Gold Lights / Flashes to Guide the Way to Riches???

[gollum]

Okay,

This subject has been brought up several times in other sections, but never a Thread devoted entirely to it, so I think some of our Miner/Prospector friends here might not have been able to chime in.

In the diaries of his travels in New Spain, Father Juan (Johan) Nentvig SJ (Jesuit) wrote about the silver and gold mines all over Pimeria Alta (Northern Mexico and Southwestern US). He wrote that during the rainy season, there were many flashes to show that there was still much gold and silver to be had.

I had heard about these stories for a long time, but didn't put much stock in them, until I met an old timer who makes the rounds to Stanton (Rich Hill), Rye Patch, etc. He actually had pictures of the lights. He sets up his video camera about dusk and leaves it running till after dark. He collects it and reviews the video. If he finds something, he gets a frame from the video and prints it. I have to say that I was impressed.

The theory is that gasses develop from the different minerals associated with the different types of ore (like arsenic in gold ore). During periods of high humidity/rain, as the sun goes down, the temps radically change. The pressure differential is so great that the gasses vent to the atmosphere and phosphoresce. Different minerals/ores give off different colored lights. That is the theory anyway.

Anybody have anything else to share? Pics maybe?

Thanks-Mike

 

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[AUDuke]

Re: Gold Lights / Flashes to Guide the Way to Riches!!!

by what i do know.and courage of conviction tempered by common cents.also,40 years in the dust,root hog or die.make money,or dont eat.am on the hill,it feeds me.the earth is my lunchcounter.am in debt to the earth and love it.for it taught me not to chase my tail.also,dont skinnydip with snapping turtles.hey,you asked

It was a rhetorical question, not requiring an answer.
When I was in my teens I thought I knew everything too, but afer spending over seven decades on this planet, I realize there are more questions than answers.

 

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[gollum]

Re: Gold Lights / Flashes to Guide the Way to Riches!!!

On another forum, I was given a clue to read the works of Robert Ware Fox, a Victorian English Geologist. He was the man who invented the idea of the Earth getting hotter the deeper you go.

While he doesn't write about "gold lights" he uses the Aurora Borealis as an example of his theory. Makes a lot of sense. I will try and explain it in a short version:

Veins of ore and minerals can run in depths of miles. The deeper you go, the hotter the Earth gets. Metals are very good conductors of heat. He also theorized that electricity ran around the Earth in belts from East to West. The hot waters that bubble up from deep in the Earth are also highly mineralized and in some cases contain large amounts of salts. Mineralized and salty waters are VERY good conductors of electricity. While he couldn't explain with certainty exactly how this creates the Aurora Borealis (this WAS in 1817), he theorized that there is likely a connection.

Some time later, Nikola Tesla not only theorized the existence of Aetheric Energy, he created several machines that harnessed it (including a car).

How does this have anything to do with lights/flashes appearing above metallic ore veins? Simple; different metals (in ore state) have certain minerals that are a constituent of their ores (i.e. Arsenic in Gold, etc). I think it is possible that the combination of heat and electricity when applied to a conductive vein of metallic ore may cause those associated minerals to outgas. Here is an example: When you apply heat to Mercury, you change its state from liquid to gaseous. A gas occupies a LOT more space than the same element in either liquid or solid states. So, if you have a liquid (say mercury) that occupies only enough space for it to fit underground, and its' state changes from liquid to gaseous (and greatly expands), it would seek a way to the surface and then OUTGAS!

Now, how a gas escaping into the atmosphere could form a light is the next hurdle. HAHAHA

Best-Mike

 

[bill-USA]

Re: Gold Lights / Flashes to Guide the Way to Riches!!!

I will be removing all of my posts in this thread, it is the only way to ignore the thread so if there is anything anyone wants copy it now, as I will remove it soon.
Oroblanco

Oro, I have to say as an objective (read ig.nor.ant) person that the response above does not at all fit my image of you. I believe that removing your posts would be a mistake.

There does not have be be agreement for those of us in igno.ance to learn. Granted there are superfluous (to me) contributions in this thread, I can't think of many where there are not.

If your contributions had value enough to make them in the first place, please see that those of us on the outside (learners) will lose by their removal.

Sincerely, please leave the thread intact. Drop out if you wish, but again please leave the thread intact.

Thanks for listening........ Bill

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Gold Lights / Flashes to Guide the Way to Riches!!!

