No More $5 Adventure Passes

[socalocmatt]

Not sure if this has been posted up yet or not but it looks like a judge ruled that FS can't charge a fee to park anymore

Judge rules against Forest Service fees in Southern California - latimes.com

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[jpdriver1]

they will be fighting back ---

 

[socalocmatt]

they will be fighting back ---

Oh, no doubt. That and/or they'll find another way to get their loot.

 

[Clay Diggins]

It's always been unlawful for them to charge a fee for public land use. This follows on a string of court decisions going back to 1998. Several of which I have personally won.

The fact that the good folks in California have continued to donate their money for lawfully free activities says more about their willingness to line up to be fleeced by their servants than it does about the already well established laws.

Quit paying and they will go away. They don't have a legal leg to stand on and they know it.

Keep paying and you are contributing to breeding the insolence and disregard for our rights so many here complain about.

The choice has always been yours.

 

[socalocmatt]

It's always been unlawful for them to charge a fee for public land use. This follows on a string of court decisions going back to 1998. Several of which I have personally won.

The fact that the good folks in California have continued to donate their money for lawfully free activities says more about their willingness to line up to be fleeced by their servants than it does about the already well established laws.

Quit paying and they will go away. They don't have a legal leg to stand on and they know it.

Keep paying and you are contributing to breeding the insolence and disregard for our rights so many here complain about.

The choice has always been yours.

Never knew and now I do.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Considering how flat out rude some of the FS people are in California they should be paying the people to come visit the parks! If the "Sheeple" keep letting the FS pull the wool over their eyes with fees to use PUBLIC LANDS its no ones fault but their own. I remember when they started "Requiring" those passes. I refused to get one and when approached by the ranger who asked where mine was I replied "In the halls of Congress where this land was declared to belong to the people". He left without ticketing me.

Now I can see requiring a usage fee for large events but to charge the people who own the parks for day usage for things like hiking or mountain biking is just wrong and I'm glad to see that the courts see it that way as well.

 

[Clay Diggins]

This is one one of the most productive and successful organizations in the west. These folks actually win cases. Your California fee issues could be a thing of the long past if people would just pay attention to the law and court decisions and ignore the ranger with his hand out.

Check out Western Slope No Fee Coalition. Look through their site and ask yourself:

"Would I rather support a group who successfully defends the public lands and keeps them free for the people or should I keep giving my money to groups who have never won a case?"

It really is that simple. Do what works or do what feels good.

As I wrote before:

The choice has always been yours.

 

[matthews1026]

Clay I know we spoke about this in PM... I see this article is for national forests...what about state parks? $10 day use fee in state parks in California. I've been told you don't have to pay if you park a mile (I think) away from a developed facility. Thanks for posting the article.

Matt

 

[Clay Diggins]

Read about Jim Smith and how he defended himself (without lawyers or legal help) and won against the illegal Forest Service fees.

We have many modern day heroes among us. I know of three who post to this forum. It's time we stopped relying on money and lawyers to fight our battles. We can win on basic principles. The more people know what those basic principles are the more wins we get and the less powerful our government servants become.

Guys in clown suits with iron on badges don't have any power over you if you are educated about the laws and your rights. Put them in their place and lets make them useful to our society again. Let's take back the days when our government agents were there to serve us and make our lives easier. Let's get educated.

Read Jim's story and maybe you could find it within yourself to be one of our modern day heroes. Maybe just once for just a moment say no to these agencies overreach and greediness. You could start with the simple act of refusing to pay a fee that has never been lawful.

Or?

 

[Clay Diggins]

Clay I know we spoke about this in PM... I see this article is for national forests...what about state parks? $10 day use fee in state parks in California. I've been told you don't have to pay if you park a mile (I think) away from a developed facility. Thanks for posting the article.

Matt

This apples to all the federal public lands - not just National Forests.

State Parks are not public lands. That's another more local battle. A worthy one in my opinion but a States issue not Federal.

 

[matthews1026]

This apples to all the federal public lands - not just National Forests.

State Parks are not public lands. That's another more local battle. A worthy one in my opinion but a States issue not Federal.

