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Thread: keene p-180 sap pump?

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  1. #1

    Sep 2013
    New Hampshire
    203
    212 times
    Prospecting

    keene p-180 sap pump?

    I have a keene p-180 powered by a honda 5.5,,,,,,i want to pump maple sap (2% or so sugar content) {about 1000 gal/a day)about 60 vertical feet over a 200 foot distance. I was planning on using 2-one inch lines out of the pump to the tank on the top of the hill
    Questions-are 2 one inch lines enough,,,,,i dont want to spend the $ for 2 inch and i dont want that much sap running back down the line to the bottom tank

    ......how much pressure will i be putting on the lines?

    ......how many gpm can i expect out of the lines?

    Thanks, parker

  2. #2
    us
    fowledup

    Jul 2013
    Northern California
    Whites GMT V/SAT
    2,757
    5166 times
    Prospecting
    Sacrilege, pure sacrilege!
    Folks may not remember the words of what you said but they dang sure will remember how you made them feel!

  3. #3
    us
    Oct 2009
    8,522
    7313 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by timberjack View Post
    I have a keene p-180 powered by a honda 5.5,,,,,,i want to pump maple sap (2% or so sugar content) {about 1000 gal/a day)about 60 vertical feet over a 200 foot distance. I was planning on using 2-one inch lines out of the pump to the tank on the top of the hill
    Questions-are 2 one inch lines enough,,,,,i dont want to spend the $ for 2 inch and i dont want that much sap running back down the line to the bottom tank

    ......how much pressure will i be putting on the lines?

    ......how many gpm can i expect out of the lines?

    Thanks, parker
    first off, I think you're insane. That being said, I don't think anybody can answer your questions. Those pumps were made to pump water and I seriously doubt they will work to pump tree sap. when dealing with water, that pump will push 300 gal a minute at about 120psi.

    If you attempt this I think you will burn out both the pump and motor.

  4. #4

    Dec 2012
    Murfreesboro tn
    1,030
    253 times
    Prospecting
    How funny can this get .. You must have a scrip for some of that medical stuff !
    It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who your not!

  5. #5

    Sep 2013
    New Hampshire
    203
    212 times
    Prospecting
    I should probably have said the sap is allready out of the tree in in a 1200 gallon tank,,we use 2 inch pacer pumps to load the tanks on our trucks,,but they wont pump straight up.too high....i used to have access to the lot below so my vacuum pump (surge sp-22 powerd by a 5.5 honda) was down there. I lost that access and now the vacuum pump and releaser will be out in the woods at the toe of the slope, i have to pump the sap back up the hill to another tank where it will run out 2 one inch lines graded at 2% over 1800 feet to the road and my truck..
    SO that being said,,sap handles just like water early in the season.....i know it takes 4 one inch lines to equal one one inch line volume wise...BUT...my jet log has one one inch nipple but its short.........the pump will make 300 gpm OR 200 feet of head BUT not both, right?
    I have herd of people useing a deep well pump to do this but no electricity out there and i dont want to spend the money on a generator/pump when i allready have the p-180
    SO if i were attempting to pump water 60 feet up thru 2 one inch lines what would my gpm-psi-be? Thanks,,,,,ill send syrup to the person with the right ans. We make 1k + gallons a year......
    Last edited by timberjack; Feb 14, 2014 at 05:02 AM.

  6. #6
    us
    Northern California

    Aug 2007
    Southern California
    XLT, GMT, 6000D Coinmaster
    3,986
    4452 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Timberjack,
    The viscosity of water is 1.0, I suspect the viscosity of raw maple tree sap is a bit higher hence the sap is thicker to pump and will create more drag throughout the system on the Inside Diameter of anything it flows through. Then there is the horizontal distance to travel as well as the vertical lift that must be accomplished with the higher viscosity maple sap. Are there any particles in the sap as they will change the flow characteristics of the viscous fluid and will likely hang up on angles, valves and like plaque in our arteries on the walls of the hose slowing everything down, pressure losses. Also, the water pump is built to pump water which cools the pump, it may be that the viscosity of the sap will create a heat build up at the pump causing the sap to crystallize and possibly cook and congeal around the impeller - a pure GUESS here but check out the heat build up with the pump mfg. Your need, equipment at hand and idea may very well work but there are a few things to check out first.

    I would suggest you contact the manufacturer of your pump and run this question by them once you know the viscosity of the raw sap. Possibly AZviper or Good Guy or one of the other Home Built Project folks can help on this so PM them.

    Interesting problem, kinda like pumping mud out of a river bottom from a prospecting site.

