Busted @ Ruck-a-Chuck Middle Fork Camp. Community input please?

[CApicker]

The weekend started out nice as I arrived at Rucky Chucky on the Middle Fork American and met up with a couple of my good prospector friends... Until...

The tide came up quick as it does prior to the rafters taking their run through, and we waved and chatted with them as they rafted by. finally as the rafters finished I noticed a green colored raft pull up to the bank a little ways from where we were working. I paid little attention until I came up from panning out some pay dirt to see my friend being told to gather up his stuff and get the hell out of there! The 3 Rafting Rangers had come on land to check us out. Once they had departed my friend showed me that he had been served with a ticket for defacing State property; the charge was "Rock Hounding" this offense caries between $10.00 to $1,000.00 depending on the judge I guess...

This was mostly due to having small garden shovels and pry-bars. as the Ranger said "you should know the rules going into the park - hands and pans only"
My question to all of you is - have I been doing this all wrong? Is it time to call it quits? Without some of my scrapper tools I would have not gotten any gold this year at all. Does anyone else use a shovel, pry-bar, sucker bottle, spoon - knife etc... to get into the cracks? I guess it's all illegal
Please respond with what is in your Gold Bag, and any other thoughts on what this ticket means. Thank you!

 

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[CApicker]

OK here is an update... My buddy just recieved notice via CERTIFIED MAIL (a young girl knocked on his door) that his court date for Rock Hounding was changed from late Oct. to Oct. 7 and the CHARGES have changed to: 4611-(G) !!!
So here is the law they now are charging him with from Google search:

TITLE 14. NATURAL RESOURCES
DIVISION 3. DEPARTMENT
OF PARKS AND RECREATION
CHAPTER 6. PROVISIONS LIMITED TO SPECIFIC UNITS
§ 4611. Rockhounding.
(g) Areas Limited for Collecting.
In state recreation areas

rockhounding
is limited to beaches which lie within the jurisdiction of the
Department and within the wave action zone on lakes, bays, reservoirs, or on the ocean, and to the
beaches or gravel bars which are subject to annual flooding on streams.

So thats what we are dealing with now from the ASRA.

Can anyone say Ranger FAIL!!!? This poor *ss didn't even know the law at the time he ticketed my buddy?!?!?
OMG! he had to send a certified letter to re-define the charges?!? (EPOC FAIL) I feel the desire to re-post his picture so that you can see his poor *ss that will be handed to him on 10-07 but I won't.
Please any thoughts or help would be appreciated as the date draws nearer...

To all my TN friends and community keep on doing what you are doing and let's not be intimidated! EPA Whistle-blower's confirm that no noticibale damege occurs from the proccess of Dredging let alone panning \ sluicing in California and I feel that we are being restricted and bullied by local ordinence for no tangable reason! The very riverways, roads to them, and trails around them were mostly created for access to Gold in the past. The ASRA can thank all of the prospectors from the past and present for this service and don't forget we still clean lead and all kinds of trash out of the riverways today! You're welcome

 

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[fowledup]

That all sounds about right. When I received my citation I was courteous and polite, I admitted I knew I was legally in the wrong but felt I was morally and in good conscience right. The warden that cited me agreed in principal, appreciated my politeness and attitude and said he was writing the citation in the least damaging way he could (which when I checked the CCR' s he had); however when I received the certified copy and court date it had changed and they had thrown the book at me. I understand they can be reviewed and modified.

In your initial post you stated that your friend had been cited for rockhounding, I'm a tad bit confused (normal thing for me) about what exactly the LEO is citing you for. It appears to me you were written up for doing what your supposed to and can easily prove it. I get it that your citation is for rock hounding, but doesn't it state what part you are being cited for? We're you to far away in his opinion.

 

[2cmorau]

Clay is given ya the support jsut download that info hand it to the judge.
That brochure is older than the dredge ban. Nothing "new" about it.

The State Parks Superintendent Order Number 690-006-2010, changing the SRA to a "Hands and Pans only" was withdrawn in April of 2010 - long after that brochure was printed. It is still legal to dig your material with tools. The Auburn SRA rules allow gold panning, the use of sluice boxes, power sluicing, the use of non-motorized small tools (for example shovels, pics, and hand trowels) and the use of metal detectors.

