Getting material out of a moving stream without a dredge??

[EngiNerd]

Hello all!

This is sort of a continuation of an earlier post, but it can stand on its own.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/p...t-gold-panning-trip-gravel-bar-questions.html

So, I went back to the same spot as before, but I moved up stream, to right in front of this bridge (see first photo in previous post). There are a couple of large rock sticking up in front of the tunnel, and thought that would be a good place to dig. However, it became very apparent that getting the material out without it washing off the shovel is going to be a challenge. Another fella came by, and he made the same comment on a spot further down stream; good spots behind large rocks (and right near some bedrock), but the material washes off his shovel. I was able to get a small pan right in behind the rock, and get some material in the pan, using my hands. After panning it out, I might have found one spec of color, but I would not bet on it (I put it in a bottle anyways to look at later).

Here is my question: Are there any tip/trick/suggestions for getting material from behind a rock in the middle of a fast moving stream ?? I know the most obvious answer is to use a dredge, but being on federal lands, they are prohibited (well, the rules says nothing mechanized or motorized; I wonder if a gravity dredge would be allowed?? .) Could one try submerging a sluice box? (I googled that, but did not see much on it). Is there a ways to capture that material, and then pan it on the shore? I figured someone here has dealt with this problem before . . . I know...they probably used a dredge!

Thanks for any feedback!

EngiNerd

 

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[EngiNerd]

Jared,

I would seriously reconsider where you might place holes in the bucket! I say this, because you risk losing Gold laden material as the material can flow out of the holes and downstream.

Frank,

Well, that is why I wanted the holes to be pointed up, so any material that did flow out would be the lighter material (heavier material should sink to the bottom; think of the fluid bed concept). In this configuration, the water and material would come in the bucket, through a classifier, and then water would flow out the back top (relativity speaking because the bucket is on its side) and the heavier material would sink to the bottom. And with a limited number of hole, the water flow would be slower than the stream, but enough to push the material though the classifier and into the bucket (well, at least in theory should!). I imagine I would have to clear the classifier after 2 or 3 shovel fulls, and would need to be careful, as I might wash material out when I try to clear it. It is all a work in progress in my head! If I get around to making it, I will send you a photo (pics can say a thousand words!)

And yea, large rocks to hold it in place ain't a bad idea either!

Thanks!

Jared

 

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[huntsman53]

Frank,

Well, that is why I wanted the holes to be pointed up, so any material that did flow out would be the lighter material (heavier material should sink to the bottom; think of the fluid bed concept). In this configuration, the water and material would come in the bucket, through a classifier, and then water would flow out the back top (relativity speaking because the bucket is on its side) and the heavier material would sink to the bottom. And with a limited number of hole, the water flow would be slower than the stream, but enough to push the material though the classifier and into the bucket (well, at least in theory should!). I imagine I would have to clear the classifier after 2 or 3 shovel fulls, and would need to be careful, as I might wash material out when I try to clear it. It is all a work in progress in my head! If I get around to making it, I will send you a photo (pics can say a thousand words!)

And yea, large rocks to hold it in place ain't a bad idea either!

Thanks!

Jared

I understand what you are saying and it will probably work! However, be aware that some Gold Flakes when brought up from the bottom, will actually float. For this reason, I wash out all of my' bucket's, classifiers, Gold Pans and even shovels with a good grease cutting dishwashing liquid as any grease or oil on or inside them, could possibly get on the Gold Flakes and make them float more readily.

As far as trying to classify it to the bucket laying on the bottom, it will be hard to do! It would be best to shovel everything into the bucket on the bottom, then classify this into a bucket onshore. You would want to drill holes about 2 inches from the top of the buckets you plan to classify into, so that the water will not overwhelm the classifier and make the material hard to process into the bucket.


Frank

 

[Goodyguy]

There's a pic of a modified shovel (2 inches welded to three sides of shovel) posted yesterday by tweeta bear at 6:08 pm on this prospecting page. Some
miners say it really improves the retention of gravel when digging under water.

Works awesome and easy to make...........



Could not imagine leaving home without it.

GG~

 

[EngiNerd]

I understand what you are saying and it will probably work! However, be aware that some Gold Flakes when brought up from the bottom, will actually float. For this reason, I wash out all of my' bucket's, classifiers, Gold Pans and even shovels with a good grease cutting dishwashing liquid as any grease or oil on or inside them, could possibly get on the Gold Flakes and make them float more readily.

As far as trying to classify it to the bucket laying on the bottom, it will be hard to do! It would be best to shovel everything into the bucket on the bottom, then classify this into a bucket onshore. You would want to drill holes about 2 inches from the top of the buckets you plan to classify into, so that the water will not overwhelm the classifier and make the material hard to process into the bucket.


Frank

Frank,

Thanks for your feedback. I figured if it's not going to work (classifying on the bottom), it would become apparent real quick. Good idea on the hole, too; thanks!

