profitable mining(just for converstion)

[KiddoTheMiner]

on my other thread where I was talking about reaching my goal of 2.5 grams a day the region of making profit was brought up
even though mining for a living is not necessarily on my mind now its a good conversation starter, talking about how you might do what and how
if you where mining for profit(the forum has been kind of boring and negative anyhow)


heavy pans everyone

 

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[KiddoTheMiner]

so talking as far as material movage goes a one man operation may want to move 2 yards an hour, unless you are a super shoveler that's not possible
so you could theoretically use this

and then you could probably use a highbanker to run it
then its a matter id how much your getting per yard

 

[SLNugget]

This is probably larger scale than you are talking, but I think you will find it interesting to read.

Ophir Placer Gold Mine - An Example - Larger Scale Placer Mining Operations and Equipment - ICMJ's Mining Journal Forums

 

[KiddoTheMiner]

This is probably larger scale than you are talking, but I think you will find it interesting to read.

Ophir Placer Gold Mine - An Example - Larger Scale Placer Mining Operations and Equipment - ICMJ's Mining Journal Forums

larger scale but interesting
heres a small mine in south Carolina that looks cool

 

[Terry Soloman]

It really boils down to the claim you are working. If the gold is there you can do it. I know several placer miners that can drywash a couple of grams a day in Arizona. They work hard, don't eat enough, live a very hard life, and sell their gold for (on average) 75% of spot.

 

[KiddoTheMiner]

It really boils down to the claim you are working. If the gold is there you can do it. I know several placer miners that can drywash a couple of grams a day in Arizona. They work hard, don't eat enough, live a very hard life, and sell their gold for (on average) 75% of spot.

good point

forgive me if im wrong but from what ive seen out of Arizona it looks hard to mess up gold mining

I mean run a recirculating system maybe do 25 yards a day at $10 a yard that's 250 a day
times 270 days a year(average American workdays) that like $68,000
minus running costs maybe 55k
not rich, but not bad either, typical American income

 

[SLNugget]

good point

forgive me if im wrong but from what ive seen out of Arizona it looks hard to mess up gold mining

I mean run a recirculating system maybe do 25 yards a day at $10 a yard that's 250 a day
times 270 days a year(average American workdays) that like $68,000
minus running costs maybe 55k
not rich, but not bad either, typical American income

$20.00-$30.00/day for fuel for equipment needed to run 25 yds/day
You will be required to post reclamation bond figure $2000.00
minimum along with filing a POO.
you will likely have to have a helper so figure a salary there
this does not include the capital to purchase your equipment
also gotta have a way to haul water-
a lot of water to process 25 yds with a recirc system. With our operation it takes 70 - 80 gallons to process 1 yard of material. That's 2000 gals/day

If it were as easy as you describe you would not be able to stir the miners with a stick in AZ. I have a couple of claims in AZ if you want to come try it.

 

[Hoser John]

SMOKE DREAMS-WET OPS IN THE MIDDLE A THE DESERT

 

[GrizzlyGremlin]

Wen gold hits $10k an ounce ill come down there. As far as real profit goes, dredging is most likely your best bet to make a little extra income. Its about as complicated a concept as the old lady vacuuming the stairs. Its also your best bet for cheaply moving as much material as possible. My cost for a one day trip is as follows,
$28 car gas
$8 dredge gas
$15 pass
=$51
We need just over a gram. Its not unfeasible but the dirt we move averages $1-$4 per yard. We always move 10-15 yards per 8 hours. Are talking averaging $10-$60 a day.
There are better days but you cant consistently count on those bonus days. Im going to just about break even this season. Except i will have $4000 dredge not paid off. I only dig one day a week but im consistent. Ive been doing a trip every tuesday since april. Im not quitting my career just yet. Maybe when i hit that true colorado or wyoming virgin that has 20,000 yards of dirt at 1gram a yard.
This is my first year dredging and you must account for the learning curve. Im not finding as much because im green. Im learning quickly but honestly it takes running a lot of dirt to recognize what is good and what is garbage.
High banking goes along with this as well but wears your body out 10x as fast.

 

[KiddoTheMiner]

heres another idea for a commercial op
mix this

with this
http://www.goldhog.com/goldhogpicture2012450.gif
you could move maybe 2 yards an hour
I think this would do well in the east because a landowner would be more willing to let you run this on his land than most anything
aside from a shovel(for a portion of the gold)
plus low running costs

 

[Clay Diggins]

We consider 3 grams a yard minimum break even. That's with easy access and workable surface placer deposits. That's 3 grams for every yard - not just the good days. We have a producing placer mine in New Mexico that consistently produces that 3 grams per yard and will continue to for many years to come. And yes it's in the desert and yes we process with water most of the year. This mine feeds it's two full time miners well and pays their living expenses. Not much more.

