*****HELP I NEED HELP GOLD PROSPECTORS solving a problem********

[keepmehumblelord]

Hi everyone I am in the process of starting up a small mining operation with a backhoe loader and going to have a 10ft sluice and somehow put a 6ft box over the sluice with a grizzly. Im going to be mining in arizona so water is a issue because to get to my claim id feel safe hauling no more then 200 gallons in at a time. I am allowed a 10x10 settling pond but anything bigger then my bond permit will sky rocket. I have choosen weaver creek in arizona for my claims. I have 60 acres their and it is all in the weaver creek. Excellent ground. For some reason the old timers left the red pay layer on the sides of the old ancient river bed. gold gold gold all in their. i have sampled and its coarse and wirey gold. anyways im on here for a reason. I have till january to come up with a game plan. i am filing for a reclamation bond to use a small backhoe loader. my issues and problem to solve is this: it costs 3000 to rent a backhoe loader and thats only a 35horse machine. its 3500 for the bigger one. I have to have everything in place before i rent the machine as the cost is riduculous and i have not looked for any other investers besides my good friend who is putting up 10k with his money returned and 5k for putting up the money and a recurring 15% as long as i gold mine. The deal kinda sucks cuz 10% i would be fine with and 10k returned. Hes looking at it from a lossing point of view for his sake. Anyways thats one issue im dealing with as 15% can be a 150,000 in a million a year operation but i will be 100,000 1 year running operation approx. Of course this is a approx could be less could be more. 40 acres of my claim is all pay dirt. other claim is directly 20 acres in the main creek thats flowed over the past 100 years and been worked but not all of it. I also have red pay dirt on approx 5 acres of this claim. their is approx 5 acres of not worthy mining it and 10 acres of good massive gravel beds that have only been poked around on from the old membership club that use to own it. I have already invested all my money 7000 and i bought a 4x4 vehicle a pop up camper and a small highbanker pump generator. well with the 10k i can start and run for 1 month and then the money is out. I figured 4 grams a day would cover cost so 8 grams is the goal per day at first going then i hope to get 3 runs a day for 24 grams a day. I am allowed to dig a 12x12x12 in my permit. thats 8 yds of dirt and i can backfill after dug and move onto next hole. i figure i could do this 3 times in a day before i become efficient enought to do this 5 times. anyways the gold is all over my claim. so with 10 k i can buy all the materials needed to build a small washplant like the atv angus mckirk one. this is the issue im asking your help on. I planned on taking a harbor freight folding trailer and it folds at 2 points. the ball hitch part folds down and the 2nd section folds up as well as the 3rd section. Since you have to assemble it yourself i planned on taking one 4x4ft section and adding 2 45deg post holes to set up as the backhoes grizzly and welding 18 pieces of 1 1/2 inch steel angle giving me a 2-3 inch gap to classife the largest rocks. then the other portion of the trailer that will have wheels attached along with the front ball hitch part that i wanted to build a 5ft box like the atv and place 2in spray bars on both sides as well as top to stir up the claying red material. and then it would funnel to a 2ft or 3ft port with circular grizzly bars i would have to weld on as well. then the slucie would be 90 deg to the massive hopper box. i wish they had a in betweener like the atv and the gold hog monster hog. I will also be using monster hog matting and going to order pre fab sluice box 14 wide and 5ft long 2 of them for 10ft sluice box. I also will be using 3 100 gal rubbermaid bins to recirculate as i have not come up with a idea for a tailing pond as it is pretty darn difficult in the first place to get water out there. (maybe someone has a idea for the water?) Maybe thats why no commercial ops have been back there but the gold is there. JUst wondering if you can help me out with this issue. biggest problems is the water situation and how to efficiently run the dirt and get to my 46 yds running a day at a 1/2 gram a gold per yd material. And maybe you can point me at a better deal to get money as well. I also have a 3000 car a 2500 truck and my 1000 pop up camper as collateral in this deal we are working on. Well any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated. I know how to use the blm lr2000 very well and can tell if someone has put a location within 8 day period. So after the 60 acres are mined up it is easy to find others letting their claims go. The water issue keeps most large scale operations away. I have to run all my pay dirt at once i think otherwise intervenely running would be the water running more and more slurry stirred up. I also plan on taking a auger and hooking it up to a small motor which will fit in pvc to continue the tailing from piling up in the 100 gal containers. ANY SUGGESTIONS AND IDEAS OF HOW TO DO SOMETHING LIKE IM TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.

