RS 2477 derived from the mining law

Bejay

Bronze Member
Mar 10, 2014
1,026
2,530
Central Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT
Garret fully underwater
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
This is a very important aspect pertaining to gold mining

Compiled by The Western Counties' Resources Policy Institute

Box 27514, Salt Lake City, Utah 84127-0514



The recent increased public attention given to RS 2477 rights-of-way also has been accompanied by an increase in misinformation being spread by some anti-access environmental groups and federal bureaucrats. Sometimes this is because they simply do not understand the issue themselves. Often, however, it is a clear and deliberate effort to deceive.


The following are the fundamental facts on RS 2477. If you encounter anything contrary, you can be certain you are either being misinformed or intentionally mislead. For more detailed information, you should check out the Official RS 2477 Internet site, Rs2477roads.com. (See for yourself why eco-terrorist tried to destroy this web site in July of 1997!)


A word of caution! If those supporting continued public access to the public lands don't discuss RS 2477 accurately they are failing to represent the best interest of the public.


1. RS 2477 is a simple and straightforward law. This is the entire text of RS 2477: "The right-of-way for the construction of highways across public lands not reserved for public purposes is hereby granted."

(Note! this is codified in the first paragraph of the 1972 mining law)....which came from the 1866 mining law. Which in reality is a GRANT. There are 3 Grants in the mining law(s): In simple terms....The right to the surface, the water and the access.....public right of ways.

2. Congress specifically and clearly reaffirmed the validity and intent of RS 2477 in 1976. Because RS 2477 became law in 1866, anti-access extremists argue that it is now somehow inconsistent with modern public land management policy. But just 22 years ago, when Congress repealed RS 2477 and replaced it and many other laws with the Federal Land Policy and Management Act, it specifically and explicitly reaffirmed all RS 2477 grants previously made.


3. RS 2477 was a self-executing law. When the conditions were met, the right-of-way grant was made. No further action by the grantee or by Congress was necessary to validate it.


4. Congress specifically by-passed the Executive Branch of the Federal Government in making RS 2477 grants. Under our Constitution, Congress has the exclusive power to manage and dispose of public lands and property (Article IV, Section 3: "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States;"). In 1976 when Congress reaffirmed the RS 2477 right-of-way granting process established 110 ten years earlier, it had the total power to do so. The federal land management agencies have no independent power or authority over RS 2477 roads (or anything else to do with public lands). Their only authority over public lands is what Congress delegates to them.

4. The RS 2477 right-of-way grant is a property right. Therefore, it enjoys the same constitutional and legal protections as any other property. Legally, when the grant was made, the federal government's interest in the land underlying the right-of-way became the "servient estate" and the interest of the right-of-way grantee became the "dominant estate." That means that while the federal government is protected against unnecessary or undue damage to the land underlying the right-of-way, it cannot interfere with the grantee's exercise of its rights.

5. The RS 2477 grant also conveyed a bundle of associated rights. These include the right to maintain the road and even upgrade the road. This federal law also is unusual because state law plays a major role. It can partially determine the scope of these associated rights, how the requirements of the grant offer were met, and the width of the right-of-way granted.


6. It is legally incorrect to call RS 2477 assertions "claims." The term "claim" suggests that there is some process which must still be followed before the RS 2477 right-of-way is fully granted and valid. In reality, the grant was either validly made before RS 2477 was repealed in 1976 or it was not. If it was, then it is not a claim but a valid grant, and the grantee asserts its validity. If it was not, then it cannot be asserted under a repealed law. The anti-access activists and some federal bureaucrats like to talk about "claims" to confuse the issue. When someone talks about RS 2477 "claims," they are either confused or deceptive.


7. Congress granted a right-of-way, not a road. In fact, RS 2477 rights-of-way can host a number of things besides roads. The legal definition of "highway" in the law means not only the frequently-traveled, periodically-maintained roads commonly associated with it, but also other kinds of public ways, including carriage-ways, bridle-ways, footways, trails, bridges, and even railroads, canals, ferries and navigable rivers. The essential element in defining "highway" is that whatever the means of transport, the public has the right to come and go at will.


8. The present physical condition of a road is totally irrelevant to whether a valid RS 2477 right-of-way exists. This should be obvious, but this is the point on which the anti-access folks are spreading the most misinformation. Whether a road is barely visible on the ground or even has been obliterated for any other reason, the legal status of the right-of-way is not affected. The grantee can legally re-establish the road even if it has totally disappeared. It follows, then, that it also is impossible to determine whether a valid right-of-way exists simply by looking at it. A right-of-way can only be relinquished or abandoned in accordance with state law.


