A way to stop opposition to dredging (Triple-S mining).

[Lanny in AB]

I believe we need to change the term "Dredging" to Triple-S mining (Surface Suction Sluice Mining) to get ourselves removed from the horribly negative stereotypes of dredging that cropped up in the late 1800's and early 1900's:

The term dredging should be deleted from every reference to the activity and replaced by surface suction sluicing (SSS mining/Triple-S mining). The name dredge should be removed by every manufacturer on their equipment lists as well. There's just too much baggage attached to the word "dredge" and a lot of it is left over from the late 1800's and early 1900's and the negative stereotypes were rightfully earned. Those monster bucketline dredges did leave entire wastelands behind them, and those piles of waste are nothing but eye candy for the enviro-nazi press.

The surface suction mining we do today only briefly alters the stream, and the fall or spring storms quickly remove any signs of our passing. What's left is clean, highly oxygenated, silt free gravel that's prime for spawning. I've watched the fish methodically choose those surface suction sluice gravels (SSS mined gravels/Triple-S gravels) over the natural ones over and over again. The fish know something about gravel that's best for spawning, and that's why they prefer it.

By the way, Triple-S mining (surface suction sluice mining) should not occur when any spawning seasons are on, in order to kill the fishing lobby's objections. So, there goes any argument by greenies or enviro-nazi's about that element as well. (No more trampling on eggs [redds] as there would be specific prohibitions from Triple-S mining during spawning seasons.) This would only be strengthened by all Triple-S miners agreeing to never mine the banks or the riparian zone (channel banks or bars with trees or plants growing on them).

Perhaps California and other states currently under siege need to organize any renewal of Triple-S mining through regulations to clearly protect spawning seasons and riparian zones in order to kill the hate lobby organized around former objections.

All the best,

Lanny

P.S. This is only an idea put out there to get kicked around a bit as a method for discussion to see if we can't get rid of some of the negative stereotypes associated with surface suction sluicing for gold. Moreover, any time any opposition uses the word "dredge" in their arguments, we can state that the activity has been accurately and deliberately renamed as surface suction sluicing so as to avoid any future confusion with the bucketline dredges of the past.

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[Hefty1]

It never hurts to give consideration to trying to remedy the anti dredging issue...and changing the name has worked on many consumer products. But I believe it takes much more. And the "much more" requires a lot of work. The "greenies" are good at doing the work....as it seems they have a lot of time on their hands to do so.

I have suggested my "non-profit" idea to many currently trying to stop the anti dredging legislation we see here in the United States. To date such a concept has not been taken up. A number of people need to be a part of such a concept. I call them movers and shakers. A skilled attorney is needed. A skilled film industry person(s) are needed. A great effective public speaker/communicator is needed. A accredited science person is needed. Today one would want a great web page orchestrator as well. Then of course you need people who can do LOTS of other specific tasks as well. You need commitment by those signing on....as it takes lots of work. Then of course having a geographic centralized corps group is beneficial....so that agenda meetings can be orchestrated.


Great idea Bejay.....But....most of those people needed for this concept would be office people.

And the "much more" requires a lot of work. The "greenies" are good at doing the work....as it seems they have a lot of time on their hands to do so.

The "greenies" were born and raised to do this kind of work...

I myself and I am sure most of all the miners dont want anything to do with office work.

 

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[Bejay]

Well speaking from experience it did not require a lot of office work. Granted you have to find someone willing to be the Secretary of the non-profit. And a free gratis attorney has the ability to do a lot of office stuff (not field work), and the movie industry people love doing their thing (documentaries). And a reral computer geek would be a must! For me the verbal presentations and verbal narrations were my game.

We see a lot of miners doing their video presentations and youtube stuff so that part of the game is easy.....as many of us miners are willing to do "show and tell".

There is a vast variety of tasks required and having a diverse group of people is required. But in my past experience many of my board of directors had an iron in the fire. Do you suppose there might be an attorney who loves to dredge? Or a film crew willing to do some free work on a documentary? I think Tom Massie has one. A coalition of like minded individuals is required and the tasks are distinctly varied. Not just office work.