Jared

 

[EngiNerd]

Works awesome and easy to make...........

Could not imagine leaving home without it.

GG~

Hello GG!

Nice shovel! I might have to find someone around here that could modify a shovel like that for me. I have no metal working skills or equipment at all!

Thanks!

Jared

 

[EngiNerd]

So, I sent an email to the Uwharrie Ranger station, about using a hand operated dredge or a gravity dredge. Their answer was not a surprise:

Sir, you cannot use a dredge of any kind on the forest. Motorized or non-motorized.

Like i said; Doesn't hurt to ask (usually!!)

Jared

 

[KevinInColorado]

So, I sent an email to the Uwharrie Ranger station, about using a hand operated dredge or a gravity dredge. Their answer was not a surprise:

Like i said; Doesn't hurt to ask (usually!!)

Jared

Makes sense sort of but I doubt they have a hand pump in their mind when they say 'NO'. Might still be worth showing up at the ranger office with it in hand to show it to them. A hand pump moves less material than a shovel so it's hard to argue that it has a negative impact vs other hand tools. As soon as you say 'dredge' the rangers clench up ;-)

 

[huntsman53]

I wonder what they would say about using a highbanker and only pumping water from the stream and dumping the output water and material well away from the stream??!! I doubt that they would allow this either but it doesn't hurt to ask.


Frank

 

[EngiNerd]

Might still be worth showing up at the ranger office with it in hand to show it to them.

I wonder what they would say about using a highbanker and only pumping water from the stream and dumping the output water and material well away from the stream??!! I doubt that they would allow this either but it doesn't hurt to ask.

LOL! Guys, if I keep asking all these questions to the Ranger, I think they are going to ask me to check in before I go out panning, just to make sure I only have a shovel, buckets, a classifier, and a pan! Thanks for the suggestions, though! I think I will do just fine with what I have. However, a specialized shovel would be nice to have. I need to check with the household "Chief Financial Officer" to see if that can be worked into the budget!

Jared

 

[KevinInColorado]

Good luck with that Jared!

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

I wonder what they would say about using a highbanker and only pumping water from the stream and dumping the output water and material well away from the stream??!! I doubt that they would allow this either but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Frank

Our 'pan only' area you can't even have a rocker box. I figured buckets would be ok, but I sure ain't going to go asking about it.

Mechanical Equipment and Mining Aids Include: Sluice boxes, dry washers, gold screws, gold bugs, rocker boxes, wheel barrows or other devices designed to increase production above that level obtained with gold pans and hand tools.

 

[GrizzlyGremlin]

Ill take a stab. If cleaning bedrock its about planning your dig. Use FLAT shovels once the bedrock is exposed. Dig from the high point on bedrock down to to the water line. Clean all dry exposed bedrock with gently poured water. Try to wash all your material into one place. When you get into the water clean the bedrock with a spade and then use10' of 1 1/4" vinyl tubing in your mouth as a small mouth powered dredge to suck up the last bits. Being tenacious on getting all the material directly on bedrock can have big outcomes.

 

[KevinInColorado]

A turkey baster works good too...just don't use it on a turkey after that!! ($1 at the dollar store)

 

[EngiNerd]

Our 'pan only' area you can't even have a rocker box. I figured buckets would be ok, but I sure ain't going to go asking about it.

Wow! Sounds like the rules where you're at is tighter than ours. Good luck!!

Jared

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

Looking for steel troughs, cans and pails, I ran across a pail scoop at grainger. Here's the amazon link:

Westward 13A621 Bucket Scoop, 25x7 In, Red, Stl, w/2 Holes: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

 

[ScottC]

Sounds like a job for the BucketDigger. Its been available for about 3 years now at www.bucketdigger.com and its only $39.95, for now it only comes with a 24 inch handle length,, but you can modify it with a longer handle. If you do though, its tougher to manuver around, the 24 inch handle length is the optimum length for the most efficient use. And its built dam sturdy too. I've been using one for 3 years now and its holding up quite nicely. It also fits nicely into a 5 gallion bucket.

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

 

[huntsman53]

How about a battery operated Tonka Excavator?


Frank

 

[bedrock bubba]

You don't have any rights when you have to ask and beg the government for those rights!By doing that, now you are playing their game, as they make up any rules they want to, to oppress you!

Question authority!

Where do they get the authority to make up such onerous rules?

Its like when I asked Ranger Rick, how was it possible to pan for gold, with the "hands in the pan" rule on Kalifornia State Park land.

He replied; " It isn't! Now do you get it?" he says. As his vicious German Shepard strained at the leash to rip me to peices!

Yeah, I DO get it. This is how a Nazi Police State operates!

 

[EngiNerd]

Hello GG and ScottC,

Ok, so forgive me for my ignorance, but how do you use these bucket shovels?? Is it similar to what jcazgoldchaser is showing in his photo? Do you put the open face down, and then pull the handle towards you??

Thanks!

Jared