folks wake up, Fish not gold should be sued for misleading info

[2cmorau]

take a bit of time this week and write your reps, crunch time is soon to be here
my HO if everyone here took the time to write LATIMES, it may have a good outcome
maybe barking up the wrong tree


Fish Not Gold
some of what is being said
Myth: People opposed to suction dredge mining have an agenda.
Truth: Miners frequently complain that anybody opposed to them is against 'freedom' and 'liberty'. In fact, miners in Washington state have greater freedom than do fishermen, who in many streams are banned from fishing due to concern over ESA-listed species and habitat degradation. If a stream is too sensitive to allow fishing, then it's too sensitive to allow mining, even during so-called 'work windows'. The millions of taxpayer dollars that have been spent to restore fisheries are slowly being wasted through the cumulative negative impact of unrestricted mining..
Myth: Miners have a 'right' to mine because of the General Mining Act of 1872.
Truth: Mining is not a right, it's a privilege and it's one that's being systematically abused. The General Mining Act of 1872 was signed by president Ulysses S. Grant as a means to encourage development in the sparsely-settled west. Times have changed in the nearly century and a half since then as has our understanding of the adverse impacts of mining. The courts have determined that the 1872 Mining Act is not absolute and that it's provisions can be subordinated by environmental laws and regulations. For example, Washington state has opted to administer the Clean Water Act. Through that authority, it can and shall regulate hobby mining, modifying the provisions of the 1872 Mining Act with its own rules and regulations.

 

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[Fullpan]

Lets not get detracted from the main issue here. This Bob is not discussing the merits or facts. He is a well-educated propagandist. He probably was trained
at "green univ." (how to manipulate meetings, media, and group discussions). He uses a standard formula to tell plausible lies, discredit his opposition, and
uses emotional techniques(witness the bambi video), to get the majority to act on his agenda.

Field School For Environmental Organizing | Green Corps

 

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[mxer47]

Anyone attending meetings should be prepared to rebut photos, videos, and articles. Most will be hand picked for "worse case examples". Questions about this "evidence" should include a time and place of photos. Using a photo of a dredge with a photoshopped background of an old abandoned strip mine is just the tactic they would use. This type of evidence should be questioned and explained thoughtfully. Then evidence should be put forward to substantiate our claims. Anyone have any videos of their dredging opps from before the moratorium? Go back and document what it looks like now. Bring led sinkers and even a vial of recovered mercury but be prepared to explain the difference as was pointed out in the original link. If your going to bring evidence be an expert on it.

 

[jog]

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Suction Dredging

One of my other priorities this session was banning suction dredging in Washington’s critical habitat areas. This mining technique uses gas-powered machines that vacuum up sediment, allowing miners to separate the gold and metals from the remaining gravel. Unfortunately, wild salmon and steelhead spawning grounds are also caught by the vacuum. I highly encourage you to read an article written by a 36th district constituent Dr. Kim McDonald, Cascadia Wild Lands,explaining the harmful process of suction dredging on our fish and streams. Oregon and California have placed a moratorium on suction dredging as they examine the harm being done to wild salmon and steelhead runs. Idaho has banned suction dredging in rivers and streams where wild fish runs are at risk. We’re the one remaining state in the Pacific Northwest’s lower 48 states that allows suction dredging and we do not monitor compliance with the minimal regulations on the books. We have received dozens of e-mails from people throughout Washington who support this bill. Even though it did not gain a hearing in its House committee, I will be carefully working this issue during interim in preparation for next session.

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​

Thank you for taking the time to read this legislative update! I’ve been hearing from many of you about a wide variety of issues, and I greatly appreciate your advocacy. Please don’t hesitate to call my office at (360) 786-7860 or e-mail me at [email protected] if something’s on your mind. Your voice in Olympia, Gael Kim M. propaganda site below for Washington State legislature to stop placer mining. http://www.cascwild.org/the-suction-dredging-war-starts-in-washington-gentlemen-do-not-start-your-engines/

 

[2cmorau]

Hey Jog
i see that Bob deleted my post, or i just can't find it, i asked him why the Sierra fund was looking for tax payer funding to operate a dredge on the combie

 

[jog]

He probably didn't want to go there so it's easy for him to just hit delete. Might try again & see what happens.

