Question about Gold Rusah Alaska

[EvvAtty]

Hi everyone. I am a new member. I have a question about the Discovery Channel's Gold Rush Alaska show and I thought this would be a great place to ask it.

Is it just me or is there something very strange about the storyline with Dakota Fred buying the claim and "nullifying" the guys' lease? I am an attorney and although I have never seen a lease for gold mining, I have seen a lot of coal leases and oil and gas leases and that just simply isn't how they work.

First, although I know mineral leases area special breed, leases in general don't terminate just because the landowenr (or mineral owner) sells his interest. Why would Fred's buying the claim terminate the lease?

Second, mineral leases tend to be long term. Many of them have a long primary term and then coninue for so long as they continue to produce. The reason for this is because nobody in their right mind would invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in mining equipment and infrastructure if they only had a short term lease.

And third, it's my understanding that gold leases are a lot like coal and oil & gas leases in that the mineral owner (or claim owner) usually leases the property to an operator and reserves a royalty for himself. The royalty is simply a right to receive payment from a portion of the production. It doesn't usually include the right to terminate the lease, change its terms, etc.

I am sure that gold leases are different from coal and oil & gas leases, but the idea that the guys on Gold Rush had a lease for the property but it was nullfied simply because Fred "bought the claim" doesn't make any sense at all.

Does anyone here have any experience with gold leases? Is Discovery Channel making up sotrylines for dramatic effect?

[Klondikeike]

Hello EvvAtty ,

Welcome to Treasurenet....

Klondike here..

I've been in the prospecting and mining business for over 30 years... and much of what you say makes sense... I've done what they are TRYING to do... It's not easy under the best of conditions...

However, the problem with Todd and his group of green horns.. is that they missed at least one lease payment...who knows maybe . more.... Plus Todd never spoke to the owner to work something out over the off season (so it was said in the episode) and the owner who wasn't already happy with their mining experience level and progress... took actions accordingly...from his point of view...along with Fred feeding the fires, so to speak.. and being a bit of an opportunist...

I have to believe that if there had been some communication over the summer between the owner and Todd.. Fred wouldn't have had an opportunity to buy the claim...

Then again, I'm on the outside looking in on this specific mine, not really knowing all the details, except for what the producer wants us to know...after all it is all about ratings, advertising dollars...and entertainment...

Again welcome..


Klondike

[craftime78]

I think it is getting to be like a soap opera now. They have to have a change of plot, bring in new guests, including "the villain", and build suspense. I think a lot of it is even scripted. I'm sure they do cut out a lot of stuff since it is supposed to be a family show. If I was up there with a bunch of buddies I know I wouldn't want to see it on film. But then, we would actually be concentrating on getting all the gold we could "on the cheap" and probably wouldn't get any more sleep than needed. Granted, you have to spend money to make money, but keep it real and keep it fun as well. If you love what you're doing for a living, you never "work" a day in your life.

[latnem]

Klondike has it right I think. During the show they said Todd had missed a payment which can and normally does nullify a lease (from what I understand)

Still a very shady thing to do I think, why not let these guys mine there for one more summer. Dakota Fred worked along side them and knows they put in hard work for a season and are all broke. If they are as bad of miners as Dakota Fred claims then let them dig for another summer and then re-run their tailings.... He's shady and knows they finally got to the gold.

[diggummup]

Klondike has it right I think. During the show they said Todd had missed a payment which can and normally does nullify a lease (from what I understand)

Still a very shady thing to do I think, why not let these guys mine there for one more summer. Dakota Fred worked along side them and knows they put in hard work for a season and are all broke. If they are as bad of miners as Dakota Fred claims then let them dig for another summer and then re-run their tailings.... He's shady and knows they finally got to the gold.

I agree, I think it was a scumbag move on Dakotas part.

[DigginThePast]

I wonder if Fred would have pulled that stunt the same way if he wasn't afforded the protection of having a film crew present.