That fat revenue agent is trying to enforce rules that haven't existed for more than 4 years.
The Auburn State Recreation Area is neither State property nor a State Park. It's a management agreement between the State of California and several Federal Agencies (BLM,BOR, FS) to manage the federal lands along the rivers. These guys can't enforce much of anything. State Park rules and regs don't apply in the SRA although they would like you to believe they do.

(d) Scope of Services to be provided by the State:
(i) LAW ENFORCEMENT
4. The State’s rules and regulations will be consistent with
regulations promulgated by Reclamation in 43 Code of Federal
Regulations, Part 423 and Part 429 (Attachments) and other applicable
Federal and State laws, rules, regulations, and policies currently in place
or as may be adopted in the future.

(viii) CULTURAL RESOURCE MANAGEMENT
1. The State is not responsible for Cultural Resource Management
in the Project Areas.

17. REAL PROPERTY MANAGEMENT
(f) The State is not responsible for any real property management including, but not limited to; unauthorized land uses, resource damage boundary encroachments and disputes and other real property issues on Federal lands within the Project Areas.

 

[Hoser John]

Cry fowl fowled and appeal that insanity. NEVER trust judges to follow the law,just their own preconceived eco intentions. Example-Blackbone got a ticket for parking 80 feet from the outside rail of the train tracks. I took the legal statute that mandated 50' from the CENTER of the track so he was legal by over 40' . The judge nailed him with a $635 fine and threatened to throw the book at me for contempt for presenting the LAW to a judge. My god---heaven forbid he do his job. He said he must have gotten closer than that to the tracks getting there-even though he'd admitted he'd never been there-so with a stinkn' smirk the jerk nailed'm to the wall. Just saying caution-John

 

[AuSomeness]

This is an interesting thread... for good and bad reasons. It's good to hear that everyone is willing to get together on this topic. It's bad that we have to. Being a newbie, this is a subject that has caused me worry. I read many of the documents and articles posted here before I ever went into the ASRA. I have to say that it was still as clear as mud as to what the rules are. I came prepared for whatever activity... prospecting, metal detecting, or just being in the out doors. So, upon arriving, I spoke to the young lady at the booth about the rules. That day, there happened to be a prospecting group there, so she was happy to provide any information that she could. For what it's worth, I have attached a copy of this document in JPEG format. I received this document on 7/19/2014. In the upper left, it is dated 3/18/14 v.7.

I'd love to hear what folks think of this document. I feel for the OP about being cited. I definitely would not be happy about that! I hope that you're able to get the information you need to have it not become a hardship for you. I, like many others, hope to get an understanding of what the REAL rules are... but I don't think fear is needed. It sounds like there are some shady things going on, but I won't let it ruin the fun we call prospecting!

 

[fowledup]

Just like everything else it's written so that if they want to write you up they are justified in doing so. It's sad and pathetic.

 

[Hoser John]

ASRA is DOA what a sic convaluted pile a festering .......

 

[AuSomeness]

From what I read, the document states that you can only prospect in sand areas or gravel bars (item #7). Why would such a restriction be put into place? Then, further down in item # 12 it says:

"Rockhounding. Defined as being the recreational gathering of stones and minerals found occuring naturally on the undisturbed surface of the land, including panning for gold in the natural water-washed gravel of streams (T-14 CCR 4611)."

So it sounds like you CAN pan for gold in the stream... but maybe this is where the "pans and hands"-only part applies? Tools seem to be allowed elsewhere. There are quite a few restrictions in here...

 

[BurntBear]

Using a pan only without even a trowel is ridiculous to the
point of absurdity. Clearly, the statute was written solely as
a money maker for the state. They're a bunch of thieves
and they have guns and badges to prove it.

Can't say here what my response to the cops might be if some
knothead with a ticket book told me he was going to write me a
ticket for that, but I can assure you it would involve the strong
suggestion that he take off on a flying sexual encounter with a
globally rotating lunar object.

Absolute lunacy.

Epic.

 

[goldenmojo]

From what I read #5 covers it. Material for sluice boxes or gold panning.

 

[AuSomeness]

From what I read #5 covers it. Material for sluice boxes or gold panning.

Were you actually running a sluice there? Or maybe it was just where the material was being pulled from? Just trying to make sure I understand so I can avoid this as well. Best of luck to you!

