Busted @ Ruck-a-Chuck Middle Fork Camp. Community input please?

[CApicker]

The weekend started out nice as I arrived at Rucky Chucky on the Middle Fork American and met up with a couple of my good prospector friends... Until...

The tide came up quick as it does prior to the rafters taking their run through, and we waved and chatted with them as they rafted by. finally as the rafters finished I noticed a green colored raft pull up to the bank a little ways from where we were working. I paid little attention until I came up from panning out some pay dirt to see my friend being told to gather up his stuff and get the hell out of there! The 3 Rafting Rangers had come on land to check us out. Once they had departed my friend showed me that he had been served with a ticket for defacing State property; the charge was "Rock Hounding" this offense caries between $10.00 to $1,000.00 depending on the judge I guess...

This was mostly due to having small garden shovels and pry-bars. as the Ranger said "you should know the rules going into the park - hands and pans only"
My question to all of you is - have I been doing this all wrong? Is it time to call it quits? Without some of my scrapper tools I would have not gotten any gold this year at all. Does anyone else use a shovel, pry-bar, sucker bottle, spoon - knife etc... to get into the cracks? I guess it's all illegal
Please respond with what is in your Gold Bag, and any other thoughts on what this ticket means. Thank you!

 

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[Clay Diggins]

I found it last night and I am halfway through. It has some contradictory language in regards to natural resources and I am interested in how the 1872 mining act and the language contained in the Jan 2012 agreement go together in regards to protection of the miners rights.

Here are the parts relating to the States enforcement rights. An MPA or any agreement or regulation can not trump federal laws as is clearly outlined here. California State Parks can make all the regs they want but they don't mean squat if there is a federal law (like the 1872 mining Act) that already addresses the issue.

(d) Scope of Services to be provided by the State:
(i) LAW ENFORCEMENT
4. The State’s rules and regulations will be consistent with
regulations promulgated by Reclamation in 43 Code of Federal
Regulations, Part 423 and Part 429 (Attachments) and other applicable
Federal and State laws, rules, regulations, and policies currently in place
or as may be adopted in the future.

(viii) CULTURAL RESOURCE MANAGEMENT
1. The State is not responsible for Cultural Resource Management
in the Project Areas.

17. REAL PROPERTY MANAGEMENT
(f) The State is not responsible for any real property management including, but not limited to; unauthorized land uses, resource damage boundary encroachments and disputes and other real property issues on Federal lands within the Project Areas.

 

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[MadMarshall]

So what does that all mean?

"To implement reclamation for locatable mining activities on BLM administered lands, the 43 CFR 3809 regulations apply. These regulations address three levels of surface disturbing activities: (1) for casual use where mechanized equipment and explosives are not used, there is no requirement to contact the BLM; (2) if proposed exploration would cause a surface disturbance of five acres or less per year, the operator is required to submit a notice to BLM 15 days before starting work; and (3) a plan of operation must be submitted to BLM if the surface activity is more than casual use. The plan of operation must contain a detailed description of the proposed mining and reclamation activities. All operations, whether casual, under a notice, or under a plan of operation must be reclaimed.

Revised 43 CFR 3809 regulations became effective on January 20, 2001. Some of the major changes are: the elimination of the five acres threshold for plans of operations, all mining beyond "casual use" will require a plan, and financial bonding is required for any disturbance greater than "casual use." Notices are required for exploration proposals on less than five acres. For the first time, BLM can reject a mining proposal if the proposal will cause "substantial irreparable harm to significant scientific, cultural, or environmental resource values of the public lands that cannot be effectively mitigated."

Is "Casual use" Acceptable on ASRA lands... ??
Maybe some one can break this down simply? on what you can and can't do.. I aint sure about everyone else but my education is limited and all this legal bullshhht just confuses the hell out of me.. And often it seems to contradict themselves.

 

[Hoser John]

Don't feel bad MM as the lawyers and bureauratz have spent many years and untold millions of the taxpayers dollars to complicate these laws as much as possible. You can ask 3 cops/rangers/ocifers the exact same question and get different answers to the same question. sic anti mining world. But oh yes it's all ok as the pixies at the jewelry stores and Home depot manufacture gold and minerals outta magic environutz dust more sic sic sic sic sic

 

[CApicker]

Pretty easy for them to sneak up on you when they're floating down the river on a raft. Same guys on the same river did the same to me but I was only sniping and didn't have any tools out or even a pan so they didn't have much to say to me and I didn't get a ticket. I had my head down in the water waving gravel around when they floated up next to me and parked their raft. They didn't make a peep until they were right on me.. Told me not to harm any plants or rocks because they're protected. Should have put a small hole in their raft.. Hehe As they pushed off again my buddy who was with me yelled "Don't fall in!" I think they only do their little raft patrols on weekends so if anyone wants to avoid them go during weekdays if possible or prospect in an area where it's impossible for them to stop.

This is a great reply. Thanks NuggetN8. Ya not sure how they got up on my buddy so fast but who would have thought they were coming on land? I saw them pick up a piece of trash on the shore without getting out and figured they were doing that; but guess not. Also I have had rangers stop and say hello just miles from this area in the ASRA. I was also thinking if we wer just past the raft exit beach (the campground) we would have been fine because all teh rafts including teh ranger get out at that point.

 

[diverrick]

I was just at Mammoth bar SRA, Murderers bar. Just below RC rapids. I was pissed that I had to pay 10 bucks to simply park.
I didn't find even the slightest trace of gold, but I was also afraid someone might call me on being there. I figured if I went far enough away the rangers would not feel obliged to walk that far to badger me. I never saw a sole. But last I heard it was legal to use common hand tools for prospecting. Did that rule change somewhere along the line? I left the sluice in the car for that very same reason as I was not sure.
As mentioned above, the rule of hands and pans was retracted due to public outcry, so where is it now, and by what statute?