Thanks Clay for those links and clearing that up for me!

Matt

 

[Bejay]

As one can see they received help. Nice to see that there was help and guidance available.

Bejay

 

[Bejay]

Well Clay you posted the extent of the ruling(s) on another thread sometime back. I actually copied it and went back to Oregon and distributed it in my community. I fail to locate it now and would appreciate it if you could repost the decision conveying that 8 amenities must be provided before a fee can be required.

Thanks,

Bejay

 

[Clay Diggins]

It's not a court judgement Bejay. It's Federal law passed by Congress. We worked hard to get these limitations on fees on public lands and I personally find it disappointing that the agencies have ignored the restrictions and the vast majority of the people don't seem to care that the very land their ancestors paid for with their blood and their labor are being used as a cash cow by their own employees.

Here's the law:

16 U.S. Code § 6802 - Recreation fee authority

The law is not difficult to understand. No court decision has modified or changed it. It just takes someone with enough sense to copy it and bring it to court to win their case against any agency that charges these fees.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Clay I know we spoke about this in PM... I see this article is for national forests...what about state parks? $10 day use fee in state parks in California. I've been told you don't have to pay if you park a mile (I think) away from a developed facility. Thanks for posting the article.

Matt

Some of what California tries to pass off as State Parks are not.

The Auburn State Recreation Area is not a State Park nor is it State land. It is Federal Public land and private land.

The management agreement that created the ASRA management district does not allow the federal agencies to charge a parking fee or any other access fees.

If the State management team is charging you money to park 16 U.S. Code § 6802 linked above is the controlling law - it's federal public land no matter what name they give it. You don't have to pay any fees.

There may be other similar situations, that's just one I know about.

 

[matthews1026]

Some of what California tries to pass off as State Parks are not.

The Auburn State Recreation Area is not a State Park nor is it State land. It is Federal Public land and private land.

The management agreement that created the ASRA management district does not allow the federal agencies to charge a parking fee or any other access fees.

If the State management team is charging you money to park 16 U.S. Code § 6802 linked above is the controlling law - it's federal public land no matter what name they give it. You don't have to pay any fees.

I was just looking on the Auburn State Recreation Area website and saw this -
"Auburn SRA is made up of mainly federal lands. California State Parks administers the area under a managing partner with the US Bureau of Reclamation."

Then I came back to TNET and saw your post Clay lol.

Thanks again Clay

Matt

 

[Hefty1]

The Auburn State Recreation Area is made up of the lands set aside for the Auburn Dam. California State Parks administers the area under contract with the [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]U.S. Bureau of Reclamation[/FONT][/FONT].

 

[Bejay]

It's not a court judgement Bejay. It's Federal law passed by Congress. We worked hard to get these limitations on fees on public lands and I personally find it disappointing that the agencies have ignored the restrictions and the vast majority of the people don't seem to care that the very land their ancestors paid for with their blood and their labor are being used as a cash cow by their own employees.

Here's the law:


16 U.S. Code § 6802 - Recreation fee authority

The law is not difficult to understand. No court decision has modified or changed it. It just takes someone with enough sense to copy it and bring it to court to win their case against any agency that charges these fees.

Thanks I have it copied and saved to a file now....appreciate it!

Bejay

 

[Clay Diggins]

The story about the ASRA is much more complex than one agency or one purpose. The dam is a dead deal and probably always will be. About half of the management land is private property. Quite a bit of it is BLM managed and a very small part is Forest Service managed. The management contract with the State is very recent and doesn't involve much at all. There is a complex group of rotating two year study withdrawals that overlap and in several circumstances are designed to get around Congressional Acts preventing the locking up of public lands through agency action. The management contract with the State is just another level in the smoke and mirrors covering for federal agency mismanagement and obstruction.

I'd once thought if the real story of the ASRA ever went public the people would respond with anger and demands for change. I know now that the majority of Californians would rather donate $5 to save a whale than face the real problems with their out of control government. I think of it as the "go along to get along State".

 

[Hefty1]

I for one would like to know the whole story about ASRA. As that dam project would have covered my claim with water i believe.