But I had to be willing to accept invitations to be on TV, Radio and Newspaper interviews....as well as college presentations and civic groups as well. Most importantly the gov agency (in this case the USFS and Ore dept of Fish and Wildlife) always wanted me sitting at the table when the "decision making"/ "policy adaption process" was occurring. Heck I was even nominated for 1st Citizen of the year in my community for my activism. Rather than sitting around and complaining about how the Gov process stuck it to us we went and took it back at them. We became the ones who needed to be accommodated. And the reason was because of Public Support". Sometimes common sense is an easy sell.

Such a "Good Ship Lollipop" non profit is guaranteed to be part of the policy adaption process. It took a lot of my time. But as a miner there are seasons to my activity and thus time is available for miners.

If we pay attention to how the anti mining crowd goes about gaining public support (even lies/distortions) it becomes obvious that methodology is key.

I would not agree that such an organization is Office Work. I would agree it takes a lot of field work and public presentations though. And it takes people willing to be candid and truthful. Truth and facts can be manipulated to win agreement with most things. But it takes people willing and able to put forth the effort and be effective in doing so.

But I went to a "greenie" college and I learned their tactics a long time ago. Their tactics of creating a "Good Ship Lollipop" has been proven to be effective for a lot of years now. I used them on occasion while attending the "greenie college" and got credit for my activism. My geology and coalition of fellow "Fundamentals of Persuasion" class students were instrumental in stopping the Days Creek Dam in Oregon. But we gained public support by doing presentations and provided scientific written geology data against the proposed project.

SO!
Creating and Maintaining Fish Habitat for Future Generations seems like a good ship lollipop approach. So a non profit example would be MSFH: "Maintaining and Supporting Fish Habitat".

The mission statement would be to show all the relevant ways nature and man can maintain and improve fish habitat. Being an avid fisherman for the past 58 years, and having a geology background, I can think of all kinds of ways to do it. The dredging part would be just a token of ways...but it would be promoted endlessly by myself: if I were leading this charge. Gee...do you think the outdoor channel would be willing to help with such a documentary?

My personal opinion is that we end up defending ourselves AFTER the "greenie" groups have floated their "Good Ship Lollipop" in a sea of public opinion and support (revenue as well).....the public support gains the support of lawmakers.

Lately man's fish management hatcheries in Oregon are considered "unnatural". But if we can't breed fish and release them then maybe we can focus on fish habitat. Maybe we can even have bug/larvae hatcheries and place bugs in the food chain for fish. All kinds of "Good Ship Lollipop" considerations.

Now if someone thinks I have missed the mark I am more than willing to accept further idea contributions combating the "anti crowd".

Bejay

 

[Lanny in AB]

I don't think you've missed the ship; I think you've tied-up along side it and are ready to take on passengers to start the good fight.

Hefty is right that a lot of miners aren't cut out for the office work role, but there should be enough that can hack enough of it to get the job done, as it's for a great cause.

Bejay, your idea is light-years beyond my simple change solution, and it has far more depth and reasoning behind it, plus you've proven your techniques through work on actual projects. Those ideas and tactics are solid gold material in their own right.

All the best,

Lanny

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[Clay Diggins]

Well speaking from experience it did not require a lot of office work. Granted you have to find someone willing to be the Secretary of the non-profit. And a free gratis attorney has the ability to do a lot of office stuff (not field work), and the movie industry people love doing their thing (documentaries). And a reral computer geek would be a must! For me the verbal presentations and verbal narrations were my game.

We see a lot of miners doing their video presentations and youtube stuff so that part of the game is easy.....as many of us miners are willing to do "show and tell".

There is a vast variety of tasks required and having a diverse group of people is required. But in my past experience many of my board of directors had an iron in the fire. Do you suppose there might be an attorney who loves to dredge? Or a film crew willing to do some free work on a documentary? I think Tom Massie has one. A coalition of like minded individuals is required and the tasks are distinctly varied. Not just office work.

But I had to be willing to accept invitations to be on TV, Radio and Newspaper interviews....as well as college presentations and civic groups as well. Most importantly the gov agency (in this case the USFS and Ore dept of Fish and Wildlife) always wanted me sitting at the table when the "decision making"/ "policy adaption process" was occurring. Heck I was even nominated for 1st Citizen of the year in my community for my activism. Rather than sitting around and complaining about how the Gov process stuck it to us we went and took it back at them. We became the ones who needed to be accommodated. And the reason was because of Public Support". Sometimes common sense is an easy sell.

