Fluid Bed Prototype

[nickmarch]

Hello All!

I made a prototype fluid bed and tested it with a measured amount of -100 gold. I did not video running that material. I tried to run the material again with a hose attached to the house. There wasn't enough flow for it to work so I shot a video of the basic punch plate classifier I used.

Now that I know it works I will make a classifier that is hands off. You can shovel into the final classifier. I'll get out ASAP and push it to it's limit to see just how much material can be run and how fast it can be run. I'll post that video when I can.

You can see it at...

 

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[nickmarch]

I use a 20x jewelers eye to confirm everything I think is gold. Yes, magnification is a must.

As far as flow rate requirements, this changes depending upon how much and how heavy the material is in the fluid bed. On my small one I have to turn up the water as it begins to fill with super heavies to keep it displacing properly. Makes me wonder how much you will have to increase yours given its depth.

Does your small one pump in the water from the bottom? Pump from the bottom and you wont have that problem.

Try making one like this...

Three 5 gallon buckets.

Pump water in from the bottom bucket.

Drill a bunch of tiny holes in the middle bucket. (bottom & sides)

Drill 1/8" holes in the top bucket. (bottom & sides)

Shovel (unclassified) like a mad man into the top bucket. Stop occassionally to pull & dump the top bucket. Scan what you dump with a metal detector.

As you shovel the lightest materials will flow out the top. Basically inputting material will help discharge the lighter stuff allowing less water flow.

 

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[John-K]

Does your small one pump in the water from the bottom? Pump from the bottom and you wont have that problem.

Try making one like this...

Three 5 gallon buckets.

Pump water in from the bottom bucket.

Drill a bunch of tiny holes in the middle bucket. (bottom & sides)

Drill 1/8" holes in the top bucket. (bottom & sides)

Shovel (unclassified) like a mad man into the top bucket. Stop occassionally to pull & dump the top bucket. Scan what you dump with a metal detector.

As you shovel the lightest materials will flow out the top. Basically inputting material will help discharge the lighter stuff allowing less water flow.

When you say bottom and sides, are still meaning only about a an inch or so up sides in middle bucket? Top bucket to assist as a concentrator?

Are you securing the middle bucket with screws or letting weight of material hold stuff down?

Time to make some prototypes....

Here is another video of a different approach off of youtube:

It makes me wonder if the 1/2 height 5 gallon bucket approach might allow for cleaning of waste material with less water pressure.

Would like to see more details on the Hydro setup, do you think the single point of water entry at bottom is same/equal as the multiple holes spread across?

 

[John-K]

Awesome job! Just 1 point which really has nothing to do with the construction but of its use... In the first few seconds of video when you were putting dirt on the punch plate you had a lot of floating material.. You may not want to run dry material like that.. You can very easily be floating the gold right off. Look at the surface of the water as the dirt is added and worked, you can see some of it float and drain off.

I made a small fluid bed to run test sample in. It catches 90% and better of the gold, flake and gold so small it is barely visible to the naked eye, and I have good eyes..

Well the video made me interested in what was happening, but either my inexperience is showing or I just couldn't see enough of the setup to really understand how it was all working. Other then then using screen material at top. :-) Do you have any more details that might help the newbies like myself understand what we are seeing? Maybe a full picture or two to show whole process?

Thanks!

 

[John-K]

Well to answer my own questions of how it works, I found this video later.... :-)

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

And then there's this one

 

[nickmarch]

When you say bottom and sides, are still meaning only about a an inch or so up sides in middle bucket?

I'd go a few inches up the side.

Top bucket to assist as a concentrator?

Not a concentrator. It would classify.

Are you securing the middle bucket with screws or letting weight of material hold stuff down?

I've never made one but am thinking screws wouldnt be needed with low water flow.


It makes me wonder if the 1/2 height 5 gallon bucket approach might allow for cleaning of waste material with less water pressure.

I always go bigger. I would use a bigger container. Are you trying to match a container to a specific pump?

Would like to see more details on the Hydro setup, do you think the single point of water entry at bottom is same/equal as the multiple holes spread across?

A single entry would be fine if there was a funnel at the bottom. It's actually what I'm playing with now.


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[nickmarch]

The gold reaper looks like it works fine but being the maniac I am I would go nuts using a tiny shovel. For me bigger is always better. The more material you can process fast the better!

Read the Dukes e sludge tank patent...

Method and apparatus for separating gold and other heavy materials from ore

http://www.mine.mn/Robin_Grayson_gold_recovery_method25.pdf

You want the consistency of quick sand/mud in your fluid bed.

 

[nickmarch]

John-K,

I just watched your video.

Try this with the setup you showed in the video...

Fill the bucket almost to the top with material and then turn on the water. As it runs add more material. You want the consistency of quick sand/watery mud.

It's going to seperate by specific gravity in the bucket. As you add more material the lighter stuff has to flow out the top. The water flow and adding material is going to force the lighter/less specific gravity stuff to pour out the top.

 

[calisdad]

Thanks for a great thread and ideas. I'd be interested in the final cleanup process. I've been finding fine gold but can seem to even get it out of the pan. How do you concentrate and recover the really fine stuff?

thanks-

 

[John-K]

John-K,

I just watched your video.

Try this with the setup you showed in the video...

Fill the bucket almost to the top with material and then turn on the water. As it runs add more material. You want the consistency of quick sand/watery mud.

It's going to seperate by specific gravity in the bucket. As you add more material the lighter stuff has to flow out the top. The water flow and adding material is going to force the lighter/less specific gravity stuff to pour out the top.