Done, in strike-out. I will stay out of the discussion, unless further attacks on friends are posted.
Oroblanco

 

[bill-USA]

Re: Gold Lights / Flashes to Guide the Way to Riches!!!

Thank you, Sir!

 

[minetres]

Re: Gold Lights / Flashes to Guide the Way to Riches!!!

All,

I have seen these lights in two pictures from two diffrent cameras taken at a place my partner and I were at along with that we had monuments looking at the same area, we will be going back to that area with some detectors to find the exact spot. Both cameras were from diffrent angles and were diffrent types. The orbs as I call them were a greenish blue.

Minetres

 

[TURNMASTER]

Re: Gold Lights / Flashes to Guide the Way to Riches!!!

To all,

1st, when referring to the Lord Almighty, God is capitalized. It's a proper name.
2nd I am a pragmatic and practical (if not redundant) kind of guy. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.
3rd you all admit freely that there are things you CAN NOT explain. These lights MAY just be real.
4th science admittedly does not know everything (yet?). Yes scientists do keep secrets, politics and money are regularly involved.

Now then a good dose of HUMILITY could be used here by many, myself included. Who am I to lecture any of you successful prospectors.

Folks, there have been good points made and some not so well thought out. Decide for yourselves which you made.

Here is a thought that relates to the true premise of this topic... I think, as I am now kinda of confused as to what that was.
Platinum, Gold and Silver all have common properties. None readily decompose. However they all conduct electricity. They all act as catalysts. Now both of these properties COULD (conceivably) lend themselves to some of the phenomenon that have been discused. If you do not know what the properties of a catalyst are please look it up. Theory; As catalysts these precious metals could cause minerals in solution to convert to gas. Theory; As conductors these precious metals could cause a St Elmo's type of effect, while still locked in ore. Think about it.

I am not saying that I believe, but I am not ready to dismiss either.

Please gentlemen, and ladies, can we get back to the topic at hand and leave the bickering to a minimum. Even if these are just fanciful stories, they can at least be entertaining. To those newbs who choose to use these myths to chase there fortune, go for it. A dream is a terrible thing to waste.

The hunt is more important than the kill. Its the thrill of the chase.

Thank you all
Jeff

 

[gollum]

Re: Gold Lights / Flashes and Mineral Exhalations to Guide the Way to Riches

Notice that I changed the title a bit.

Since starting on this journey, I have learned that not only were lights/flashes used to find metallic ore bodies, the more popular way was to look for EXHALATIONS into the atmosphere of the gasses emitted from ore bodies (outgassing).I don't know if this IS or IS NOT related to lights/flashes.

Every treatise on mining back to the oldest known (Das Bergbuchlein ca.1505) includes mention of gasses exhaled from ore bodies.

Even Paracelsus in De Rerum Naturae, writes extensively about "exhalations of ores"

Best-Mike

 

[Bumpstick]

I can agree with TurnMaster about the precious metal ore's acting as catalysts and gassing off.
Spirits? I think science not mystery.
track down where people claim to see these orbs and look for something else.
Great thread.

 

[gollum]

I can agree with TurnMaster about the precious metal ore's acting as catalysts and gassing off.
Spirits? I think science not mystery.
track down where people claim to see these orbs and look for something else.
Great thread.

See, that's exactly what the Spanish did. During the rainy seasons, they would watch every mountain range for light flashes. Wherever they saw them, they would beat those mountains to death looking for other signs (mineralization, certain plants, misshapen/discolored trees, etc).

Best-Mike

 

[TerryC]

Hey guys,
Rhetoric and heavy remarks aside, I find this an interesting thread. The old timers knew what they were doing! One of Gollom's early posts hinted at mineralization and "foliage" as an indicator of a place of interest. It is still true today that hillside shelves with "different" growth than the surrounding dry stuff should be investigated. TTC

 

[TURNMASTER]

Man this is a good thread. I would like to get a copy of one or 2 of the books mentioned.

Wonder how they would apply further north

Jeff

 

[gollum]

Man this is a good thread. I would like to get a copy of one or 2 of the books mentioned.