 

[2cmorau]

I am sure i will get some flak for this

 

[mendoAu]

well golly geee jeff, that was a very insightful statement, what have you done lately for the miners in your area, just because Pods has good Ganja and has highjack this post, maybe throw in a helpful comment to get it back on track

Here's a link that is right on track:


Fish Not Gold. If you fish in Washington, this affects you. | Page 5 | Washington Fly Fishing

Speaking on hi-jacking I am reluctant to highjack a flyfishing site with this subject, however since FishNotGold started this linked/thread it has opened the door so to speak.

 

[gold nuggets]

The fishermen across the country better wake up and smell the coffee because the environutz are starting to come after them now by trolling the different sites and causing discontent with articles/posts like this one from Fish Not Gold. Won't be long and the State Legislature, or the DEQ, or the DSL, or the ODFW and who knows who-else will be hog-tying the fishermen with more rules, new regulations and higher fees. Then, the fishermen will be wanting to join the miners and loggers for help.......I can see it now......on top of all the fees, a $150 surcharge to be garnered from the fishermen to fish so the agency can do some impact studies to see if they need a moratorium on fishing. Makes my head hurt.........

 

[benny]

Hello mendAu,
I think for most folk on that site, you're fighting a loosing battle. They have no interest in truth or evidence. Others, probably not posting might be influenced though. You might bring up the point that breaking up the cobbled bottom would be akin to plowing a field. A farmer flinging seed onto an unplowed field isn't going to get much of a crop yield. Same would be true for salmon.

One other thing. Let the fishers know that if their only interest is fishing, and they get run off a claim at gun point, they should probably contact the sheriffs dept. Sounds like the claim holder needs some education, too.

 

[delnorter]

Good job on the posting the other site MendAu. In what area of SW Oregon are located?

Mike

 

[fowledup]

This boils my blood to the core, and I've fished my entire life. Self indulgent, uneducated HYPOCRISY, absolute ignorance, they clearly represent the 10% of every user group that F's it up for the rest. In some ways I pity them as they are no different then us, they just aren't as far along in the process as we are. They are still idealist's who believe if they work with the enviro's, government, and others their passions will prevail and be saved.
I believe what the author was really trying to convey was "fishing not mining"'. Real easy to say its all about the fish when your still allowed to pursue them, isn't it. Take away his right or privelage to do so and lets here what tune he's singing.
I'm a miner, and a fisherman (sport and former commercial), among other things, in short I'm a realist who exploit s for personnal joy and/ or profit the planets resources in a responsible, and ethical manner. I will not sugar coat the causes and effects of my deeds. So I ask; What does more harm or good to the environment or mankind, small scale mining or recreational sportfishing?
- The 10% elitist fisherman club say small scale is "recreational" or a "hobby" but portrait us as, and compare our efforts to historical ground ravaging industrial operations. Flipside is how quick they are to distinguish and distance themselves from the destructive resource depleting commercial fishing enterprises.
- What is the point of sportfishing, what purpose does it serve? If we are truly honest- it doesn't, other then providing entertainment and selfserving gratification. One might argue that it has created an entire industry providing limitless opportunities for jobs and economic prosperity. True, completely based on entertainment. How has it enhanced or furthered us as a people- it hasn't the world if we are honest would be no better a place with or without it. We used to fish for sustenance. That however is now politically incorrect, and very unfashionable, you must release the stressed and played out creature to, if possible survive another day for future anglers to harass, and torture.
- Another hypocrisy- those wishing to save the gravels and streambeds from us horrible miners have no problem with polluting the same waterways with genetically modified labratory "created" robofish. They induce "non-native" (what does that even mean anymore?) hatchery fish, and protect them with nothing less then the purist values and intent.
- Trash, subsequent pollution, and other harmful aspects. Both sides share members of gheir communities that are simply pigs. However ask yourself whether your a fisherman or a miner, what kind of trash do you see when out in the field? Not counting food items because as I said we both share POS's that litter. Lets focus onwhat items the respective user groups use that result in waste? Miners don't typically use things that envolve packaging or man made waste any different then fishermen. Fisherman howevers world revolves around little bits and pieces of jars, containers, and plastic packages. Take a walk down any stream where fish are found, it will speak for itself. Human waste was mentioned by one of thd posters. In my experience miners bring tools for digging, fisherman don't, anyone with a grain of common sense oughta figure out where I'm going with that. What do miners use or leave behind that is a harmful by product of their activity? Answer- nothing the benefit of their activity they remove them. Fisherman are the largest producer of one of the harmful by products- lead. Sadly, and fortunately as a goldminer I've recovered far more lead then gold. Mercury you argue? Miners intruduced it to the rivers! Not entirely true as it occurs naturally as well. My point is show me one case of Mercury poisoning from consuming fish. I can show several instances of treatment for infections and puncture wounds as a result of hooks lodged in feet, fingers, and other body parts. I can also site many instances of wildlife death due to monofilament being left in the stream or waterway.
I gotta stop blood pressure reaching critical, but could go on and on. My point is we all use our environment. We all can have a negative consequence if we are not responsible, ethical and police ourselves. My biggest point don't be a hypocrite, be a realist and take responsibility for your actions. Again I love to fish and am not beating up on fishing, I am taking to task the 10% that believe they are holier than thou and share no respect for the rest of us.

