vast land surface areas, and again, create micro climates. What about all the happy little lizards whose lives were destroyed by these projects?

    If we doubters of man-caused, end of the world climate change scenarios, consider the facts, and come to a different conclusion, that opinion is wrong. Science, which you retired from is a noble field, but is also a political field, where each "Scientist" hopes for a legacy, where their name is in print for centuries to come, where their peers speak of them in revered tones, where they crave approval for ideas, their work, their writings. One does NOT achieve this level of approval by being different. Group think is built in to your profession.

    There are ordinary citizens who have made it a point to educate themselves, who carry the knowledge, but not the institutional credentials that legitimize what they may believe or say. These people are a problem, a roadblock, to the "science" based political, and social agenda assaulting us today.
    Well written, but I respectfully disagree about your characterizations about science, scientists and the "group think". In 32 years working for the state and 14 years in private industry, I saw scientists chafe under politics. in my own case, I made the decision to sacrifice advancement by not buckling under to politics. I was not alone. I chose to be inclusive and included those with whom I might have assumed I would disagree in my younger days, into decision making. Including them improved knowledge, strengthened the final product and increased compliance with conservation measures. Doing so also exposed me to the politics of the day that fires those who support such inclusion in decision making. When I received an award for "democracy in conservation biology" by surprise (appropriately at Monticello), I understood that I would likely be fired by an administration that listens only to its campaign contributors, so I chose to retire instead. We live in a day when scientists are routinely fired for saying the words "climate change". I worked under probably the best Fish and Game dept director in the country. He was fired for saving the oyster through an innovative sanctuary design - by a governor who cared only about helping his constituents ignorantly fight to harvest the last oyster. Another gov't scientist friend was fired when she refused to falsify data to allow constituents to over-harvest small crabs. These people stood up for what was right and were fired for being honorable and doing the right thing. They, and many others, did not sacrifice truth for their survival.

    "What I believe" is the result of analyses of facts - real data. If you are ever falsely accused of a crime, I hope that you have someone like me on the jury who will listen to facts before deciding your fate.
    Last edited by Megalodon; Jul 29, 2019 at 12:54 PM.


    Always do right; this will gratify some and astonish the rest.
    - Mark Twain


  3. #33
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    Chadeaux,
    I'm not going to attempt to argue with you. But I will point out that you are absolutely wrong about the motives and money aspect of science. I never made any real money in my scientific career. In addition, I knew early on, that if I chose to go into science, I would have to find some other way to support myself. To someone who was data-driven, I chose as a young man to learn how to invest. Contrary to popular opinion, it is the poor who must learn to invest, and I grew up dirt poor. Starting very slowly with the few dollars earned in a one-boy rare coin wholesale business at age 10, I began to invest in stocks. Fifty years later and my dividends and capital gains were rarely ever lower than my earned income from employment as a marine scientist. The gov't pay, and subsequent tiny pension, just enough to cover health insurance, was really a joke.

    As for your comment that species are not moving north, but are merely overfished, may I point out the inconvenient truth that mark & recapture studies have shown the northward movements. In addition, overfishing is a technical term that can be tested mathematically. I did such calculations for decades to examine if fisheries were either overfished or experiencing overfishing (two different things).

    I recognize that you hate scientists for some reasons of your own and that no amount of truth will ever change that. But hey, thanks for your hatred and lies.
    Last edited by Megalodon; Jul 29, 2019 at 01:25 PM.


    Always do right; this will gratify some and astonish the rest.
    - Mark Twain


  4. #34
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Chadeaux,
    I'm not going to attempt to argue with you. But I will point out that you are absolutely wrong about the motives and money aspect of science. I never made any real money in my scientific career. In addition, I knew early on, that if I chose to go into science, I would have to find some other way to support myself. To someone who was data-driven, I chose as a young man to learn how to invest. Contrary to popular opinion, it is the poor who must learn to invest, and I grew up dirt poor. Starting very slowly with the few dollars earned in a one-boy rare coin wholesale business at age 10, I began to invest in stocks. Fifty years later and my dividends and capital gains were rarely ever lower than my earned income from employment as a marine scientist. The gov't pay, and subsequent tiny pension, just enough to cover health insurance, was really a joke.

    As for your comment that species are not moving north, but are merely overfished, may I point out the inconvenient truth that mark & recapture studies have shown the northward movements. In addition, overfishing is a technical term that can be tested mathematically. I did such calculations for decades to examine if fisheries were either overfished or experiencing overfishing (two different things).

