Global Warming

[aarthrj3811]

I was listening to the New. They told me that man made Global Warming had caused the ice in Greenland to melt. They had found a Viking town where the ice had melted. Gee…Did the smog make the ice melt there 600 years ago so they could build a town or was it that hot there 600 years ago? ..Art

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[Cannonman17]

There is a natural cycle to the warming and cooling in our planet and the entire cycle is very complex to say the least. For some reason people don't want to take any of the blame though... it's happened before, long before fossil fuels were being used en mass so what's the deal. Here's the deal- has there always been warm and cold cycles...even before the use of fossil fuels and the industrial revolution? Yes. Has it ever warmed up THIS fast? No. While the whole workings of the climatic machine are far from being completely understood there is no longer any doubt that humans have had a direct impact upon the process.

[Casull]

Has it ever warmed up THIS fast? No.

Interesting. Where did you get this bit of information? I didn't know that 1 degree in the last 100 years was that fast. Also, wonder how accurate the thermometers were 500 or 1,000 or 1,000,000 years ago.

[WindHarvester]

There is a natural cycle to the warming and cooling in our planet and the entire cycle is very complex to say the least. For some reason people don't want to take any of the blame though... it's happened before, long before fossil fuels were being used en mass so what's the deal. Here's the deal- has there always been warm and cold cycles...even before the use of fossil fuels and the industrial revolution? Yes. Has it ever warmed up THIS fast? No. While the whole workings of the climatic machine are far from being completely understood there is no longer any doubt that humans have had a direct impact upon the process.

Very well put, some people are blind to what is going on.

Lonnie

[Tubecity]

You have a point. But why does it all center around fossil fuels which can
greatly impact the working man & not around big business covering the land
with concrete, asphalt, Wal-Marts & so on. Or the millionaires many estates that
are heated & cooled when they are not there, their battleship sized yachts or private jets. When the elite are prepared to live by example then come talk to
us, otherwise stop looking for more ways to suck the life blood out of the
working class.

[Cannonman17]

Has it ever warmed up THIS fast? No.

Interesting. Where did you get this bit of information? I didn't know that 1 degree in the last 100 years was that fast. Also, wonder how accurate the thermometers were 500 or 1,000 or 1,000,000 years ago.

is right.

I'll take it back, new research shows that it warmed up this fast one time at the end of the last glaciation, it's called the methane gun theory- go read about it. Likewise you don't need a thermometer from 1,000 years ago, or 10,000 years ago to get an approximation of temperature, there's a number of ways they can figure it out, from gas bubbles trapped in the glacial ice sheets to pollen analysis of bog and lake sediments. And yes by the way, if you look at the over all picture, 1.5 degree warm up in less than a hundred years is fairly substantial... Go look at pictures of the polar ice caps from the last 20 years, only 20 years now mind you... and tell me nothing is going on.

[Cannonman17]

You have a point. But why does it all center around fossil fuels which can
greatly impact the working man & not around big business covering the land
with concrete, asphalt, Wal-Marts & so on. Or the millionaires many estates that
are heated & cooled when they are not there, their battleship sized yachts or private jets. When the elite are prepared to live by example then come talk to
us, otherwise stop looking for more ways to suck the life blood out of the
working class.

It doesn't all focus on fossil fuels but I think a good portion does, I can't think of anyting else that produces that much CO2. I don't agree though that it's just a working class problem... it impacts everybody (I think the working class takes the punches for most everything though) The thing that stinks IMO is it's the rich, well to do, lobbyists, politicians, oil companies, etc that are causing the pain for the middle class, we as a culture have the ability to make the necessary changes and have an ability to use more friendly energy sources (and at a reduced cost to the middle class) but that would stop the oil companies and company from stuffing there pockets and that's why they are not helping.

[Jeffro]

There is a natural cycle to the warming and cooling in our planet and the entire cycle is very complex to say the least. For some reason people don't want to take any of the blame though... it's happened before, long before fossil fuels were being used en mass so what's the deal. Here's the deal- has there always been warm and cold cycles...even before the use of fossil fuels and the industrial revolution? Yes. Has it ever warmed up THIS fast? No. While the whole workings of the climatic machine are far from being completely understood there is no longer any doubt that humans have had a direct impact upon the process.

False. There are several documented accounts of rapid warming and cooling cycles. Also, it depends on what data you choose to believe. MOST say we have risen 1 degree in 100 years. Boy, thats quick! Also, there is no baseline for what a "reasonable average temperature" actually is..... so with nothing to compare to, it comes down to some guys taking this little slice of history or that one to either support or deny global warming.

I will state one fact that is for absolute certain- There is no concrete proof of man made global warming, period.

[Jeffro]

You have a point. But why does it all center around fossil fuels which can
greatly impact the working man & not around big business covering the land
with concrete, asphalt, Wal-Marts & so on. Or the millionaires many estates that
are heated & cooled when they are not there, their battleship sized yachts or private jets. When the elite are prepared to live by example then come talk to
us, otherwise stop looking for more ways to suck the life blood out of the
working class.

It doesn't all focus on fossil fuels but I think a good portion does, I can't think of anyting else that produces that much CO2. I don't agree though that it's just a working class problem... it impacts everybody (I think the working class takes the punches for most everything though) The thing that stinks IMO is it's the rich, well to do, lobbyists, politicians, oil companies, etc that are causing the pain for the middle class, we as a culture have the ability to make the necessary changes and have an ability to use more friendly energy sources (and at a reduced cost to the middle class) but that would stop the oil companies and company from stuffing there pockets and that's why they are not helping.

Do you have any idea as to the signifigance of CO2 as a greenhouse gas?