 

[triple d]

What rights will they take away next. Hunting, fishing, atvs they won"t stop until. We have no rights to do anything.The more power they are given. The more they will take.These groups fighting with them. Will find themselves fighting to save there rights. From those enviro. groups.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Pods and others involved, let's separate the politics not directly related to topic from the thread, your violating our rules on politics.....

 

[fowledup]

It was brought to my attention that as responsible miners and concerned citizens, we should propose and support a total moratorium on fishing in any waterway or watershed containing Mercury or Lead. We could call ourselves The Coalition of Concerned Miners and Citizens working to prevent the Mercury and Lead Poisoning Epidemic. We can hire a Lawyers and, scientists, maybe we could even get Brad Pitt as our happy, concerned spokesperson, that would be cool remember the movie "A River Runs Through It". Fear not this will only be a temporary injuction on sportfishing until such time as the Sierra Fund has done full remediation/mitigation of all rivers, streams, lakes, reservoirs and wetlands. At the breakneck speed they're fixing Lake Combie the entire western states watersheds should be free and clear of Merc in on or about the year 2574! Tight lines guys!

 

[Oakview2]

I'm in

 

[fowledup]

Knew we could count on ya Ron! Had another thought, since we would be part of the greenteam, i'm thinking we could propose the use of suction technology to remediate the lead. Unlike Mercury we will be able to provide plenty of cases with actual harm to people and animals, bet they'd give us a big ol'tax payer funded grant. We should probably stick to the lead exclusively tho cuz we wouldn't want to ruffle any of the mercury remediators feathers. Oh and maybe with our new green technology we can sell off the gold we might get to offset our administrative and consultant costs. Who else is with me on this? This could be a real game changer- come on guys hard hats in! Remember its all about the fish!


If this weren't already a reallity and happening to us, I'd think it was the most preposterous, ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.

 

[winners58]

Wonder if this could be applied to fish they claim as "Evolutionarily Significant Unit" or subspecies only found in that stream or state.

Court Finds Endangered Species Act Cannot Regulate Species on Private Lands Within a Single State
link; http://westernminingalliance.org/20...ecies-on-private-lands-within-a-single-state/
Case finding; http://www.bdlaw.com/assets/htmldocuments/PETPO v. FWS.pdf
.

 

[Oakview2]

Don't give up on mercury remediation, big big bucks in the current CA water bond for it, we need to caopitalize on it.

 

[winners58]

i'm thinking we could propose the use of suction technology to remediate the lead.

Miners Cleaning Streams...
https://www.facebook.com/streamsavers

 

[Bonaro]

Heads up everyone...The Fish not Gold site, Washington fly fishing site, Western Steelhead coalition and several other are all bait sites. I have been down this trial ahead of you and I have so insight.
Dont post there, they are professional antagonists and they are only there to pick a fight. You can say nothing to them that will change their minds. They will incite a heated argument then threaten libel lawsuits. They will require you to register before you can post then use your registration info to do background searches on you looking for dirt.
I know these things from direct personal experience and I strongly advise you dont play their game.