    I recognize that you hate scientists for some reasons of your own and that no amount of truth will ever change that. But hey, thanks for your hatred and lies.
    1. Do not hate either science or working scientists. I do, however, recognize that as with all fields of endeavor there are the workers --- and then there are the planners, strategists, and then those who occupy the highest positions who also have financial motives. These are the ones I despise, the ones I am referrencing. I also know that if the uderlings do not follow like lemmings --- if they dare to question --- they are usually punished by those seeking the favor of the leaders.

    2. "An inconvenient truth"? Watch out, you'll get Dave44 in here.

    3. Climate change will always happen. It was much hotter before humans showed up. The Gulf of Mexico once covered the land as far north as the Buffalo River in north Arkansas. We are simply along for the ride while the sun does its thing. That is, unless we have some sort of cataclysmic event, such as a nuclear war.

    Be well. We merely disagree, I'll leave rather than argue now.
    Last edited by Chadeaux; Jul 29, 2019 at 03:42 PM.
    "When under trial, let no one say: 'I am being tried by God.' For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. . . . Do not be misled, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows." --- James 1:13, 16, 17

    A few of my favorite pix: https://www.500px.com/ccjr221

  5. #35
    Charter Member
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    If I am not mistaken, the day the earth's climate stops changing ...it's over
    Chadeaux likes this.

  6. #36
    us
    May 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kray Gelder View Post
    What you say is true. In 10 years will it be even warmer? I recall long cold spells, where lakes froze over ( Washington ) for a week or so. Will this happen again, or is this warming a permanent thing, and did man cause it? It has been MUCH warmer than this, millions of years ago, before man, and his evil ways, polluted the planet. THIS is the argument, is this warming period man caused, requiring a fossil fuel free economy, elimination of cheap transportation and heating, fueled industry, doing away with the synthetic fibers, chemicals, medicines, PLASTIC, modern housing, etc?

    Already, cons ( you don't like that term, but what else can you call it ) like carbon swaps, carbon credits, where governments or industries are forced to buy and sell air, exist. Now wind farms are causing noise pollution, local micro climates, and chopping birds out of the air. Solar industries are insidious producers of some of the most toxic of chemical wastes, alter vast land surface areas, and again, create micro climates. What about all the happy little lizards whose lives were destroyed by these projects?

    If we doubters of man-caused, end of the world climate change scenarios, consider the facts, and come to a different conclusion, that opinion is wrong. Science, which you retired from is a noble field, but is also a political field, where each "Scientist" hopes for a legacy, where their name is in print for centuries to come, where their peers speak of them in revered tones, where they crave approval for ideas, their work, their writings. One does NOT achieve this level of approval by being different. Group think is built in to your profession.

    There are ordinary citizens who have made it a point to educate themselves, who carry the knowledge, but not the institutional credentials that legitimize what they may believe or say. These people are a problem, a roadblock, to the "science" based political, and social agenda assaulting us today.
    Institutional credentials? Yes, I have them, worked harder than you can imagine to earn them. I came from an environment in which I was groomed for war, sometimes brutally so and have always been ostracized for my pursuit of higher education. I excelled academically in an environment more hostile to independent thought than you can ever imagine. Despite obstacles, I will always be grateful for the professors, advisors and college deans who knew my story as an independent student and helped me. In the long process of achieving those credentials, I honed the the skills necessary to make very fine distinctions.

    By assuming that scientists are motivated by some sort of pursuit of fame, glory and money (hahaha), you expose yourself to making laughably false assumptions. Nothing could be further from the truth. Yes, I went the extra mile to publish scientific papers. That was done only to extend knowledge about the field. I got nothing from it. In fact it took time away from things I could have enjoyed. Deferred gratification is common in science and not something to ridicule. In time, when some of those papers were cited over 500 times, they became "landmark" studies and some were picked up by textbook authors or editors. When such books cite your name, it is not done to glorify the person, but to help the interested reader to find the primary reference for additional reading.

    Your concluding sentence appears to be inconsistent with what is actually occurring. The focus today is on punishing truth and those who use facts. Saying the word "climate change" can get you fired in every state gov't and the federal gov't today. In fact, a few state legislatures, owned by the oil & gas industry, have discussed making it a felony to say the words. Book burnings by the fascists can't be far behind.


    Always do right; this will gratify some and astonish the rest.
    - Mark Twain


  7. #37

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    I Wish I Could Blame it on Global warming.
    That would mean No Winter.
    Unfortunately, This is Global warming, As fall is Global Cooling & Winter Global Freezing.

    It's all about the Seasons

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    can't detect, But I Can't Detect in a Blizzard Either.
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