Sometimes you hear fantastic figures of great gobs of gold in every bucket in Arizona. They are fantastic for a reason. They are not true. The best paying mines here produced 7 - 10 ounces per ton in a few small stopes. Real life averages are closer to 7/10 ounce per ton for successful mines. They were successful because there were a lot of tons to be mined at those averages - not because a few tons averaged 7 ounces. Mines that average 7 ounces a ton day in and day out do not exist. No matter what wild tales you hear on the internet or from those looking for you to invest in their paper schemes.

We are exploring a hardrock vein that is assaying 5 ounces per ton. Assays are misleading to the inexperienced. 5 ounces per ton for higrade is a good assay but it does not mean a mine on that vein will ever produce anywhere near 5 ounces per ton. I say exploring because we are not hardrock miners by experience. We hope to prove the vein doesn't "pinch out" as so many do. If we can prove the value of the deposit as a whole we will try to sell it to real hardrock miners. For now it is just a money sink. It will become more so should we choose to go the next step and pay for some sample drilling. No profits for the foreseeable future no matter how rich the ore is.

The business of mining is about factoring in all your costs. Just looking at how much gold you mined in a day minus your daily expenses is not business nor does it prove a profit. The operation in New Mexico is barely break even but it does support two miners. It takes a lot of time and money to prove a deposit of that size. Mining before you know how much gold will be recovered is a fools game. Real prospectors always prove a deposit before mining. Once you factor in your expenses for finding and proving a valuable mineral deposit it's surprising how much gold it takes to reach a profitable position.

As you can see prospecting is a gamble. The chances of success are more related to your own skills and knowledge as well as the ability to resist betting on a low pair because it "might" pay off. That's the mistake most beginning prospectors make, working ground that doesn't pay a profit instead of spending their time looking for a good paying deposit. Digging 1/2 gram dirt is great for enjoying a weekend hobby but hoping that gram will turn into an ounce if you keep digging is a poor bet.

There is good money to be made in mining small deposits. I know of several families in New Mexico who put their children through college by mining with them in the summer. Of course they had already found and proven the gold deposit before making the leap to mining for profit.

It's still out there. It is possible to mine for a living. Keep learning and exploring. Find a good deposit and then work it and you too could become a full time profitable miner. Or keep digging the same old non paying spots and enjoy the hobby. The choice is yours. Whatever path you choose to take enjoy the ride.

Heavy Pans

 

[KiddoTheMiner]

We consider 3 grams a yard minimum break even. That's with easy access and workable surface placer deposits. That's 3 grams for every yard - not just the good days. We have a producing placer mine in New Mexico that consistently produces that 3 grams per yard and will continue to for many years to come. And yes it's in the desert and yes we process with water most of the year. This mine feeds it's two full time miners well and pays their living expenses. Not much more.

Sometimes you hear fantastic figures of great gobs of gold in every bucket in Arizona. They are fantastic for a reason. They are not true. The best paying mines here produced 7 - 10 ounces per ton in a few small stopes. Real life averages are closer to 7/10 ounce per ton for successful mines. They were successful because there were a lot of tons to be mined at those averages - not because a few tons averaged 7 ounces. Mines that average 7 ounces a ton day in and day out do not exist. No matter what wild tales you hear on the internet or from those looking for you to invest in their paper schemes.

We are exploring a hardrock vein that is assaying 5 ounces per ton. Assays are misleading to the inexperienced. 5 ounces per ton for higrade is a good assay but it does not mean a mine on that vein will ever produce anywhere near 5 ounces per ton. I say exploring because we are not hardrock miners by experience. We hope to prove the vein doesn't "pinch out" as so many do. If we can prove the value of the deposit as a whole we will try to sell it to real hardrock miners. For now it is just a money sink. It will become more so should we choose to go the next step and pay for some sample drilling. No profits for the foreseeable future no matter how rich the ore is.

The business of mining is about factoring in all your costs. Just looking at how much gold you mined in a day minus your daily expenses is not business nor does it prove a profit. The operation in New Mexico is barely break even but it does support two miners. It takes a lot of time and money to prove a deposit of that size. Mining before you know how much gold will be recovered is a fools game. Real prospectors always prove a deposit before mining. Once you factor in your expenses for finding and proving a valuable mineral deposit it's surprising how much gold it takes to reach a profitable position.

As you can see prospecting is a gamble. The chances of success are more related to your own skills and knowledge as well as the ability to resist betting on a low pair because it "might" pay off. That's the mistake most beginning prospectors make, working ground that doesn't pay a profit instead of spending their time looking for a good paying deposit. Digging 1/2 gram dirt is great for enjoying a weekend hobby but hoping that gram will turn into an ounce if you keep digging is a poor bet.

There is good money to be made in mining small deposits. I know of several families in New Mexico who put their children through college by mining with them in the summer. Of course they had already found and proven the gold deposit before making the leap to mining for profit.