    Best of luck with your Quest!...................63bkpkr
    Last edited by 63bkpkr; Feb 14, 2014 at 06:16 AM.
    russau likes this.
    Out searching w/GMT & friend under my arm

  7. #7
    Charter Member
    us
    Jim Bowers

    Mar 2013
    Hendricksville Indiana
    447
    475 times
    Prospecting
    First off, if you are planning on selling your syrup, and I suspect you are, you'll need stainless steel pump, and lines to comply with Department of Health. It takes roughly 40 gallon of sap to make a gallon of syrup, why not boil it closer to your source?
    russau and 63bkpkr like this.

  8. #8

    May 2005
    St. Louis, missouri
    5,802
    4393 times
    as stated this wont work! to thick of material. but it may work if the syrup is deluted and heated prior to entering the pump!and still theres going tobe a lot of syrup left in the pump/lines when done.

  9. #9

    Sep 2013
    New Hampshire
    203
    212 times
    Prospecting
    Folks,,im pumping sap which is pretty much water,,no noticable diffrance,,just tastes a little sweet,thanks for the sugaring tips,,i have those bases covered,,been doing it for a while now,,,,,,,if you want go to youtube and wacth a video called ''mighty marvin'' you can see the sap (pretty much like water) flowing into the tank above my evaporator..might clarify what sap looks like,,,,,,,,so,,would the pump lift water 60 feet straight up? How much pressure would it build in 2 one inch lnes and what would the gpm be? Thanks

  10. #10

    Dec 2012
    Murfreesboro tn
    1,030
    253 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by timberjack View Post
    Folks,,im pumping sap which is pretty much water,,no noticable diffrance,,just tastes a little sweet,thanks for the sugaring tips,,i have those bases covered,,been doing it for a while now,,,,,,,if you want go to youtube and wacth a video called ''mighty marvin'' you can see the sap (pretty much like water) flowing into the tank above my evaporator..might clarify what sap looks like,,,,,,,,so,,would the pump lift water 60 feet straight up? How much pressure would it build in 2 one inch lnes and what would the gpm be? Thanks
    thatump will make 180' of head presure meaning it will push water up 180 ft !
    Now you may need to shim the impeller to tighten the clearance between the impeller and the housing .!
    Let us know how it works ! Think we all had the idea it was thick like syrup !
    Have to ask why not use a standard well pump as they make much better pressure and are food grade ?
    It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who your not!

  11. #11
    Master Maine Guide-Miner-A$$h*le extrordinairre

    Apr 2013
    Maine, mostly
    Original Gold Bug, Dahlke Dredges, LeTrap Sluice for clean-up
    138
    228 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    PUMP IT GUY! No problem. People have no idea what they are reading.
    Run a 1 1/2" black water pipe (160PSI), keep throttle down at first and someone holding the other end.

    I do it every year... It's sap, not syrup!

    Oh, and food prep can and often is done through aluminum prior to processing!

  12. #12

    Sep 2013
    New Hampshire
    203
    212 times
    Prospecting
    G1-i dont want to have to drag a generator 1800' into the woods or buy a well pump,,,already have the p-180 hooked to a honda,,thanks mad jack,, still wondering if the 2 one inch lines (100psi) are going to work (enough flow out of the pump)? And how much psi in lines to overcome lift...thinking about welding up a manifold between pump and lines,,,i have a manifold made out of schedual 40 but dont think it will take the pressure
    Hoser John likes this.

  13. #13

    Jul 2012
    Holmes County Ohio
    Tesoro Lobo
    2,045
    1612 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    One thousand gallons of syrup/ year, that's awesome.

    My Dad and I used to boil, 20-30 gal was a good year for us. We were mostly gravity fed and collected.

    I bet the 2 one inch lines will work, not a lot of volume there, but I'm guessin' you already have the pipe.

    How about some pics of you evaporator? Had a lot of good times boilin' with Dad. GL.
    Two rules in life: Don't sweat the small stuff.

    It's all small stuff.

  14. #14
    Master Maine Guide-Miner-A$$h*le extrordinairre

    Apr 2013
    Maine, mostly
    Original Gold Bug, Dahlke Dredges, LeTrap Sluice for clean-up
    138
    228 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    ***i want to pump maple sap (2% or so sugar content)***

    Does ANYONE see the word SYRUP in the above sentence?


    Timberjack, all I can say on the 2- one inch lines is try it. I'm sure if your fittings & connections are tight you'll be fine. This week here in south-central Maine we should start tapping trees. 35* here yesterday!
    Hoser John likes this.

  15. #15
    us
    Mar 2003
    Redding,Calif.
    5,837
    6643 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    No problem TJ-THAT IS THE BEST SYRUP I EVER ATE MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM GOOD. MadJack mucho bs GPAA forum ya still director or dumped thatn' too??New season a Ice Cold Gold and 0 you Just might shine it on.Both of ya Js take care-John

 

 
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