 

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[B H Prospector]

I really hate to burst bubbles but maybe you should ask the Lord for more money and not be kept so humble. What you are planning is going to take much more than 17k not to mention the distruction of your friendship. I have a dry claim in South Dakota. The previous owners attempted to do what you wish to try. They had over 100k invested including operating cost and equipment. Built most of their equipment. They ran one day and abandoned the operation. Could not get enough water to the claim to operate. What water they had got dirty very fast and unusable. Figure out a way to drywash. I am working on a way to dry material before it goes to my drywaher (material is very moist on my claim and needs drying). I am toying with a heated trommel idea. Have got it figured out yet but that is one option I am looking at. I truely hope you find a solution that will work for you.

Good Luck!!

BH Prospector

 

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[keepmehumblelord]

Well it's good to see some one has the dream yet and willing to take the risk , remember to never think your going to get rich . If you loose it all you have to be prepared , if you make it then you've done good . The best water solution is going to be haling it most likely in 50 gallon barrels each time you go out . And the settling pond may not be I deal but your best bet fore now .
You have probably researched them . Pump farthest away if you incorporate two swells between the pump and the tailings dropping several inches below the surface it should work good . I'm in lasVegas but would not mind coming down some weekend to check out your plans and see what you got going on . I may be of some help or may not . If you would like us ( wife and I ) let use know .

Gold mining is always a risk but much research give s a better probability. Ive done this. Im not sure of how much help you guys could be as of now but as i get up and operating i will need help eventually. The most help i need now is $. I have the option of the invester alls i have to do is put a lean on my assets car, truck, camper and good to go but he wants to much in return. I figure I could sell one of the claims to get me started but the claims are far more valuable then 7500 that i would sell one for. Its not easy getting a weaver creek claim so im in a catch 22. A reasonable return would be 10000 paid back to the invester plus 2500 in 6month period for loaning the money then a 7% indefinate return as long as i mine with profits 0-100000 and anything above that 5%. That would be a fair deal because 10k isnt that much money. Thats a car. A simple 10k car could get a small op going for 1 month. Its a risk but better make sure you have esampled the crap out of the area like i have.

 

[Justbent]

Gold mining is always a risk but much research give s a better probability. Ive done this. Im not sure of how much help you guys could be as of now but as i get up and operating i will need help eventually. The most help i need now is $. I have the option of the invester alls i have to do is put a lean on my assets car, truck, camper and good to go but he wants to much in return. I figure I could sell one of the claims to get me started but the claims are far more valuable then 7500 that i would sell one for. Its not easy getting a weaver creek claim so im in a catch 22. A reasonable return would be 10000 paid back to the invester plus 2500 in 6month period for loaning the money then a 7% indefinate return as long as i mine with profits 0-100000 and anything above that 5%. That would be a fair deal because 10k isnt that much money. Thats a car. A simple 10k car could get a small op going for 1 month. Its a risk but better make sure you have esampled the crap out of the area like i have.

It sounds to me like the investor has the deal. You mahouts barter more. Find someone that has the heavy equipment you need. Find someone who can make a *****ing wash plant. You'll save in the long run.

 

[goldenIrishman]

I have to agree with Clay on this one. Sample in detail, locate that best pay-streaks you can find THEN and ONLY THEN decide on what equipment is needed to get the gold out.

As many on this site know, I'm also in the process of locating and developing a claim in Arizona and after talking with Clay on SEVERAL occasions I know it can be done, but it has to be approached in the right way. Miners out here could learn a lot from "The Art of War" by Sun Tsu. Know your enemy as you would know yourself! This includes everything from location to dealing with govt officials, to equipment, financing, water supplies etc etc etc. I've been prospecting for years now and I'm still learning new things every single day. It sounds to me like you've got a good start on the research, but it's not as complete as it should be to insure success. I'm not a gambler by any stretch of the word and I don't have investors to back me. (..and I don't want investors!!!) Every dime that is going into this project is out of our pocket, not someone else. Needless to say it's got to be done right to insure that every dime invested by us shows a return in one way or another. To me that mean that a couple of things have to happen. First is the research, more research and did I mention even more research? Good systematic sampling of a site before you stake a claim is also part of that research. You wouldn't buy a car without knowing what type of motor it has so why stake a claim without knowing where the best gold is? Then once you know where the gold is and the details like the terrain, geology and access you can decide on the equipment needed to get the gold out.