 

[Reed Lukens]

Be sure to get a copy of the rules seen above from the ASRA office. A lot of the rangers are volunteer greenies and don't wear a regular badge. It says volunteer on it. Take a copy of the rules to court and post the date/ time/ room/ and directions for a meeting place on here for others who want to attend with you. You should contact the Goldhounds because we just went through this 2 years ago and straightened the rangers out then. They had forged papers and broken the law. For you this time it was simple harassment by the rangers as you were doing nothing wrong. When I was harassed 2 years ago I explained to the ranger the rules of the ASRA because he really had no idea of the rules or where the high waterlines actually were. This is a common annoyance with the ASRA so go prepared when you go mining to be able to teach them the rules. The ranger was kind and polite to me because I took the few minutes to teach him. I did have rangers screaming at me one day to stop using tools from the top of Yankee Jims bridge, I waved & said no and they moved on not wanting to walk down to where I was. If the rangers give you any flak then call the Sheriff and report what happened and let them handle it for you. If a ranger is breaking the law then let the law set him straight.

 

[Armchair prospector]

Life as we know it is a clusterf*** of liberal ideas to screw this country up so bad that it is impossible to understand anything that is written, told or whatever. It is all double speak. How do you decipher all the crap that is put out on a daily basis?.

 

[goldenmojo]

Reed that was very sage advice. Wish I could have been there when you were yelling no at the rangers on the bridge. HaHaHa.

 

[CApicker]

Epic.

Good point Goldenmojo. So an annual flood line is what exactly? I saw evidence that we were well within a possible flood line. Now that said it depends on the year right? Some years the waters never get to flood levels but on others they can be far higher and being that we were well below the bridge that had been washed out I would say that we were definitely under the high flood line
Anyway tomorrow is the court date at Auburn Court House! I have the day off and will go support my buddy that was sited.

Of course we are bringing our Gold bags stuffed full of tools so that we can stop on the way home and make our gas money back!!! I'll post up the results of the hearing and our clean-outs FTW!

Bottom line is no matter the results of tomorrows hearing I and I hope others here on TN will NOT be intimidated! I am a prospector and proud of it.

Talk to you all tomorrow.

 

[57chevy]

Bottom line is, people keep voting the same clowns into office and this is what you get. It doesn't matter what any law, rule, etc., says, they won't stop until everything is closed down and we all live in cities, ala agenda 21, it's all to perserve the planet you know. A new constitution has been adopted (the links say proposed, but this is what all the so called governments are operating under now). There are and have been 10 new states aka federal districts for some time now. And with the pretend governments supposedly running out of money, they will think up any reason to collect as much as they can.

Constitutional Convention | Proposed Constitution for the Newstates of America

Proposed Constitution for the New States of America

 

[TheGoldProspector]

Bottom line is, people keep voting the same clowns into office and this is what you get. It doesn't matter what any law, rule, etc., says, they won't stop until everything is closed down and we all live in cities, ala agenda 21, it's all to perserve the planet you know. A new constitution has been adopted (the links say proposed, but this is what all the so called governments are operating under now). There are and have been 10 new states aka federal districts for some time now. And with the pretend governments supposedly running out of money, they will think up any reason to collect as much as they can. Constitutional Convention | Proposed Constitution for the Newstates of America Proposed Constitution for the New States of America

Very well said, maybe someday soon, we shall sit down over a pitcher or four, and shoot the sky

 

[goldenmojo]

Good point Goldenmojo. So an annual flood line is what exactly? I saw evidence that we were well within a possible flood line. Now that said it depends on the year right? Some years the waters never get to flood levels but on others they can be far higher and being that we were well below the bridge that had been washed out I would say that we were definitely under the high flood line
Anyway tomorrow is the court date at Auburn Court House! I have the day off and will go support my buddy that was sited.

Of course we are bringing our Gold bags stuffed full of tools so that we can stop on the way home and make our gas money back!!! I'll post up the results of the hearing and our clean-outs FTW!

Bottom line is no matter the results of tomorrows hearing I and I hope others here on TN will NOT be intimidated! I am a prospector and proud of it.

Talk to you all tomorrow.

Good Luck Tomorrow. Hope you guys get a fair judge and get some justice. If the verdict goes in your favor as it should I would go back to the exact spot and continue mining and hope a ranger arrives.

 

[AuSomeness]

So, what was the outcome? I'm very curious to know what the latest is!

 

[Asmbandits]

He posted a new thread in the gold prospecting section with the results.