 

[Asmbandits]

I was at murderers bar on labor day, a few people out there, I had my pan, hand trowel and rock pick, the standard for prospecting and at the time I was under the impression that it was pans only but the kind that makes common sense.. I sampled only a three spot right where your talking about and in one I found a nice chunky flake, the other two nothing.. I was with the family so I hardly got to dip the pan in the water but for 3 rushed pans I was somewhat impressed.

 

[goldenmojo]

I was just at Mammoth bar SRA, Murderers bar. Just below RC rapids. I was pissed that I had to pay 10 bucks to simply park.
I didn't find even the slightest trace of gold, but I was also afraid someone might call me on being there. I figured if I went far enough away the rangers would not feel obliged to walk that far to badger me. I never saw a sole. But last I heard it was legal to use common hand tools for prospecting. Did that rule change somewhere along the line? I left the sluice in the car for that very same reason as I was not sure.
As mentioned above, the rule of hands and pans was retracted due to public outcry, so where is it now, and by what statute?

I have used tools all through the ASRA area and I will continue to do so. I have the Mike Lynch Letter and I will carry that. I have talked with rangers at ruck-a-chucky about working the bedrock while wearing my pack full of tools with a shovel and pick hanging out of it and while leaning on my full sized shovel. We had a great conversation and no ticket. I also was summoned by the ranger to move my truck which was parked in the no parking zone in front of the outhouse at Yankee Jim's. I was up on exposed bedrock 50' away from the water with a full compliment of crevicing tools. All they said was I couldn't park there and that they didn't want to give me a ticket. A long time ago? All within the last year. The Raft Rangers were in the wrong! Carry the letter with you and stand up for your rights. Also check out Auburn Goldhounds as they are in this fight all the time.

 

[CApicker]

Tx Goldenmojo. What a grey area

 

[Hoser John]

Not gray just sic sic sic mindless harassment plain and simple. I always carry have my legal folder with me now even on my own claims . -John

 

[Goldkid55]

Rules are rules and their there for a reason and not for all of us to break dont complain when you get busted is my perspective...

 

[goldenmojo]

To get busted for breaking a law is one thing. Perhaps you should read the letter signed by superintendent Mike Lynch and then comment.

 

[Goldwasher]

The only people breaking rules were the Rangers NEWKIDD

 

[2cmorau]

took a friend from Wisconsin out to the confluence, park just past the bridge NF side, thier is a small paved turn out spot ya can't park signs posted but people can't read, i was using a sluice box out on the beach down river from the old landslide, below where upper paid parking lot is. I and can see my truck from where we were digging MF side, Ranger was giving out parking tickets to those parked in the no parking area, we were using all kinds of tools, shovel, gad bar, maybe didn't see us but then this was a couple of years ago
i agree John keep with ya paper work on claims n your rights, the picture i posted of the guy in the white truck, not to be seen since that day. posted more mining claim signs n left note in the last spot where others last dug don't know what else to do

 

[tyeechinook]

Sounds like an uneducated opinion to me gold kid. Asra is open to use of digging tools panning, metal detecting, sluice boxes, and I have used all of the above at ruck a chucky, and all over the asra for a long time. Rangers have checked me out in many areas of asra and have never had an issue. Perhaps there's a few rangers that need to be educated on the laws they are paid to enforce. I could see it if your digging up a raft take out or put in, or maybe under a road or something. They were ticketed for rock hounding, which is non sense. I feel like with the laws on paper, this would be quickly dismissed in court. And I highly advise the guys that received the tickets to fight it.


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[Aufisher]

Rules are rules and their there for a reason and not for all of us to break dont complain when you get busted is my perspective...

Please tell us a bit more about your perspective in this case.

 

[fowledup]

Along the same lines I've got quite the collection of emails going back and forth with the park service concerning reservoirs, metal detecting, rock hounding, prospecting, and what constitutes current stream entry proper and the different set of "rules" governing those areas. Basically I can legally metal detect as long as I don't disturb any soil, rocks, minerals, plants, or artifacts. I can hands and pans only prospect in the current stream or river entry point where moving water is present within the waterline only.
On the bright side it's totally legal for me to mount a backhoe on my party barge to aid my grandkids in the construction of their sand castle metropolis'. BS never ends. So my new plan is to metal detect and when I locate something promising I'll set a small landscape flag for the grandkids to dig another sand castle and collect the "rocks" for grandpa.

 

[goldenmojo]

Nothing like teaching the young ones the value of constructing an edifice to the absurdity of the regulations born of those that harbor the affliction of non compos mentis...

 

[Hoser John]

Hahahah now that post'l get'm running for their dictionaries

 

[russau]

places where a lot of people have gone are going tobe watched by these types of "guardians of the land" and other wacoenviromentalists! go somewhere that's NOT populated and that hasn't been beat to death! heck you probly could even run a small dredge in California and not ever be bothered by these socalled "guardians of the land"... im not saying to break the "UNJUST/ILLEGAL LAWS" but just use some commonsense! and never post your location or any landmarks of where your enjoying your Constitutional rights!

 

[jog]

Rules are rules & Laws are laws, I believe under Title 5 it states Know, or Should have known. Maybe the rolly polly round guy needs to have charges filed against him for "NOT" Knowing the laws that he is writing bogus tickets for. Maybe he needs a tast of his own medicine.