No one here wants to see a "Gold Rush Arizona" story line. We all have a good laugh at Todd Hoffmans' exploits and I for one don't want to see you fail. We've all got a stake in your venture in a lot of ways as it will reflect on all of us with the greenies and government. Keep it clean, legal and above all else sane! Poking holes in the ground and hoping to hit a major streak is the Hoffman way of mining. DON'T BE a Todd!

I'm sure that everyone else on the forum will also wish you luck, but I for one don't trust to luck to get the job done. Knowledge is power in all things, most of all mining.

Golden Irishman

 

[adam h]

Also three 100 gal tanks may not do the job sufficiently. Possibly you may need three 500-1000 gal tanks to run 40+ yards a day. That's equivalent to 5 yards per hour for 8 hours or 200/5 gal buckets full per hour for 8 hours. You will be surprised how fast the water gets saturated with dirt, especially when running the red stuff.
CLICK HERE:1000 gal water tank

GG~

If you have access to cobble or use the oversize stones / dig as deep a hole as u can where your ground is moist and backfill with clear stone aka deainrock/cobble, but have a piece of culvert standing verticle use as a shallow well. Youll be surprised at the bolume of water that comes in.

 

[jair]

I really hate to burst bubbles but maybe you should ask the Lord for more money and not be kept so humble. What you are planning is going to take much more than 17k not to mention the distruction of your friendship. I have a dry claim in South Dakota. The previous owners attempted to do what you wish to try. They had over 100k invested including operating cost and equipment. Built most of their equipment. They ran one day and abandoned the operation. Could not get enough water to the claim to operate. What water they had got dirty very fast and unusable. Figure out a way to drywash. I am working on a way to dry material before it goes to my drywaher (material is very moist on my claim and needs drying). I am toying with a heated trommel idea. Have got it figured out yet but that is one option I am looking at. I truely hope you find a solution that will work for you. Good Luck!! BH Prospector

I am designing a drying trommel as we'll , I'll be using propane to heat and 12 volt motor to turn . It will dry and feed the other trommel this way I can have it small enough to haul in my jeep trailer with my other equipment also . I prospect for the joy and fun of it and enjoy building my equipment and being out side . Any thing I make I figure is a bonus .

 

[Clay Diggins]

I wouldn't bother with trying to make a small material dryer. The propane will cost more than any gold you can recover and the amount of time it will take to dry will kill any chance of reasonable throughput. It's been tried many times before and to put it most simply - it wont work.

Glenn worked all winter on one for his $16,000 towable drywasher. His best effort - 18 pounds of propane would dry about 4 gallons of slightly moist material in about 22 minutes.

Try drying a pound of moist dirt with your best design and then calculate the time and fuel needed to do any volume. It takes a LOT of energy to heat rock and dirt. The space needed to tumble the material to get the heat to it will be bigger than your drywasher and the weight and volume of the propane needed will require extra trips.

Drywashing is a great way to process material. Once the moisture gets above about 5% your recovery rate starts to go down fast. At 11% you are out of business.

If you have 80 pounds of material with 10% moisture content you need to vaporize 1 gallon of water. Try simply boiling a gallon of water until your pan is dry. See the problem? Dirt and rocks add mass that needs to be heated as well before the water can vaporize. Try heating 80 pounds of dry material to the boiling point of water (212 degrees F). See my point?

 

[omnicron]

You could always locate the paying area of your claim, then rent a backhoe for a day or two, maybe even a week. Dig it up and stock pile it, return the backhoe and run the stockpile by hand through your high banker. As for the water problem...if the hole you dug pay material in on flat land, line it with something to hold the water or get you a swimming pool (large one) and pump your water from it to your high banker. You will of course have to get the water first but as was stated in this thread, it sounds like you can have it delivered. From my perspective this would be a economical way to proceed....maybe a few thousand dollars out of pocket and lots of shoveling but if your material is good you should be much better off then dealing with the "friend" or should I say "fiend"

 

[Goldwasher]

wow that is a lot of money spent.......what happens if you can't pay back the investor this year?

