keene p-180 sap pump?

[timberjack]

I have a keene p-180 powered by a honda 5.5,,,,,,i want to pump maple sap (2% or so sugar content) {about 1000 gal/a day)about 60 vertical feet over a 200 foot distance. I was planning on using 2-one inch lines out of the pump to the tank on the top of the hill
Questions-are 2 one inch lines enough,,,,,i dont want to spend the $ for 2 inch and i dont want that much sap running back down the line to the bottom tank

......how much pressure will i be putting on the lines?

......how many gpm can i expect out of the lines?

Thanks, parker

 

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[fowledup]

Sacrilege, pure sacrilege!

 

[Jason in Enid]

I have a keene p-180 powered by a honda 5.5,,,,,,i want to pump maple sap (2% or so sugar content) {about 1000 gal/a day)about 60 vertical feet over a 200 foot distance. I was planning on using 2-one inch lines out of the pump to the tank on the top of the hill
Questions-are 2 one inch lines enough,,,,,i dont want to spend the $ for 2 inch and i dont want that much sap running back down the line to the bottom tank

......how much pressure will i be putting on the lines?

......how many gpm can i expect out of the lines?

Thanks, parker

first off, I think you're insane. That being said, I don't think anybody can answer your questions. Those pumps were made to pump water and I seriously doubt they will work to pump tree sap. when dealing with water, that pump will push 300 gal a minute at about 120psi.

If you attempt this I think you will burn out both the pump and motor.

 

[G1sammons]

How funny can this get .. You must have a scrip for some of that medical stuff !

 

[timberjack]

I should probably have said the sap is allready out of the tree in in a 1200 gallon tank,,we use 2 inch pacer pumps to load the tanks on our trucks,,but they wont pump straight up.too high....i used to have access to the lot below so my vacuum pump (surge sp-22 powerd by a 5.5 honda) was down there. I lost that access and now the vacuum pump and releaser will be out in the woods at the toe of the slope, i have to pump the sap back up the hill to another tank where it will run out 2 one inch lines graded at 2% over 1800 feet to the road and my truck..
SO that being said,,sap handles just like water early in the season.....i know it takes 4 one inch lines to equal one one inch line volume wise...BUT...my jet log has one one inch nipple but its short.........the pump will make 300 gpm OR 200 feet of head BUT not both, right?
I have herd of people useing a deep well pump to do this but no electricity out there and i dont want to spend the money on a generator/pump when i allready have the p-180
SO if i were attempting to pump water 60 feet up thru 2 one inch lines what would my gpm-psi-be? Thanks,,,,,ill send syrup to the person with the right ans. We make 1k + gallons a year......

 

[63bkpkr]

Timberjack,
The viscosity of water is 1.0, I suspect the viscosity of raw maple tree sap is a bit higher hence the sap is thicker to pump and will create more drag throughout the system on the Inside Diameter of anything it flows through. Then there is the horizontal distance to travel as well as the vertical lift that must be accomplished with the higher viscosity maple sap. Are there any particles in the sap as they will change the flow characteristics of the viscous fluid and will likely hang up on angles, valves and like plaque in our arteries on the walls of the hose slowing everything down, pressure losses. Also, the water pump is built to pump water which cools the pump, it may be that the viscosity of the sap will create a heat build up at the pump causing the sap to crystallize and possibly cook and congeal around the impeller - a pure GUESS here but check out the heat build up with the pump mfg. Your need, equipment at hand and idea may very well work but there are a few things to check out first.

I would suggest you contact the manufacturer of your pump and run this question by them once you know the viscosity of the raw sap. Possibly AZviper or Good Guy or one of the other Home Built Project folks can help on this so PM them.

Interesting problem, kinda like pumping mud out of a river bottom from a prospecting site.

Best of luck with your Quest!...................63bkpkr

 

[Jimmydolittle]

First off, if you are planning on selling your syrup, and I suspect you are, you'll need stainless steel pump, and lines to comply with Department of Health. It takes roughly 40 gallon of sap to make a gallon of syrup, why not boil it closer to your source?

 

[russau]

as stated this wont work! to thick of material. but it may work if the syrup is deluted and heated prior to entering the pump!and still theres going tobe a lot of syrup left in the pump/lines when done.

 

[timberjack]

Folks,,im pumping sap which is pretty much water,,no noticable diffrance,,just tastes a little sweet,thanks for the sugaring tips,,i have those bases covered,,been doing it for a while now,,,,,,,if you want go to youtube and wacth a video called ''mighty marvin'' you can see the sap (pretty much like water) flowing into the tank above my evaporator..might clarify what sap looks like,,,,,,,,so,,would the pump lift water 60 feet straight up? How much pressure would it build in 2 one inch lnes and what would the gpm be? Thanks

 

[G1sammons]

Folks,,im pumping sap which is pretty much water,,no noticable diffrance,,just tastes a little sweet,thanks for the sugaring tips,,i have those bases covered,,been doing it for a while now,,,,,,,if you want go to youtube and wacth a video called ''mighty marvin'' you can see the sap (pretty much like water) flowing into the tank above my evaporator..might clarify what sap looks like,,,,,,,,so,,would the pump lift water 60 feet straight up? How much pressure would it build in 2 one inch lnes and what would the gpm be? Thanks

thatump will make 180' of head presure meaning it will push water up 180 ft !
Now you may need to shim the impeller to tighten the clearance between the impeller and the housing .!
Let us know how it works ! Think we all had the idea it was thick like syrup !
Have to ask why not use a standard well pump as they make much better pressure and are food grade ?

 

[MadJack_ME]

PUMP IT GUY! No problem. People have no idea what they are reading.
Run a 1 1/2" black water pipe (160PSI), keep throttle down at first and someone holding the other end.

I do it every year... It's sap, not syrup!

Oh, and food prep can and often is done through aluminum prior to processing!

 

[timberjack]

G1-i dont want to have to drag a generator 1800' into the woods or buy a well pump,,,already have the p-180 hooked to a honda,,thanks mad jack,, still wondering if the 2 one inch lines (100psi) are going to work (enough flow out of the pump)? And how much psi in lines to overcome lift...thinking about welding up a manifold between pump and lines,,,i have a manifold made out of schedual 40 but dont think it will take the pressure

 

[Gold Maven]

One thousand gallons of syrup/ year, that's awesome.

My Dad and I used to boil, 20-30 gal was a good year for us. We were mostly gravity fed and collected.

I bet the 2 one inch lines will work, not a lot of volume there, but I'm guessin' you already have the pipe.

How about some pics of you evaporator? Had a lot of good times boilin' with Dad. GL.

 

[MadJack_ME]

***i want to pump maple sap (2% or so sugar content)***

Does ANYONE see the word SYRUP in the above sentence?


Timberjack, all I can say on the 2- one inch lines is try it. I'm sure if your fittings & connections are tight you'll be fine. This week here in south-central Maine we should start tapping trees. 35* here yesterday!

 

[Hoser John]

No problem TJ-THAT IS THE BEST SYRUP I EVER ATE MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM GOOD. MadJack mucho bs GPAA forum ya still director or dumped thatn' too??New season a Ice Cold Gold and 0 you Just might shine it on.Both of ya Js take care-John

 

[MadJack_ME]

Nah John, Just the obama-loving-admin being his own queer self! Still with gpaa for now, waiting to hear back from Brad Jones. I may toss in the towel though.

Yep, ICG season II starts March 6 @ 10PM, animal planet. Wonder if they'll look for rubies in copper again! LOL
Hey, they kept the excavator expert, wonder if they'll use his skills.... not likely! LMFAO