Underwater Sniping.. Tips/Help/Thoughts/

[MadMarshall]

So I have been dedicating the majority of my time these last few months to underwater sniping. And so far I have been pretty successful. But on the other hand it has it's price.. For example the Chafing.. For me this is a huge problem. The fact that I am in the wetsuit for an average of 6hours a day and when I piss it burns so freaking bad.. Just wondering what I can use to stop chafing?


Well some things that I think that help me out with finding gold when underwater sniping.. First thing is mobility (this hold true for all aspects of Prospecting). I never ever pick just one place to spend my day. The only exception is when I am returning to further exploit an area previously prospected.
It is always easier to work your way downriver then it is upriver.. Often I park and then hike upriver for a ways and then get in the water and work my way downriver to the vehicle.

Areas in the river are often not very forgiving for Underwater Sniping. Lots of gravel covering bedrock.. bedrock to deep ect ect. So one has to make use of all opportunity's presented.. Find tools to increase the depth on which you can find and recover gold. I use crowbars and the handdredge to allow me to break and recover the gold..

When you find your gold find the easiest way to exploit it. This never ever involves TWEEZERS.. Snuffer bottles work poorly. Hand Dredge seems to work good though it's kinda a pain to carry around.

And Lastly Gold prospecting can get very Discouraging. Me I just tell myself.. " All it takes is one" Just one crack can pay for your day/ week/ maybe more you just never know.. But I find myself thinking those words a lot when I get in a slump.


Anyway any thoughts or such on how to get more gold Underwater Sniping or anything related would be nice.. I have became quite the fan over the last months..

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

I wear shorties when ever possible which makes it easy to shall I say drain without doing it in the suitsuit. I have short sleeve, elbow length and longsleeve shorties, a full farmer John and 2 full leg, 3/4 sleeve wetsuits I just bought from thrift store. ..

 

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[MadMarshall]

Neotokyo I follow your post and vids have for awhile. Only about a dozen people who do vids on the subject and even less that show constitant results.. I personaly wish you would just do vids of your underwater sniping. Anyway I do not recall seeing your Custom Bottle in your vids...

Kiddominer
Productive? No way to say that for sure unless you dig to bedrock then break it up and find out..

 

[dave wiseman]

Over 35 years ago I bought my wetsuit jackets used from river rafting companies after their season was over.Had to do minor sewing repairs with thread and needles,along with a good can of black neoprene glue.Bought them for five or ten bucks apiece.

 

[MadMarshall]

As far as pissing in the suit.. Believe me when I say I would like to find an alternative.. The longest I spent in my wetsuit was 13hours and the stench of myself was horrid. But on the other hand I have to make due with cheap alternitives for now.. The wetsuit I currently use I will make last the year to save some cash.. Chafing and the stench I will survive...

Higgy I soon will be SSI Certified My final Dive is the First weekend in November in Monterey.. Nitrox and High Altitude diving classes are very soon to follow..

Oakview2 Me dredge? Maybe but not my driving force to many uncertainties to put any stock in that aspect of mining.. As far as a claim is concerned I look when I can but it is not very easy at least not what I am looking for. Plenty of remote areas to play in for now.

 

[NeoTokyo]

Neotokyo I follow your post and vids have for awhile. Only about a dozen people who do vids on the subject and even less that show constitant results.. I personaly wish you would just do vids of your underwater sniping. Anyway I do not recall seeing your Custom Bottle in your vids...

Thanks, I enjoy your video's too, we should get together sometime and destroy some bedrock.

The vids that I had up were from my first season, I had the design then but didn't want to show it in fear of the idea being taken.
I didn't take any video's my second season and I have several good video's from the tail end of this (3rd) season but my computer is slow and these new GoPro Hero3 video's are huge and take forever to convert and edit! lol

My new video's show my Sniper bottle, I have been selling them through a local mining shop up here and by myself so the design is known now.

Its a lot slower going than using the large sniper tube that you have, but its great for cleaning out cracks and pockets when you really need to take your time for the small stuff.

 

[MadMarshall]

On to a different aspect of Underwater Sniping... River Sediment.. I have questions.. one question is why in some places in the rivers are swept clean of any sediment just leaving exposed bedrock? I have seen this in both shallow areas and in deep areas of the river.. Also what is the cause of deep sections of the river? Is it in an area the bedrock may have been weaker and eroded easier? some other event?
Also what do you guys think about gold transportation in the river.. Do you think gold travels for miles and miles from the source in rivers? What do you think about the rivers that they are constantly moving gold? or just major events?