9. A valid RS 2477 road can be established merely by the passage of vehicles. The case law and federal policy for over a century are clear: construction by machinery is not required to do so. Anti-access forces are frantically trying to convince the public otherwise. Don't be mislead.


10. No federal land management agency can determine the validity of an RS 2477 assertion. The agency can only determine for its own administrative purposes whether or not it will recognize the assertion as valid. Constitutionally, only a court can determine the validity.


11. No federal agency has the authority to close an RS 2477 road for any reason, period. This follows logically, but many federal bureaucrats think they have this authority and try to act accordingly. When next you run into one, outline the points listed here and ask them to cite the legal authority by which they claim they can close an RS 2477 road. Ties them in knots.



==========================================



Bejay
 

Last edited:
Upvote 0

Fullpan

Bronze Member
May 6, 2012
1,928
1,528
nevada
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Do "logging roads" fall under RS2477? - or is that apples and oranges ?
 

dredgeman

Sr. Member
Feb 14, 2013
340
249
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Depends on if the road of commerce was in place before 1976
New logging roads would not be under RS-2477
 

Fullpan

Bronze Member
May 6, 2012
1,928
1,528
nevada
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
So, to be clear, I'm thinking of a main road that was in place for access to an old mining claim and cabin. It would fall under RS2477, but in the 1980's a bunch
of logging roads were constructed by Sierra Pacific Industries which gave more access to the river. These roads branched off of the original. So technically the USFS has the right to gate the branching new roads, but not the original ?
 

Clay Diggins

Silver Member
Nov 14, 2010
4,885
14,257
The Great Southwest
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Here is the entire law:

The right of way for the construction of highways over public lands, not reserved for public uses, is hereby granted.

Please notice this is a grant. Once the public way has been established over the public lands no government can take it away. The grant is complete when the public uses the way.

Here is the legal definition of a "highway" as used in RS 2477:

HIGHWAY. A passage or road through the country, or some parts of it, for the use of the people. The term highway is said to be a generic name for all kinds of public ways.

It doesn't matter what new laws are passed, whether the way was used in commerce or whether it was maintained by local authority. It doesn't matter whether it is still in use. It doesn't matter whether the route has changed over time. It doesn't matter who owns the land now. It doesn't matter whether it was paved or maintained. It doesn't matter if it was a foot trail or horse path.

If it was once a public way then it will always be a public way - with the right of the public to travel on it. Always.

Here is an important case from Alaska. Notice how even the military base couldn't stop people from traveling freely on a public way that was never adopted by the State, had changed route over time and was mostly used by one person.

Shultz v. Department of Army

The court ruled that the public way had rights over the later State Schools land, a later private property homestead grant and through the later established Army base. That's powerful stuff! :thumbsup:
 

MadMarshall

Hero Member
Nov 12, 2012
942
1,632
na
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
I get it I know it. But aint it still apples and oranges.. Placer county is full of blocked off roads.. And every year more are being closed.. They say it is to protect the environment..Blah Blah blah... The fact is the LAWS are worthless for the common man. No doubt their was a time when Laws were respected and followed.. But now it seems the only Law IS money. No doubt knowledge is power and it is good to know what rights we should have . But seriously these Laws do nothing for me. Nor do the people who are sworn to uphold these Laws. I guess I could spend years in some court room litigation fighting for my supposed existing rights no doubt this is what they want.. To many forked tounges make a living at the exspense of people in these courtrooms all except the common man being wronged.. Unfortunatly for us these are costly and time consuming and the simple fact is a lot of us just can't afford to fight these injustices..And truthfully how ridiculous is to have to go to court to just be able to get what you already are supposed to have! And truthfully it seems every year our laws become more and more of a JOKE! Anyway all these mining Laws look good on Paper and at one time it seemed they had purpose now it seems the Laws are about as worthless as the paper they are printed on! But that just my thoughts.. Truthfully it seems everyday that passes I lose more and more respect for the White House and it's affiliates.
 

OP
OP
B

Bejay

Bronze Member
Mar 10, 2014
1,026
2,530
Central Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT
Garret fully underwater
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Well MadMarshal.... Most people feel that way. The recent episodes involving the BLM are a result of the frustration of people like yourself. That is not to say that the Bundy case was valid. But a very similar recent situation arose in Utah: "Recapture Canyon". Civil protest is a way to avoid the court system. Politicians are influenced by public demonstrations. Such actions against the USFS and BLM can make a difference. One can also take note of the recent Texas land grab attempt by the BLM....it made national news as well.

But one must know the laws/rules/regs and be willing to stand up for what is right.