It's still out there. It is possible to mine for a living. Keep learning and exploring. Find a good deposit and then work it and you too could become a full time profitable miner. Or keep digging the same old non paying spots and enjoy the hobby. The choice is yours. Whatever path you choose to take enjoy the ride.

Heavy Pans

very true
also from what I know the small ops can do something the larger ones cant, snipe
when you go prospecting in an active stream bed you will sample it and find the best spot, right
a large op would just mine the whole gravel bar and if that gravel bar isn't productive enough overall then they will leave it
say a gravel bar averaged $2 a yard so it wasn't minable, if you sniped out the best spot you might get $18 a yard
so with the op idea I posted above(2 man op) 2.5 yards an hour X $18 = 45 - $5 in gas = $20 an hour per person
$20 X 9 hours a day X 270 work days a year = $48600, not rich but not poor

 

[KiddoTheMiner]

very true
also from what I know the small ops can do something the larger ones cant, snipe
when you go prospecting in an active stream bed you will sample it and find the best spot, right
a large op would just mine the whole gravel bar and if that gravel bar isn't productive enough overall then they will leave it
say a gravel bar averaged $2 a yard so it wasn't minable, if you sniped out the best spot you might get $18 a yard
so with the op idea I posted above(2 man op) 2.5 yards an hour X $18 = 45 - $5 in gas = $20 an hour per person
$20 X 9 hours a day X 270 work days a year = $48600, not rich but not poor

Btw are you talking just shoveling gravel for a living
Or employing a mini excavator because 3 grams is $120
If you can move 20 yards a day thats $2400 a day
270 days a year thats $648,000
Id think theres some wiggle room there

 

[SLNugget]

Btw are you talking just shoveling gravel for a living
Or employing a mini excavator because 3 grams is $120
If you can move 20 yards a day thats $2400 a day
270 days a year thats $648,000
Id think theres some wiggle room there

it's very difficult to impossible to run 270 days a year in the SW. Your figures make things look pretty rosey. Reality is something else again. Keep working to make it happen and you will be rewarded. Good luck.

 

[KiddoTheMiner]

it's very difficult to impossible to run 270 days a year in the SW. Your figures make things look pretty rosey. Reality is something else again. Keep working to make it happen and you will be rewarded. Good luck.

I guess thats cause in Georgia we can practically mine year round
What stops you from running year round in the Southwest isnt it warm year round

 

[SLNugget]

Weather - Lower altitudes you have extreme heat to contend with for a couple three months. 100 - 115+ Higher altitudes to escape summer heat you will have winter snows to deal with.

You are getting the benefit of many years experience from many miners on your threads. I think you should print it out and save it so you can refer to the info and also to compare it your experiences down the road. :-)

 

[KiddoTheMiner]

Weather - Lower altitudes you have extreme heat to contend with for a couple three months. 100 - 115+ Higher altitudes to escape summer heat you will have winter snows to deal with.

You are getting the benefit of many years experience from many miners on your threads. I think you should print it out and save it so you can refer to the info and also to compare it your experiences down the road. :-)

here's a solution for that, have 2 claims to work one each part of the year
then I guess you have added transportation costs but still better than nothing
has anyone tried that

 

[SLNugget]

Yes many do that but not many on the scale you are suggesting. The extreme is summers in Alaska winters in the SW with gear in both places. The scale you are talking about would require multiple personnel to accomplish in any location. More people equals more issues to deal with on a daily basis. First thing is to find 2 claims that produce like you are projecting. Not an easy task for anyone. And each claim will have to have legs for your theoretical scheme to work. 270 X 25 = 6,750 cu yds/year. Pretty big hole in the ground.

Reread what Clay Diggins posted. He deals with this stuff daily and has experience and knowledge. Many of the other posters are giving you very good advice too. Absorb all you can.

 

[KiddoTheMiner]

Yes many do that but not many on the scale you are suggesting. The extreme is summers in Alaska winters in the SW with gear in both places. The scale you are talking about would require multiple personnel to accomplish in any location. More people equals more issues to deal with on a daily basis. First thing is to find 2 claims that produce like you are projecting. Not an easy task for anyone. And each claim will have to have legs for your theoretical scheme to work. 270 X 25 = 6,750 cu yds/year. Pretty big hole in the ground.

Reread what Clay Diggins posted. He deals with this stuff daily and has experience and knowledge. Many of the other posters are giving you very good advice too. Absorb all you can.

the scale im talking about is a mini excavator and a large highbanker, that could fit in a pickup truck with a trailer

also im talking more for a mine in Georgia not Arizona
but a far as just having one claim and only running part of the year, its might be an idea to have a winter or summer job that you run when you cant mine
mining brings most of your income but the summer job helps(Im pretty sure miners in Alaska do this)