 

[NeoTokyo]

Anytime the flow is strong enough to move overburden, it is strong enough to move gold unless trapped in cracks, roots, boulders or some other stationary object or permanently low pressure area. Gold will continue to move, if not trapped, until it meets the ocean. Of course by that time it is probably micro.

Area's that we swept clean are area's of significant flow velocity, little bedrock traction and smaller overburden.
Flash Floods could also cause this if little overburden is followed at the end.
Many other factors also come into play and its easy to get lost in the scenarios.

Deeper area's are area's that allowed the water and moving overburden to erode the bedrock to a greater extent.
This can be caused by weaker bedrock, cracks, stresses in the bedrock, the way the bedrock is facing, boulders creating a velocity change on the bedrock surface, the flow of overburden and so on. This is assuming that the bedrock were perfectly flat, but bedrock doesn't come like that and some of these holes are just how it was formed.

Caves behind waterfalls are because the bedrock on top is much denser/stronger than what is under it. Over time the water dissolves the bedrock under it making a cave.
A similar thing can happen in rivers, sometimes causing these deeper holes. As water seeps down it can dissolve the softer stone under the top layer creating a cave, sometimes an aquifer under the river. When these caves collapse in the create deeper holes.

Then there is volcanic activity, but that is a whole new can of worms and probably not very applicable to the area that you are working.

 

[Prospector70]

NEVER EVER PEE IN YOUR SUIT. Don't spend the day in a urine filled wetsuit. Zipper mandatory or jump out and do the deed. The urea and other chemicals in urine are murder on your ski,rots the rubber in your suit and stinks to high heaven. Each and every time you bend over your pumping pee into your top and hood and infections abound from there. Do you put your head in a toilet to wash it?? Fill a tub with warm water and add the required amount of"Sink the Stink" available at most dive shops at least once a week. Divers spend a few hours in a wetsuit and miners spend many more hours than they ever do. We do 100sX time the physical motion so a nice thin undersuit is always a great addition. A t shirt and panty hose-yep panty hose-works also if you can take the ribbing as eliminates the rubbing and makes getting in/out of that suit a breeze. The suits at Franks are FANTASTIC as since I bought one in 2006 or so I've never EVER fired up my wetsuit heater since as new technology in closed cell rubbers keep ya toasty. Takes about 8lbs more lead to offset additional buoyancy but to be nice and toasty no big deal. Cheap 99 cent store white cotton gloves under plastic/rubber/whatever gloves keep your hands nice and warm and protected from chafing also. Wet socks keep them feet warm too even in hightop sneakers or good felt soled boots for safety. Hygeine is mandatory due to extreme time underwater,do it right or pay a horrendous price-John

Good GOD man! I never even considered that someone would...
Well there goes the idea of getting a used wetsuit ROFL !

 

[Hefty1]

Good GOD man! I never even considered that someone would...
Well there goes the idea of getting a used wetsuit ROFL !

Never used or borrowed...Always new.....yuk!
And I never let anyone else use mine.

 

[MadMarshall]

Neo
Anytime the flow is strong enough to move overburden, it is strong enough to move gold unless trapped in cracks, roots, boulders or some other stationary object or permanently low pressure area. Gold will continue to move, if not trapped, until it meets the ocean. Of course by that time it is probably micro.

alright but how does it relate to gold being deposited in the river? It is my thought that gold/heavies are not moved constantly. Nor do they travel far from the original deposit. even during above average flows not quite flood I think the gold is not moving very far if at all.. I tend to think that gold moves only during an intial surge of water during an extreme event. This would somewhat explain why gold is not more evenly distributed thru out the river. Gold is heavy and even dust will sink once you create any kind of disturbance in the water.. So I think it is safe to believe that as soon as the gold is moving it's also falling .. Now if this is the case and flood events and such are rare so this would make the transportation of gold pretty minimal in river I think. Even over a hundred years I do not think the gold as moved very far from where it was then! Even the cracks I think help support this. I mean once the surge of the river taken place the gold picked up and then immediately dropped off depending on the force. Then the gold is slowly settling and working it's way down.

Now all this in relation to a possible source? Maybe research in floods over a length of time in an area can help one determine possible distance of the source?

 

[NeoTokyo]

I've never found a source yet, but when I see really coarse gold I get excited.
I have 2 area's where I find really coarse gold and then it gets smooth again once I go about 100' above that area.

Both area's have a heavy mining history so I can only assume that someone else already found the lode source and that I am just cleaning up the scraps.