Bejay
 

Last edited:

timberjack

Full Member
Sep 29, 2013
203
212
New Hampshire
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Marshal- take a copy of the law to the ranger office and talk to the head honcho,,tell them what has been said here straight out. If they dont listen post it here and together as the mining community mabey we can find a solution. They work for us my friend,,they just forget that once in a while. I bet if they got a bunch of emails things might change...if they wont unlock the gates after an email barrage then we can get in touch with their bosses..congressmen..i have wacthed your vids and know how hard you work to get what you recover..lets work together and recover our rights
 

Last edited:

jog

Bronze Member
Nov 28, 2008
1,364
682
Tillamook Oregon
Detector(s) used
Whites MXT / GMT
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Go out to a raod that you know is a gated 2477 road, cut the lock and drive up & down it until you get caught and get a ticket. Fight it in court & win, set presidence, get gate removed, we all win.Problem is they know that it takes $$$$$$$$$$ and not very many people will test them. "Or" go to your local sheriff & ask him to look into it, then you will know what kind of sheriff you have. Just my two cents worth....
 

Hoser John

Gold Member
Mar 22, 2003
5,854
6,721
Redding,Calif.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Cut the chain NOT the lock and just add yours to it. You will not get ticked ,not pzzzm off too bad and stand a MUCH better chance of getting away with your rights- 2 wrongs do NOT make it right-John
 

KevinInColorado

Gold Member
Jan 9, 2012
7,037
11,370
Summit County, Colorado
Detector(s) used
Grizzly Goldtrap Explorer & Motherlode, Gold Cube with trommel or Banker on top, Angus Mackirk Expedition, Gold-n-Sand Xtream Hand pump
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Cut the chain NOT the lock and just add yours to it. You will not get ticked ,not pzzzm off too bad and stand a MUCH better chance of getting away with your rights- 2 wrongs do NOT make it right-John
Right!
The gate into the Nat Forest area where I am currently prospecting and may file a claim has SIX locks on it! If I find good values and file a claim, I'm likely to be number seven ;-)
 

jog

Bronze Member
Nov 28, 2008
1,364
682
Tillamook Oregon
Detector(s) used
Whites MXT / GMT
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I think some of you are missing the point.

11. No federal agency has the authority to close an RS 2477 road for any reason, period
 

KevinInColorado

Gold Member
Jan 9, 2012
7,037
11,370
Summit County, Colorado
Detector(s) used
Grizzly Goldtrap Explorer & Motherlode, Gold Cube with trommel or Banker on top, Angus Mackirk Expedition, Gold-n-Sand Xtream Hand pump
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
I think some of you are missing the point. 11. No federal agency has the authority to close an RS 2477 road for any reason, period
point taken...so if I wanted I could challenge the existence of the lock on the gate altogether with the confidence that I would win! In my case I'm fully confident as the road dates back to the late 1800's.
 

goldenIrishman

Silver Member
Feb 28, 2013
3,465
6,152
Golden Valley Arid-Zona
Detector(s) used
Fisher / Gold Bug AND the MK-VII eyeballs
Primary Interest:
Other
Well we are working on getting the road that goes right through our claim opened back up or at least get it so we and the claim owner above us can access it without fear of being sited. After talking it over with my neighbor that has the lode claim above us we are willing to compromise with the USFS. We have documentation showing that the road was in place and marked on topo maps before 1976 and copies of the laws to take with us to a meeting with the district ranger. There isn't any gate or chain across the road, but they have placed one of their "Stick signs" stating no vehicles allowed right where it meets up with the main road.

As this road is now part of the Arizona Trail I have a feeling that they're going to buck us all the way on getting it opened back up to vehicle traffic even if it IS only for mining access. We're still getting our ducks in a row and have to figure out when we can both meet up and set an appointment with the district ranger. As soon as we have the meeting with the Ranger I'll let you all know how it turns out.
 

OP
OP
B

Bejay

Bronze Member
Mar 10, 2014
1,026
2,530
Central Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT
Garret fully underwater
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Many years ago the Dist Forest Service Ranger came onto my claim and told me about their upcoming Travel Management Plan. He then eluded to telling me that while the mining laws allow me access it does not state just how that access might occur. He then stated that "I could always access my claim via helicopter......which does not deny me access".

I reminded him that the road and the trails were historic trails, and that I had maps depicting the fact. My road access to my claim has not been closed to my use. My trail is still being used by me and my quad.

This was before I actually became knowledgeable about RS 2477. Knowledge is a great tool. Use it effectively and one may find that doors open easier than one thinks. Lately the use of protecting species and antiquities is the prevalent reasoning argument for closing.

But the following must be defined as well: "If it was once a public way then it will always be a public way - with the right of the public to travel on it." Always.

