Denny California Gold Miners 1977

[calnatv]

Cool old video of dredging back in 77 on the New River

 

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[timberjack]

I wonder if you could get a usfs official to give you a hand like that today? Wish there was sound or a discription. Wonder what the event was? Anyone?

 

[Oakview2]

Looks to be a rich strike, but what were US Marshalls, Forrest Circus, and the sheriff doing? They seemed to be protecticing, and all the sample bags, perhaps trying to prove the deposit for a patented claim. Perhaps John or someone else can provide some information.

 

[Hoser John]

That was well before we were there in 85-88 as my business partner had claims there you hiked into.. My great bud Chuck Piccard ran a 10" dredge there for over 10-12 years BY HIMSELF. He was removed from his property because he created the most pristine salmon spawning grounds on the whole river. They were immediately withdrawn from mineral entry and he made them DREDGING. Now that is one sick scenario. Cool video of long gone days. I was working the Feather,nelson creek,NF yuba during the late 70s so never got that experience till you posted-thanx much-John PS-almost forgot platinum rich Le Porte

 

[calnatv]

Forest service is there to "validate" the claims by doing mineral examinations. So they can start running people off there claims that are living on them. The Marshalls are there to protect the Forest Service. The crowd watching are the Hippies that took over Denny in the 60's

Bottom line: The forest service were running out the miners for trespassing on federal land

 

[fowledup]

Something$ never change. Clip off the beaver tails, add some fluorescent stripes to the wet suits, throw in a few M-16's and it could be any gold bearing stream USA today!

 

[timberjack]

Seems like if the proved their claim with a mineral exam the miner could pattent the claim at that time?

 

[calnatv]

Seems like if the proved their claim with a mineral exam the miner could pattent the claim at that time?

I'd think the process required time and money. Something these guys didn't have much of. But yes, that's how the process got started. They evicted miners off 40 claims during that time.

 

[Hoser John]

the Trinity River ******ation Plan just started a new game. They just resurveyed the lands by Junction city and moved Wednesday the USGS corner markers(big brass markers) and now say private property is in the river and the cabin ,on private patented property since 1856 is NOW public property. Lawyers,surveyors,archivists all hired for yet another group of miners fight to this new game of BAIT AND SWITCH.....sic sic sic-John--sooooooooooooo much censorship

 

[fowledup]

" They just resurveyed the lands by Junction city and moved Wednesday the USGS corner markers(big brass markers) and now say private property is in the river and the cabin ,on private patented property since 1856 is NOW public "

Which more the likely means they'll burn it to the ground!
The state declares property "historical" all the time how do you do it with the feds?

 

[Hoser John]

NEW GAME called resurvey with their own surveyor to move all the property line on patented property since 1856. From we WILL inform you two weeks ago to they RESTAKED the land and removed the USGS bronze markers denoting corner and witness monuments also. NO NOTICE but what the hoooha that'd be legal and they can't abide by that..sic sic sic
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 11:40 AM
Subject: original land deeds vs. current cadastral surveys


Hi John-I found out some information about original deeds vs. current cadastral surveys. In the event a current survey provides results that are different from a legitimate deed, no final conclusions are made about one being more right than another. Instead, the person or entity holding the deed would submit a claim to whichever agency is responsible for the survey (at no cost), and further research by somebody qualified is performed to determine which document provides the most correct information. Once that decision is made I’m guessing it becomes final (but didn’t hear those specific words). I’m not sure how long the further research takes, but if it’s the federal government, you can count on it not being quick.



No need to do anything on your part because the TRRP survey hasn’t even been finalized at this point, and nobody is formally proposing any actions in terms of the unclassified road that accesses your claims at this time. But if something is proposed you will be notified early on to help develop that proposal

 

[delnorter]

This is a big deal John. Resurveys are not done without significant reason. I sent you a PM.

Mike

 

[calnatv]

John,
Whats the status on the "Trinity River Mineral withdrawal ?" haven't heard much talk lately Question: If the validity of a claim needs to be proven by a mineral exam, does the claim owner flip the bill for that?

 

[Hoser John]

They are in the process of mining the river around Douglas City,Junction City and moving the locations of corner markers planted by the USGS no yaa. Mineral exam is done by them for free in which case you lose every time as noted by the Denny boys in days of old and many recent cases. The last 22 claims being "SEGREGATED" a new word fellas as a newer scam was utilized. They have broken every rule of law but when you have the BLM-FS-Bureau of Rec 3 timing you and all lying playing bait and switch with comment periods,lying in public forums and sneaking around and switching corner markers sure makes it a tough game to play. We've lawyered up(yuck)working with a archivist for old records(I have the 1856 maps/survey) and a surveyor also coming onboard. WAR man and nothing less-John

 

[prospectus]