 

[keepmehumblelord]

I really hate to burst bubbles but maybe you should ask the Lord for more money and not be kept so humble. What you are planning is going to take much more than 17k not to mention the distruction of your friendship. I have a dry claim in South Dakota. The previous owners attempted to do what you wish to try. They had over 100k invested including operating cost and equipment. Built most of their equipment. They ran one day and abandoned the operation. Could not get enough water to the claim to operate. What water they had got dirty very fast and unusable. Figure out a way to drywash. I am working on a way to dry material before it goes to my drywaher (material is very moist on my claim and needs drying). I am toying with a heated trommel idea. Have got it figured out yet but that is one option I am looking at. I truely hope you find a solution that will work for you.

Good Luck!!

BH Prospector

Hey BH great to hear from you. The heated trommel idea is great but it would have to be almost red hot in order to dry the material. But with that idea im sure you will come up with ideas and things will get put together. I know the dirt needs to be tumbled and crushed to thin it out and then almost need a way to suspend the dirt in the air so that the dirt would dry evenly all the way around. If you could make one massive dry washer with say 10 or 20 leaf blowers and one massive dry washer cloth you could put sides 5 ft high and 5 in width and have a top and with that amount of pressures it would suspend all the dirt that was classifed through a large tumbler 1/2 and smaller. That way it would suspend in the air. Something to this effect. 3000 or 6000 mph of air is alot for 10 or 20 cheap blowers. if you come up with a cheaper idea then 2000 for a large dry washer let me know. Only way ive thought is what you were thinking with the heated trommel. Maybe coal of some sort or some kind of cheap burning fuel that could keep a fire going like a gas fireplace kinda. Just a gas line that connected to propane or something that has a continous flame over the trommel and the trommel could be kept enclosed except the end so that the burner wouldnt blow out. Now you almost got me changing my game plan and if it can work then id be all about it. Everyone tells me im wasting my time with coming up with a dry washer but the water is the biggest pain in the but. If the dirt was dried completely how do you think the recovery rate would compare to wet washing? the idea is to have water hauled in and have a storage tank on site. sounds like your buddy was running a 100 plus yards a hour and that wouldnt work unless you had a pond and a settling pond or 3 10000 gallon containers and that would work. Now that the gold hog mat is out the recovery of wet washing is even higher than dry. But for people as myself starting small going for 5o yards a day is alot of material but it can be done with minimal water if done correctly. Ive ran on 4 days of nothing but silty water and it didnt affect the recovery rate. People in south america have nothing but nastly silty mucky water and then never have issues with loosing gold unless oil polution get into the water. Keep bouncing some ideas im curious to here especially if it would be efficent enough but i dont see it yet. Hauling water stinks but its something a miner has always done at some point. Drying material can cost time but if a way is made it could work on a large scale but still the amount of dirt could not be processed in the same time as wet washing plus the recovery rate would be lost. Of course with a dry place like mine preparing for the spring is the way to go so then no water would have to be hauled just store it in a 10000 gallon tank they sell and as profit is made get another 1 or 2

 

[keepmehumblelord]

It sounds to me like the investor has the deal. You mahouts barter more. Find someone that has the heavy equipment you need. Find someone who can make a *****ing wash plant. You'll save in the long run.

Alright so heres the new scope. I havent signed with the investor. I have taken a step back and have came up with a solution on how i can run for one month with a wash plant and a gold hog 12ft sluice 18in wide for 1500 roughly. Another 2000 is needed for permit. So the backhoe i am working on having someone lease it to me for a certain percent in which one guy wants me to call him back tomorow. But anyways I can get up and going for under 5k and thats running for 1 month. Some may say ya right no way not for that cheap. Well if you have spent 6 years traveling in search for the gold and then multiple 1000's of hours talking to others and drawing and sketching how to build and do it for cheap and look at how others have done it it can be done for a much lesser price then most would think.

 

[keepmehumblelord]

If you have access to cobble or use the oversize stones / dig as deep a hole as u can where your ground is moist and backfill with clear stone aka deainrock/cobble, but have a piece of culvert standing verticle use as a shallow well. Youll be surprised at the bolume of water that comes in.

Ok please explain further you have my attention. What if i can only dig 6 or 12ft in depth?

 

[keepmehumblelord]

I wouldn't bother with trying to make a small material dryer. The propane will cost more than any gold you can recover and the amount of time it will take to dry will kill any chance of reasonable throughput. It's been tried many times before and to put it most simply - it wont work.