[levis_dad]

I have a question---if there is so much CO2 being produced, and plants use CO2 to live and convert it back to O2, wouldn't that be beneficial to the rain forests and therefore beneficial to keeping the climate in line. Just a silly question from a simple country boy.

[Cannonman17]

There is a natural cycle to the warming and cooling in our planet and the entire cycle is very complex to say the least. For some reason people don't want to take any of the blame though... it's happened before, long before fossil fuels were being used en mass so what's the deal. Here's the deal- has there always been warm and cold cycles...even before the use of fossil fuels and the industrial revolution? Yes. Has it ever warmed up THIS fast? No. While the whole workings of the climatic machine are far from being completely understood there is no longer any doubt that humans have had a direct impact upon the process.

False. There are several documented accounts of rapid warming and cooling cycles. Also, it depends on what data you choose to believe. MOST say we have risen 1 degree in 100 years. Boy, thats quick! Also, there is no baseline for what a "reasonable average temperature" actually is..... so with nothing to compare to, it comes down to some guys taking this little slice of history or that one to either support or deny global warming.

I will state one fact that is for absolute certain- There is no concrete proof of man made global warming, period.

I am only familiar with one rapid warming event and there are a few cooling ones, mostly associated with large volcanic eruptions. I don't think this is about a little slice of history either but that's opinion. After all I'm no expert on the subject but it is interesting. So when you look at pictures of the ice caps melting like they have been in just the past twenty years you're not concerned at all? I find it to be alarming.
There is somewhat of a baseline for average temperature though.. if I remember right we are still below that average.

[Jeffro]

Do you also find the fact that the southern icecap is growing to be equally alarming?

[Cannonman17]

You have a point. But why does it all center around fossil fuels which can
greatly impact the working man & not around big business covering the land
with concrete, asphalt, Wal-Marts & so on. Or the millionaires many estates that
are heated & cooled when they are not there, their battleship sized yachts or private jets. When the elite are prepared to live by example then come talk to
us, otherwise stop looking for more ways to suck the life blood out of the
working class.

It doesn't all focus on fossil fuels but I think a good portion does, I can't think of anyting else that produces that much CO2. I don't agree though that it's just a working class problem... it impacts everybody (I think the working class takes the punches for most everything though) The thing that stinks IMO is it's the rich, well to do, lobbyists, politicians, oil companies, etc that are causing the pain for the middle class, we as a culture have the ability to make the necessary changes and have an ability to use more friendly energy sources (and at a reduced cost to the middle class) but that would stop the oil companies and company from stuffing there pockets and that's why they are not helping.

Do you have any idea as to the signifigance of CO2 as a greenhouse gas?

Yes, CO2 obsorbs solar radiation, it acts similar to glass in a greenhouse, obsorbs the heat but doesn't let it back out so well.

[Jeffro]

And do you know what is the most predominant greenhouse gas, and what the relationship is between Co2 and this gas?

[Cannonman17]

Do you also find the fact that the southern icecap is growing to be equally alarming?

It's not growing. They are constantly remaking the maps down there because what used to be peninsulas are now islands, ships are able to safely transverse areas that only a decade ago were covered by ice all year around.

[Cannonman17]

And do you know what is the most predominant greenhouse gas, and what the relationship is between Co2 and this gas?

The most predominate greehouse gas is CO2-
here
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/ggccebro/chapter1.html

Also here- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

[Jeffro]

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/envi...aterworld.html

[Jeffro]

And do you know what is the most predominant greenhouse gas, and what the relationship is between Co2 and this gas?

The most predominate greehouse gas is CO2-
here
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/ggccebro/chapter1.html

Also here- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

The most prominent greenhouse gas is water vapor. I have no idea of the ratio, but water vapor comprises something like 90 percent of all greenhouse gases combined. Which means CO2 is less than 10 percent. Thats one thing they leave out of these discussions when they attempt to scare the living daylights out of people.

[Cannonman17]

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/envi...aterworld.html

*whew* that was a lot of stuff to chew on in a short period of time. I did read most of it though. I believe this guy is just plain wrong to be honest. Like I said before, I'm no expert so when I find a subject like this I have an inclination to go with the 90% + of the scientists who believe it is. After skimming through it I did a search on the auther and couldn't find anything either which doesn't help me believe anything he has to say vs. all the universities out there stating different "facts".

Let me ask you a question, I'm not asking this in a snotty way at all and not looking for an argument, I'm just curious what you think. If there is no problem right now, all is fine and we (through use of fossil fuels) have either no or so little impact on climate do you propose that we keep going about our business as usual, not worry about other energy sources and disregard any "evidence" the scientists come out with as circumstantial?

[Jeffro]

You say that like all the scientists agree. In actuality, there are more scientists who are either undecided or are against the idea of man made global warming.

The scientists who espouse man made global warming are the very vocal minority.

A true scientist will examine data and report findings from that data. To believe man made global warming, you would have to work backwards to support the theory.

The "evidence" isn't really evidence at all if it can't support the theory is it?

Why do the leading climatologists disagree with the IPCC's "facts"?


As for me personally, I tend to take these things with a grain of salt. I see no need to panic and send my money to Al Gore or any other promoter of a sky is falling theory. Although a lot of people surely will. The man is getting rich of the carbon credit scam he has going. Nothing wrong with capitalism at its finest.

Much to the chagrin of radical environmentalists, I know of no one who is purposely out to destroy the earth. Me included.

I'm all for alternative energy. I'm all for 100 MPG cars. Or electric, or hydrogen fuel, or whatever. Efficiency is great. Thing is , all of these ideas have flaws. There is no perfect energy source.

But don't sell me a load of crap that its gonna save the planet.