Gold gets beaten pretty quickly, if you find very coarse gold then I would start looking around for a possible source.

 

[MadMarshall]

Neither have I .. I suppose there are a many different kinds of possible sources: a whole nother topic. But often I find that pay areas tend to be somewhat defined. Not only in the type of gold but in it's boundries so to speak.. Now generally these pay zones are where I find payable gold. A lot of my underwater sniping areas are directly dictated by areas that (bedrock)paid above water. Now how I think gold moves in the river directly effects my judgement when prospecting.. Also now when cracking bedrock I am constantly trying to put some kind of time frame on the gold I am finding in that crack.. Is the crack hardpack/loose gravel/or clay ..is gold visible on the top of the crack.. does all the gold sit withen the first inch or two or does it have an constant distribution to bottom. Is it new gold or has it been there forever?

 

[MadMarshall]

well I was kinda hoping to spark a discussion and find out what others think and what they have seen from their own experiences in regards to gold moving/and depositing in the river. anyway ...

 

[Jeff95531]

Well Victor, all I've done is look longingly at your gold and videos, so I don't have much to offer. I have been staring into deep holes with my mask but even when the water is at an all time low, it's just outta reach. The suction gun will be my new best friend...after I build one that is.

 

[fowledup]

If you get yourself a new suit save the old one. Take the old suit and cut out a bunch of oval shaped patches 6" x 9" for the knees and top of the thighs of your new suit. Oval shape, no rectangles or square corners is the key to having the patches stay adhered. There is a product called Fix All it is a clear adhesive that comes in a white tube with blue lettering - great stuff fixes anything! For knee pad placement - sit down in a chair, hold pad up to knee so that the top of the pad is around the top of your knee slightly higher, but not covering it. If you cover the knee it will tire out your legs faster and also the patch wont last as long as it is always getting pulled on.

 

[EriktheProspector]

Howdy prospectors, and MadMarshall!

It was great running into you this past Sunday Victor! You're a heck of a nice guy, and I'll invite you to join me for some goldventures some time. It was great talking to you and I feel like I could talk to you for hours.

My buddy sniped with me a day, and missed easy gold that I later saw easily, including a nice picker. Why did he miss it? Fogged goggles.. SPIT IN your goggles, rub it around, and rinse it out gently. This will act as an anti-fog. Now you can SEE the gold!

basic tools: Mask, snuffer bottle, mining hammer. Period.

I also bring a hammer, crowbar, specialized sniping snuffer, wetsuit, scraping tools, dive light, and an abalone bag I fill with rocks as a weight-belt, but none of this is essential. You'd be surprised how much gold you can get with just those three tools.

What I've learned sniping to get better gold

1) Take your time to read the surrounding geology, and the river, the flood stages, gold traps, etc.
2) Look for course bedrock, smooth bedrock usually does not trap gold
3) Look for hardpack cobbles.

4) If you're in the clay you're on the pay! If you're on the ash, you're in the cash! (sometimes, but they're a good sign)

I highly recommend processing entire crevices if possible, but only if you're seeing gold throughout. There may be ounces of micron gold within clay and gray ash layers from what I've seen, but you must process all of this at a later time, and with specialized tools for the job. Also needed will be the right suction gun and scrapers to clean out such crevices.

5) You're a surgeon! Gold may be anywhere. Work slow. Gold may sit on top of the hard pack cobbles, or at the very very bottom. Work methodically. It is surprisingly easy to miss gold if you're reckless and swinging wildly. Sniping a crevice, to me, feels like a delicate surgery. Each crevice and rock must be carefully opened or extracted using the correct tool, amount of energy, and angle of attack. Also, if you get your face closer to the crevice you might see gold you didn't know was there.

6) Work and think outside the box and you'll get more gold. Sometimes gold is very accessible but no one thought to look there..


These are the main tenants I've learned this summer through my sniping. My best crevice so far I've found was along a river bank in 40 ft. of water. The crevice was only visible because I fanned away the thick moss to reveal it. The small hairline crack caught my interest and was only about a foot long. One swing with the hammer on the crowbar and it opened right up. At the bottom of the split was the bottom of the fissure, measuring one inch by about one foot. It was the easiest sniping ever once I revealed the crack. Sitting there was a thick line of black sand, filled with some meaty pickers, nice flakes, and plenty of fines. I probably got a few grams from it. Some of my other best crevices were revealed through fanning or scraping moss.

Best of luck to y'all!

E the P

p.s. Here's some of my summer sniping. Enjoy!