Glenn worked all winter on one for his $16,000 towable drywasher. His best effort - 18 pounds of propane would dry about 4 gallons of slightly moist material in about 22 minutes.

Try drying a pound of moist dirt with your best design and then calculate the time and fuel needed to do any volume. It takes a LOT of energy to heat rock and dirt. The space needed to tumble the material to get the heat to it will be bigger than your drywasher and the weight and volume of the propane needed will require extra trips.

Drywashing is a great way to process material. Once the moisture gets above about 5% your recovery rate starts to go down fast. At 11% you are out of business.

If you have 80 pounds of material with 10% moisture content you need to vaporize 1 gallon of water. Try simply boiling a gallon of water until your pan is dry. See the problem? Dirt and rocks add mass that needs to be heated as well before the water can vaporize. Try heating 80 pounds of dry material to the boiling point of water (212 degrees F). See my point?

Forget the DRYWASHER AND TRYING TO GET ONE TO DRY THE MATERIAL PEOPLE. tHIS IS A GREAT POINT MADE.

 

[keepmehumblelord]

wow that is a lot of money spent.......what happens if you can't pay back the investor this year?

Ok so the investor is out of the equation. Most i will have to borrow is around $3000 and i have a friend that will loan me the money for a small return. Now to break it off to the invester. Gonna be straight with him and let him know if he wants to come work on the field with me then ill give what hes asking haha. Thanks for evereyones inputs.

 

[kazcoro]

Good deal. Start smaller, invest. Here is an idea for drying your material. Pour some concrete. Spread your material out on it. The concrete would leach moisture, and give you a flat area to work so you wouldn't lose any of your dirt? Black tarps are good for the hobbyist, but you will need a durable surface. I admit, it's now much of an idea, but maybe it will loosen a really good idea in your noggin?

 

[Goodyguy]

Sun and wind are most efficient energy sources when it comes to drying dirt and are free.
Now all you have to do is figure a way to combine them into a low tech high volume drying machine.

Make it a school project/contest. Winner of the best most cost effective design gets an ounce of gold!
Since it's solar and wind related you might even be able to get a government grant.

You could also use solar energy to make your own wind by using it to power a fan.

I can picture an old satellite dish or two covered in tinfoil or mirrors and focused at a pile of damp dirt.
You could also focus it onto your trommel drum to super heat the steel.

A fresnel lens from a discarded big screen tv is what I use to super heat rocks to break them open it also comes in handy for starting a camp fire. Get a few of them and mount them to focus on whatever you want to heat up. Collect them from old big screen tv's that are curbed for garbage pick up theres a nice parabolic mirror inside them as well. (careful dont get shocked)

* Also I like the concrete drying pad Idea, could you make one from adobe?


GG~

 

[keepmehumblelord]

Good deal. Start smaller, invest. Here is an idea for drying your material. Pour some concrete. Spread your material out on it. The concrete would leach moisture, and give you a flat area to work so you wouldn't lose any of your dirt? Black tarps are good for the hobbyist, but you will need a durable surface. I admit, it's now much of an idea, but maybe it will loosen a really good idea in your noggin?

Excellent idea on the concrete. Concrete loves to suck out moisture on anything.

Taking KAZCORO AND GOODYGUYS IDEA AND PUTTING EM TOGETHER WOULD CREATE SOMETHING AWSOME. I THINK A COUPLE OF PARABOLIC MIRRORS POINTED AT 4 CORNERS OF A CONCRETE PAD OF 20X20 WOULD PUT OUT A BUNCH OF HEAT TO HAVE 10 YDS OF DIRT DRY ENOUGH TO DRYWASH THE FOLLOWING DAY AS LONG AS THE SUN IS OUT. MASSIVE HEAT IS NEED TO DRY DIRT OUT AND THE SUN MAGNIFIED WITH SOMETHING LIKE CONCRETE THAT ABSORBS THE MOISTURE MAY BE THE WAY TO GO. keep the great idea coming!

 

[kazcoro]

The one thing you don't want to do is to cover your dirt with a non permeable surface like a tarp. That will casue the moisture to condense on the underside and fall back onto the material. That is the method I use to find stubborn roof leaks on some types of roofs. You let the black plastic sit on the surface for ten minutes, and there is water on the underside of the plastic.