Wonder how they would apply further north

Jeff

You can read De Re Metallica online at:

If you can read Latin

http://books.google.com/books?id=PU...resnum=2&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

English Translation

http://www.farlang.com/gemstones/agricola-metallica/page_001

To read "Rudo Ensayo" by Father Juan Nentvig SJ:

http://southwest.library.arizona.edu/rudo/

Some of the other books are old and very hard to find. Here are a couple of other quotes I have found:

Boyle 1661 "Sceptical Chymist"

Whether mists used to rise from grounds stored with minerals? Whether the place more than ordinarily subject to Thunder and Lightning.........as likewise to nocturnal lights and fiery meteors

Glauber 1750

The exhalations were known as "Witterung" and could be seen rising above vein outcrops. Glauber considered they gave rise to a blue flame, a sure indication of rich ore deposits.


Best-Mike

 

[Tarkus]

Couldn't resist throwing into this one, anyone ever consider Faraday and capacitance. Two conductors insulated from each other by a dielectric ie.. metal ore's insulated by quartz, build up an electrical charge,
add in moisture to allow the charges to equalize (discharge) possible light effect. Add in the properties of quartz crystals+electricity(piezio effect) and who knows what you might get. I appreciate science, yet it's still Gods creation and I would not assume to dictate what can or can't happen in it. (no mater how much I think I know)

Best of luck to all

 

[Old Dog]

Couldn't resist throwing into this one, anyone ever consider Faraday and capacitance. Two conductors insulated from each other by a dielectric ie.. metal ore's insulated by quartz, build up an electrical charge,
add in moisture to allow the charges to equalize (discharge) possible light effect. Add in the properties of quartz crystals+electricity(piezio effect) and who knows what you might get. I appreciate science, yet it's still Gods creation and I would not assume to dictate what can or can't happen in it. (no mater how much I think I know)

Best of luck to all

Piezio electricity !
A good point. occurs in many crystal minerals including tourmaline.

 

[gollum]

HHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.......................

Electricity and outgassing? A good possible source of nocturnal flashes of light.

So, how does this sound so far:

Heat and electricity working on gangue minerals most often associated with metal bearing ore veins, causes some of those minerals to change states (solid to liquid, liquid to gas). Since the same volume of mineral in a gaseous state occupies a MUCH greater area than the same in a liquid state, that gas would push its way through the smallest cracks to the surface as an outgassing. Occasionally during that process, the electricity may cause the gas to light, so it vents into the atmosphere as a flash of light.

Why the rainy season? Temperature differentials? Hot during the day, and rain cools everything quicker (especially at dusk). This might assist with the outgassing. Just a thought though. Remember, there are no documented studies (that I am aware of) that show a relationship between metallic ore veins and light flashes.

Best-Mike

 

[Old Dog]

HHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.......................

Electricity and outgassing? A good possible source of nocturnal flashes of light.

So, how does this sound so far:

Heat and electricity working on gangue minerals most often associated with metal bearing ore veins, causes some of those minerals to change states (solid to liquid, liquid to gas). Since the same volume of mineral in a gaseous state occupies a MUCH greater area than the same in a liquid state, that gas would push its way through the smallest cracks to the surface as an outgassing. Occasionally during that process, the electricity may cause the gas to light, so it vents into the atmosphere as a flash of light.

Why the rainy season? Temperature differentials? Hot during the day, and rain cools everything quicker (especially at dusk). This might assist with the outgassing. Just a thought though.

Best-Mike

The added static charge in the air durring a thunder storm would help as well.

 

[gollum]

Good thought!

Mike

 

[Old Dog]

Mike I know that in your part of the country there is such a thing as Virga.
This condition occurs here quite often.

Virga happens when the air against the ground is so warm,
that falling rain evaporates back into the clouds before it hits the ground.
Many times the condition is aggravated by lightning which is the cause of many of the recent California wildfires.
(but I digress)
When these conditions occur the charge in the air is absolutely amazing.
It literally stands your hair on end.
These conditions are called around the country as dry thunder storms.
I have been told by old timers that is the time to watch the countryside for these "Ghost Lights".

The only time I ever tried watching the rain came down so hard it made muddy rain,
it stirred up a cloud of dust in front of the falling rain and rained mud.

 

[DesertRat]

All I know is...anything is possible. I work in Palm Springs. One of my crew members told me the following story last year. This guy was on his way to work to Target. Just as darkness fell and the pounding rain stopped he suddenly stopped his car. Somewhere near the desert wash by 75145121201825 he saw a bright orange flame hovering over an area in the desert wash. He thought it was something on fire and was about to call 911. The flame dissolved and he went onto work. He told me about it the next day and he seemed really spooked by it. I told him what it might mean but he refused to have anything to do with it. And no he didn't go digging for it. Another desert mystery. Add it to all the others out here.