[Hoser John]

NOT a stunt--it's called law and you DO NOT pay ---you lose---plain and simple on every facet of life-- John

[diggummup]

NOT a stunt--it's called law and you DO NOT pay ---you lose---plain and simple on every facet of life-- John

Regardless it was still a SCUMBAG move! Besides ('in every facet of life') everything is not always so cut and dry (unless you are not human). There called extenuating circumstances.

[DigginThePast]

NOT a stunt--it's called law and you DO NOT pay ---you lose---plain and simple on every facet of life-- John

Obviously.

Anyway, Fred knew full well what he had planned and still let the Hoffman crew back up there and get settled in with even more equipment. The Hoffman's voided the contract by not paying on time. That should be clear to anyone but it would have been the decent thing to do if Fred told them ahead of time.

Again, without the film crew there he may have thought second before handling it the way he did. Out there in the middle of nowhere with that equipment.....

[rebel003]

It depends on what type of lease they signed and for what duration. If it was a year lease then the owner has every right to renew or discontinue the lease. The Hoffman’s should have at very least contacted the owner prior to heading back to the property.
In my observations neither the Hoffman’s nor Dakota Fred seem up to the challenge of setting up an operation that will turn a profit for all involved.

[diggummup]

It depends on what type of lease they signed and for what duration. If it was a year lease then the owner has every right to renew or discontinue the lease. The Hoffman’s should have at very least contacted the owner prior to heading back to the property.
In my observations neither the Hoffman’s nor Dakota Fred seem up to the challenge of setting up an operation that will turn a profit for all involved.

Now this I can agree with, especially that last statement!

[markmopar]

Fred told them up front last season he wanted to mine there with his own crew.
Todd said he never didn't want to mine there again, he wanted to go to Canada and ASKED to be let out of the lease. The whole missed payment thing is all TV.
Word is that someone went and checked land records and claims that Fred actually bought the claim with a partner in 2006 but it isn't substantiated yet.
The real gold mine is the network, not the mining. It's all scripted from the get. Todd actually pitched the show as many as 5 times before they came up with a format that RAW TV liked.

IMO, I think the Schnable kid is going to out mine all of them using the tailings of his grandpop's operation. If the Hoffman crew had any sense they'd do the same to their claim. That old dredge left behind a LOT of gold.
I wish I had that kind of opportunity...

[GrayCloud]

That was a very old Bucket Line Dredge. I would not be surprise if 50% of the gold is still in the Tailing Piles, but what is the history of the Piles? Have Tailings been reworked over the last 60 or so years?

[snakeyes]

I left Fred a message on his face book page, maybe he'll drop by and clear up a few questions

[snakeyes]

Fred wrote me back and came over here and looked at the post here's a C & P of his reply to me, I have to say it was very nice of him to take the time

Hi Martin,
Fred Hurt commented on your link.
Fred wrote: "Martin, I looked at site and am not able to post (Don't know How) I can say the EVVatty is right on. However I am not permitted to give certain important details because I am under a non-disclosure agreement with Discovery."

[jjfish1]

Hello, I think this question has been answered well and I would just ad correct the lease payment was apparently not made by TH and just for the record there was that little episode with a bear being hunted from the claim which is illegal as is running any other business for profit on a AK. State Gold Claim unless classified different and I would presume that the federal law would be the same or very similar.

[1972buick455]

Klondike has it right I think. During the show they said Todd had missed a payment which can and normally does nullify a lease (from what I understand)

Still a very shady thing to do I think, why not let these guys mine there for one more summer. Dakota Fred worked along side them and knows they put in hard work for a season and are all broke. If they are as bad of miners as Dakota Fred claims then let them dig for another summer and then re-run their tailings.... He's shady and knows they finally got to the gold.

Sorry to disagree but worked hard? They spent half the time building cabins! (I guess that is work but not at mining, at building cabins) I didn't get why, if the season's so short you would waste most of it building when you have a motor home. Get to business!!!

[gauge]

The way i see it is Todd Hoffman was under contract with Discovery Channel to give them a show. He knew he was getting the boot from the porcupine mine , and was looking for a new sight to mine. How could he mine two sights 500 miles apart with the crew he has? The hero , villain scenario makes for good television.
I am sure by the end of the season they will all be bar room buddies.