 

[TheGoldProspector]

I Love the info E the P

 

[MadMarshall]

Eric it was nice meeting you.. But on another note it is note I can not say I totally agree with you.

Lets start at the beginning.

1) You must find the general gold path by using the fundamentals (inside bend, reading river during flood stage).

How much Gold dictates the Gold path? I do not believe in gold paths.. More pockets so to speak..

2) Check course bedrock, smooth bedrock usually does not trap gold.

I suspect smooth bedrock was rough and jagged at one time..


3) Look for hardpack cobbles. These are the richer pockets, whether newer or older with clay and volcanic layers, look for hardpacked cobbles.
4) If you're in the clay you're on the pay! If you're on the ash, you're in the cash! As I say.. I highly recommend processing entire crevices if possible. There may be ounces of micron gold within clay and gray ash layers from what I've seen, but you must process all of this at a later time, and the right suction gun will be needed for the job.

Both 3 and 4 I suspect fall under the same.. Common thinking among many.. Not me .. those thoughts do me as much good as looking on the inside bends ect ect.. The best indicator for payable gold is GOLD. The art of reading gold .

5) You're a surgeon! Gold may be anywhere. Work slow. Gold may sit on top of the hard pack cobbles, or at the very very bottom. I highly recommend working slowly as it is surprisingly easy to miss gold if you're reckless and swinging wildly. Sniping a crevice, to me, is like a delicate surgery. Each crevice and rock must be carefully opened or extracted using the correct tool, amount of energy, and angle of attack. Also, don't blow material around. Get your face closer to the crevice and sometimes you'll see gold you didn't know was there.

Well this may be a matter of preference.. But let it be said that finding gold is of very little concern to me.. I want PAYABLE GOLD.. and with that in mind ..Sniping for me is like demolition.. I do not wish to dick around and spend an hour for a few flakes.. I am a firm believer of finding the gold Exploiting it as quickly as possible.

Now a days people definitions vary greatly on what is good gold and what dictates finding good gold.. Now I can not speak for everyone else but for myself payable gold is 2 pennyweight a day and more.. anything less then that doesn't really constitute my time.. Now when I am cracking bedrock or underwater sniping more often then not I am doing roughly about 20 pans of material a day. Anyway overall it has been my experience that the best indicator for payable gold is gold ..

Anyway Erik gold is always bring different thoughts and opinions from prospectors and contradicting us all!!

 

[IMPDLN]

Interesting thread with some good info. I'd like to add a tidbit here on the subject of how far gold might travel. The conversation above seems to indicate you guys are of the opinion that the gold is entering the system without being encased in host rock, therefore you have the impression that course unmolested gold hasn't traveled far.....if I understand your posts correctly. However a different opinion might be that gold entering the system encased in host rock might travel for many miles until the host rock is crushed or eroded away from the gold. Therefore even course unmolested gold might have traveled a far piece of a distance and still be pristine when found.

Sometimes the source is in the system or river channel itself. The source could be covered with overburden with no visible source at the surface or out of the channel. During a spring or major flood the overburden could be stripped allowing erosion of the source or vein. As the water slows the source could easily be covered back up with overburden. A proper flood can certainly move huge boulders bigger than cars. Huge boulders will certainly smash and mutilate even bedrock. They can be rather destructive.

Another scenario could be a source from a side canyon along a steep wall. It could be a that the gold enrichment happens when freeze and thaw events cause separation of rocks from a cliff face or some similar steep area where small rich veins could exist in the fractured rock without being obvious by sight.

I myself have been witness to such an event in the Lees Ferry region of the Colorado River and also along the North Fork American River. Large erosion events can happen at anytime in steep canyons especially. These types of events are similar to a glacier calving.....not sure about spelling here....

My point is that gold can come from many places and be deposited many different ways. The fact is specific gravity and gravity in general guarantees it will most assuredly continue a downward trend until it can travel down no more. Just my 2 cents, Dennis

 

[Hoser John]

Never ever spit in your mask. You are introducing a absolute huge amount of nasty germs know to man,the other end is cleaner biologically. You get infections around you nose and elsewhere on your face. 1 tiny bb of toothpaste smeared around keeps it crystal clear,minty fresh and kills germs also. Divers spend a hour or 2 underwater but snipers spend all day if serious. We snipe days,weeks,months solid and 99% of divers just a vacation thing for a few hours per decompression tables. When gold goes from smooth to rough time to get out of that water,break out the detector and go looking especially in california,actually all over as insitu lode feedins are a sweeeeet find-John