"TRAVEL"


Bejay
 

Last edited:
OP
OP
B

Bejay

Bronze Member
Mar 10, 2014
1,026
2,530
Central Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT
Garret fully underwater
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
So the questions have been asked:

If a historical trail (public way) has been used as a foot path or horse/rider path can it be upgraded to a motor vehicle way?

If a public way exists are there any circumstances that allow an agency like the BLM or USFS to close/restrict the type of use?

I believe the answers currently lie in this thread. Remember words mean everything. The definition of a word is critical. Also one needs to look up definitions of the words used at the time the law(s) were written. Intent/meaning is the key. In most cases an agency will rely on the ESA or other Acts to close off a public way. For those who really want to grasp the relevancy of all this I will post a law dictionary of the time such things like the mining laws were written. Remember the 1866 mining law and the 1872 mining law have 3 "Grants" and the RS 2477 issue is entirely based on the 1866 Grant. http://www.constitution.org/bouv/bouvier.htm

It is extremely important to understand that in order to "close" an agency "MUST PROVE" there exists a "LAWFUL NEED", and that without such closure/restricted use a lawful harm will result. The "greenies" learned how to utilize such "must prove" tactics to win challenges against the gov agencies. For example: An agency like the USFS will propose a closure/restricted travel based on "proof" they have established within their local jurisdiction (Regional Office) by doing a inexpensive (keeps them busy and getting their paycheck) in house EA (Environmental Assessment).

HOWEVER: This may not meet the letter of the law. Such closure/restricted use actions most likely will require a EIS. Oooooppppss that cost a whole lot of bucks and takes a lot of time. Failure of the agency to perform the required action (EIS) to close/restrict use of a public way leaves an open door for challenge. When and if a justifiable challenge occurs, demanding that the agency perform a full EIS, the cost of said EIS falls squarely on the agency (Oooopps that is big bucks 1/2 mil today) and the court cost challenge is thus paid by them....oooopppppssss....that does not come easy on their budgetary limits.

Often a public outcry will be sufficient to curtail any closures by an agency. Public outcries (protests) force the agency to JUSTIFY their action. Usually they can not....as it most often takes a full blown EIS to meet the letter of the law. But it requires a judge to order/demand such an action. That is why case law is relevant and the posting by Clay is important. The posting by MEG shows the power/voice we have when we unite and gain political support.

If I missed anything feel free to correct me. But I will tell you this: "The Greenies" have been utilizing this challenge tactic for a long time now.

Bejay
 

Last edited:

Fullpan

Bronze Member
May 6, 2012
1,928
1,528
nevada
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
How do you fight against "temporary emergency closures"? I think that is whats happening in the Stanislaus NF now due to the Rim Fire last year. We all
know how "temporary" can extend to years and years. There are reports of massive road closures in areas where there was no fire.
 

OP
OP
B

Bejay

Bronze Member
Mar 10, 2014
1,026
2,530
Central Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT
Garret fully underwater
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
I believe I just answered that question. The answer is "challenge". Or do you simply accept? Two ways to challenge....as explained above.

But words mean everything. How was the "temporary emergency closure" deemed necessary? Who made that determination? How was it decided?...by who? What process allowed that action to occur? Was this action deemed necessary by any other agency?...if so did the process to allow ALL such agencies/public/entities the opportunity to respond?....this is usually called an EIS....not an EA

Define "temporary"...define "emergency" Explain the need. Explain the harm resulting from non closure. What experts made that conclusion? Their own?...was that suffiecient....in accordance with the law?...and not their own CFR's etc. (CFR's are not law)

The Gov never gets it right........(well only 1% of the time) as all court challenges show the gov screws it up 99% of the time.

IT REQUIRES EFFORT. NO ONE DOES IT FOR YOU. It takes PEOPLE WILLING TO CHALLENGE.......TWO WAYS GIVEN ALREADY.

The problem with this country is we the people made a decision to let the Gov run our lives...that way we don't have to do it. IMHO Just saying!

So why do you think I take the time to post this stuff? Because I believe it is time to inform people and let them get this country back. One picket at a time....like building a fence!

But go back and re-read both mine and Clay's post. "NEVER" is a big word....and has tremendous meaning. It is much deeper than that even. As the supreme Court ruled that a Grant is a contract, and once given can not be taken away. The "public way" is a Grant. It has been given and can not be taken away....seems pretty cut and dried.



Bejay
 

Last edited:

cazisme

Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2012
377
258
Motherload
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
El Dorado National Forest near Kyburz they now close some roads in deer season, the roads that have been open for years. Reason is it gets muddy from rain so its a seasonal closure. Then the idjit rangers give tickets to people who park off the road becouse its not designated parking area.
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top