Actually at this time none of the videos are mine, all pulled from Tnet links/youtube. Everytime I think I have an idea that I want to implement I see a variation that makes me go, hmmm.... Is that a more efficient way :-)

I am trying to stay with a lower power pump for carrying and 12v use. 1000gph or so, I may end up looking for a 2000gph size if absolutely needed. Water is an issue and where I want to use it requires bringing it with me so trying for portability. May end up building multiple setups one for field and less water flow and one for home where power/water is of less concern. :-)

The hardcore of course are gas operated and running 100s of feet of hose but I am not ready for that. I wish there were places less then 2 hours travel from here, but reading some people who go 1000s of miles I should be happy! :-)

Your funnel posting from earlier has made me think of that as an in implementation. So many way to play!

 

[John-K]

Thanks for a great thread and ideas. I'd be interested in the final cleanup process. I've been finding fine gold but can seem to even get it out of the pan. How do you concentrate and recover the really fine stuff?

thanks-

I was looking at the blue bowl options for recovery but the Miller Table implementations with using hobby mat are now intriguing. But with no practical experience the search option has been my only experimenting. :-)

 

[nickmarch]

I'm trying the funnel because it can be drained from the bottom. With a thick quick sand type consistency in a bucket or other large container you have a lot of crap on top of the gold. With the funnel it would be easier to get the gold without all the crap.

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

(not me)

[edit] And as I watch that again, I recall ideas I had watching it the first time. See, there's nothing stopping float gold from riding the water out the exit (or possibly heavier gold that can't sink due to particle size in the trap, I don't know, I'm not a fluids engineer). So the first thing I thought of was putting a settling bar across the roof to force the water and material down into the bed.

Then I thought, why not put the spraybar there, and use a water curtain to force material down.

Then I was mulling the settling bar idea and thought if you put it into the trap more, you end up with the underflow sluice.

So I'm currently working on a sluice test jig that would allow easy swapping of iders.

 

[John-K]

I'm trying the funnel because it can be drained from the bottom. With a thick quick sand type consistency in a bucket or other large container you have a lot of crap on top of the gold. With the funnel it would be easier to get the gold without all the crap.

I think that Gold Reaper video up above has something similar to the funnel type exit. Would be worth a test if you have the materials to play with!

I know you prefer the bigger means more material approach, would keeping a wide container but more shallow allow for more of the waste materials to blow out? Instead of an entire 5 gallon bucket just 2-3 inches of depth with the standard width? Especially with your implementation of many many holes spread across the bottom.

I guess it would matter on how much material you plan on pushing through without cleaning it out... I am still at the shovel stage and not of a back hoe status. :-)
Is the 1000gph too small to play with for bucket size fluid bed?

 

[nickmarch]

So the first thing I thought of was putting a settling bar across the roof to force the water and material down into the bed.

Then I thought, why not put the spraybar there, and use a water curtain to force material down.

Then I was mulling the settling bar idea and thought if you put it into the trap more, you end up with the underflow sluice.

So I'm currently working on a sluice test jig that would allow easy swapping of iders.

There are so many different things that can be done and all would probably work to some degree.

You could use a shallow pan. You could use a storage container with a wall in the middle (or somewhere) to force everything to move under the wall. You could tilt a container so the heavies all go to one corner and put a drain in that corner.

Use your imagination and then try it out!

Get a lead weight and file it down. Weigh the filings and dump them into your setup to see how much you get back. If you get close to all the lead you will get close to all the gold!

 

[nickmarch]

I think that Gold Reaper video up above has something similar to the funnel type exit. Would be worth a test if you have the materials to play with!

I know you prefer the bigger means more material approach, would keeping a wide container but more shallow allow for more of the waste materials to blow out? Instead of an entire 5 gallon bucket just 2-3 inches of depth with the standard width? Especially with your implementation of many many holes spread across the bottom.

I guess it would matter on how much material you plan on pushing through without cleaning it out... I am still at the shovel stage and not of a back hoe status. :-)
Is the 1000gph too small to play with for bucket size fluid bed?

I dont use a back hoe but woud like too! 1,000 gph is probably too much water for a 5 gallon bucket but there is only one way to find out. Try it.

 

[John-K]

So tonight I have this incredible urge to take a wide mouthed liter bottle or 2 liter bottle, cut the bottom off, flip it upside down in a small bucket with the top through the bottom of the bucket and sealed so I could pump water through it and see how it does as an experimental fluid bed. If only I had a bottle... I do have access to some 24 ounce size but I want a bigger play area to test....

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

So tonight I have this incredible urge to take a wide mouthed liter bottle or 2 liter bottle, cut the bottom off, flip it upside down in a small bucket with the top through the bottom of the bucket and sealed so I could pump water through it and see how it does as an experimental fluid bed. If only I had a bottle... I do have access to some 24 ounce size but I want a bigger play area to test....

 

[John-K]

So awhile back I threw together a basic dual bucket implementation that my son and I could play with. First test failed due to power source and pump not working out. Later we set up at home with some buckets we brought back and on my second run of the bucket I was still finding a lot of black sand. Curious if this was mainly due to the feed process since it pretty much feeds right into the top which of course is also the exit area...

Well this stinks application crashes everytime I try to load pictures....

It is basicaly 2 1 gallon buckets from the dollar store. They fit together perfectly to allow water to be pumped into the lower and the top to have the bottom with holes. Then where the top bucket's sides are elevated above the lower bucket I have 6 slots cut out all around the rim for exit of water.

 

[John-K]

Well it seemed to post the pics even though the app failed so here is a picture of my son in his command seat. :-)