Such a "Good Ship Lollipop" non profit is guaranteed to be part of the policy adaption process. It took a lot of my time. But as a miner there are seasons to my activity and thus time is available for miners.

If we pay attention to how the anti mining crowd goes about gaining public support (even lies/distortions) it becomes obvious that methodology is key.

I would not agree that such an organization is Office Work. I would agree it takes a lot of field work and public presentations though. And it takes people willing to be candid and truthful. Truth and facts can be manipulated to win agreement with most things. But it takes people willing and able to put forth the effort and be effective in doing so.

But I went to a "greenie" college and I learned their tactics a long time ago. Their tactics of creating a "Good Ship Lollipop" has been proven to be effective for a lot of years now. I used them on occasion while attending the "greenie college" and got credit for my activism. My geology and coalition of fellow "Fundamentals of Persuasion" class students were instrumental in stopping the Days Creek Dam in Oregon. But we gained public support by doing presentations and provided scientific written geology data against the proposed project.

SO!
Creating and Maintaining Fish Habitat for Future Generations seems like a good ship lollipop approach. So a non profit example would be MSFH: "Maintaining and Supporting Fish Habitat".

The mission statement would be to show all the relevant ways nature and man can maintain and improve fish habitat. Being an avid fisherman for the past 58 years, and having a geology background, I can think of all kinds of ways to do it. The dredging part would be just a token of ways...but it would be promoted endlessly by myself: if I were leading this charge. Gee...do you think the outdoor channel would be willing to help with such a documentary?

My personal opinion is that we end up defending ourselves AFTER the "greenie" groups have floated their "Good Ship Lollipop" in a sea of public opinion and support (revenue as well).....the public support gains the support of lawmakers.

Lately man's fish management hatcheries in Oregon are considered "unnatural". But if we can't breed fish and release them then maybe we can focus on fish habitat. Maybe we can even have bug/larvae hatcheries and place bugs in the food chain for fish. All kinds of "Good Ship Lollipop" considerations.

Now if someone thinks I have missed the mark I am more than willing to accept further idea contributions combating the "anti crowd".

Bejay

Bravo!

I think you've got it Bejay!

 

[timberjack]

I saw in the maine fight how effective trout unlimiited's lobbiest was, it was also apparent that they had solid organization and long range planning, they continiously work on habbitat improvement projects and as a result are tight with the wildlife officals..we are simply being beaten in this game, but, if we could bring a groupe of like minded idividuals together with the goal of educating the public and taking back our rights i think it might make a big diffrance..simply knowing the ins and outs of the process or knowing ahead of time that there was an impending law change would be helpful. Having an expert to call for stratagy on a spacific suBject, someone to organize the fight, focus the aim of the group ect. We need a group that works as hard, are as skilled, and weilds the same INFLUANCE as the greens,,,lmho cause what we are doing now is loosing

 

[EagleDown]

I saw in the maine fight how effective trout unlimiited's lobbiest was, it was also apparent that they had solid organization and long range planning, they continiously work on habbitat improvement projects and as a result are tight with the wildlife officals..we are simply being beaten in this game, but, if we could bring a groupe of like minded idividuals together with the goal of educating the public and taking back our rights i think it might make a big diffrance..simply knowing the ins and outs of the process or knowing ahead of time that there was an impending law change would be helpful. Having an expert to call for stratagy on a spacific suBject, someone to organize the fight, focus the aim of the group ect. We need a group that works as hard, are as skilled, and weilds the same INFLUANCE as the greens,,,lmho cause what we are doing now is loosing

I agree with the suggestions that have been made here!! I also think it's about time that we fought "Fire with Fire". I posted this in another thread, but after reading all of the posts here, I believe it could be used in this righteous cause. The 'greenies' use lies and disinformation to complete their mission(s), so why not push them into a corner. IF they are so intent on bettering the ecology, then why are they allowing this to happen? (Of course it's all about corporate profits)!!
As an aside, the artical doesn't mention the fact that with these EU cars, there are almost '0%' emissions.
50+ MPG Cars "Not Allowed" in USA