This was a mining claim validity test. A ranger had been shot at previously there (by one of the men in the crowd!) hence the armed forces. Hippy squatters on mining claims ruined things for all including the actual old-time miners, a sad situation. The nuggets shown were probably made by Bill Meadows, an old sourdough who was an expert at making fake nuggets using a carved potato. Very few claims were found to be valid, it is difficult to find a placer claim that would pass the "prudent man" test. The sources of most of the gold in the New River drainage are lodes found high up at the headwaters, although there were a few down around Denny proper. A prime example of idiots ruining things for the rest of us, the F.S. used the situation to set precedents for removing both squatters and miners from claims that should have been found valid. How do I know all this? My parents were the most egregious squatters of all, living on public land and collecting welfare checks while never doing a lick of mining. The whole area has been removed from mineral entry and is a wilderness, a dumb-ass move by our Government considering all the minerals still in the ground there. A classic case of left and right screwing things up for the average American like Chuck Piccard, who may want to do a bit of mining on public land while following the rules and regulations that are in place to protect said lands from morons. Oh well, such is life. "May the gold bug bite you hard and often".

 

[Clay Diggins]

This was a mining claim validity test. A ranger had been shot at previously there (by one of the men in the crowd!) hence the armed forces. Hippy squatters on mining claims ruined things for all including the actual old-time miners, a sad situation. The nuggets shown were probably made by Bill Meadows, an old sourdough who was an expert at making fake nuggets using a carved potato. Very few claims were found to be valid, it is difficult to find a placer claim that would pass the "prudent man" test. The sources of most of the gold in the New River drainage are lodes found high up at the headwaters, although there were a few down around Denny proper. A prime example of idiots ruining things for the rest of us, the F.S. used the situation to set precedents for removing both squatters and miners from claims that should have been found valid. How do I know all this? My parents were the most egregious squatters of all, living on public land and collecting welfare checks while never doing a lick of mining. The whole area has been removed from mineral entry and is a wilderness, a dumb-ass move by our Government considering all the minerals still in the ground there. A classic case of left and right screwing things up for the average American like Chuck Piccard, who may want to do a bit of mining on public land while following the rules and regulations that are in place to protect said lands from morons. Oh well, such is life. "May the gold bug bite you hard and often".

Welcome to TNet prospectus!

I'm glad to hear from someone who was there. Your account is very accurate. It was the old California deal of "a bunch of people messed up so every miner has to pay" attitude. Collective punishment. It's a good thing that attitude hasn't spread to the rest of the west or there wouldn't be any mining at all.

Every claim owner has the right to discover and define the nature and quality of the valuable minerals found within their claim. Smart miners do that in the normal course of business.

When a claim is challenged the mineral examination could be as simple as presenting your documented proof of a perfected claim. Those miners who just rely on the fact they have gotten good gold in the past get the full work up by the BLM. Somehow they are always surprised when their claim doesn't pass muster. Those that didn't respond at all just automatically lose their claims.

You get out of it what you put in. Cause and effect, Karma, Action and Reaction. Call it what you want but it's the nature of all good things in life that if you don't put the work in to keep a good thing you are likely to lose it.

I encourage claim owners to enjoy their mining rights. Once you understand those rights you might understand that the Mineral Estate Grant is earned. That part is work and it's up to the miner themselves to do the work to prove their claim. Or you could hope the BLM is on your side...

Heavy Pans

 

[ratled]

One thing I can't get out of my head and can't figure out why was the NFS doing the sample and not the BLM?

ratled

 

[ratled]

And another thing, why the US Marshal Service? It's not their cup of tea.....unless the hippies in question were considered federal fugitives. NFS and BLM has their own LEOs why not them? DOI has in house guys too. The local SO should have been the second string on the roster if the in house guys weren't up to the task.

Not making accusations to either side it just look right even on the surface. If there is a good answer, even a bad, could someone point it out.

ratled

 

[ratled]

And another thing, why the US Marshal Service? It's not their cup of tea.....unless the hippies in question were considered federal fugitives. NFS and BLM has their own LEOs why not them? DOI has in house guys too. The local SO should have been the second string on the roster if the in house guys weren't up to the task.

Not making accusations to either side it just look right even on the surface. If there is a good answer, even a bad, could someone point it out.

ratled

 

[russau]

Ratled I don't have a answer to that except in my own opinion it just shows how deep the wacoenviromentalists are into politics and our own gubermint! the wacos helped some / most of these socalled "representatives" into and help keep their office and NOW its payback time for these socalled "representaives" to lean towards the wacos "wants" and NOT the laws that are on the books. now the socalled "representatives" are comeing up with laws that the wacos want on the books DESPITE whats good for America and Her people! I wish all / some of these wacoenviromentalists would sit down and understand what they are doing! BUT that will never happen! all they want to do is rebel against ANYTHING for the thrill of it!