We all need to spread this far and wide

[Oakview2]

It needs to be seen by all miners, John Q pulbic. It exposes these green groups for exactly what they are. TV, radio, facebook, blogs, chatrooms whatever.

On December 12th the Western Mining Alliance received the
final report on the Department of Interior’s investigation into the
activities of Dr. Charles Alpers of the US Geological Survey.
In response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) filed by
the WMA, and a follow on request for an official investigation the
Department of Interior published the results of their investigation.
Dr. Charles Alpers, of the US Geological Survey (USGS) was
the lead mercury researcher for the water quality section of the
2011 Suction Dredging Environmental Impact Report (EIR). He
was responsible for collecting the data, and preparing the analysis
for the California Suction Dredging Environmental Impact Report
which concluded suction dredges were linked to high
methylmercury levels in wildlife.
He further stated there was only one year of testing data to
rely on.
In 2013 the WMA submitted a FOIA requesting all data
related to sampling of mercury on the South Yuba River, the same
location the suction dredge study took place. The information we
received proved over five years of data existed from research
funded by the Bureau of Land Management, and conducted by –
Dr. Charles Alpers.
When we evaluated all of the data we found there was natural
variability from year to year in mercury levels in wildlife, and the
levels of mercury in insects appeared to be directly linked to the
size of the spring flood. When we viewed all of the data there was
no linkage between mercury levels and dredging activity which
was in direct contradiction to Dr. Alpers’ findings.
The WMA submitted a request for an official investigation
alleging scientific misconduct over the withholding of the data set.
We met with the Department of Interior in June and discussed our
concerns.
Last week the Department of Interior provided us with their
report and it provides some stunning revelations.
The lead mercury researcher on the suction dredging EIR was
also a donor and member of The Sierra Fund. The Sierra Fund is
the organization which claims responsibility for developing the
legislation which banned suction dredging. They have publically
admitted they are opposed to suction dredging and they claimed
credit for writing the legislation which resulted in SB 670, the initial dredging ban.

 

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[goldenIrishman]

Me thinks we hast a wolf in sheeps clothing amoungst us lads! If not a wolf then someone in a "green" coat.

Do you HONESTLY think that miners are to blame for all the problems in California? Miners have done more to remove toxins from that states waterways than ANY environmental group has to date and they do it without any tax dollars! Let's see here,,, FREE Mercury removal or pay MILLIONS of tax dollars to have much less of it removed from our waterways? You decide! Please get your facts straight before you start spouting streams of worthless rhetoric condemning those that know what they're talking about! Miners in the old days made a mess but the modern miners are cleaning up as much of that mess as we can. DO NOT judge us as a whole by the actions of a few.

And when scientists present data that is intentionally skewed to fit the agendas of those that are paying them, then they are not TRUE scientists at all. A scientific fact is the same for EVERYONE. Just because it doesn't happen to advance the agenda of some group does not make it any less true. By not presenting ALL of the data, decisions were made that have kept dredging miners out of the water for years now. Just imagine how much more mercury could have been removed in those years and then try to tell us that we are wrong to want HONEST SCIENCE instead of fairy tales from someones bought lab rat.

 

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[Molemann]

Any links you can share to back up your post?

 

[Prospector70]

Go Mining Rights! Nothing like a behind closed doors scam. I just feel like if enough "digging" (pun intended) were done we would find lined pockets all the way up the chain.

Keep givin' em hell boys!

 

[Prospector70]

Any links you can share to back up your post?

Who are you even talking to?
This is a big boy's discussion. If you can't read, no one is going to hold your hand.
Do your own research. You'll learn more.

Will make sure all the prospecting and bike stores in my area have this into posted on their windows. Great work team awesome!

 

[Prospector70]

Huh? The scientists are attacking us?

The report correctly pointed out that in that specific area, dredging releases as much human-introduced mercury into the waterways as rain does. That means the mercury added to the environment from human activities over the past 130 years is not being sequestered, and dredging doubles the rate at which human-introduced mercury is getting into the water.

Stating a basic fact is not "attacking us."

Which would you rather have in your drinking water: one cup of **** or two?

No, actually it didn't. The data sample is bigger than they let out. Did you even read the newsletter? No, I thought not.

PS I'm printing this out onto about 10 reams of paper and will hand distribute to everyone I meet. PAPER, from the trees.

 

[minerrick]

"The progressives" being "all of the world's scientists." Do you really believe you have the right to poison the water people must drink to live? Seriously?

This is your "MIner's Public Health Tip Of The Day" Get your flu shot! The FDA has done the science, and it is for your own benefit: Flu vaccine contains 25,000 times more mercury than is legally allowed in drinking water - NaturalNews.com

Spoiler Alert: Flu vaccine contains 25,000 times more mercury than is legally allowed in drinking water....... you may want to get an extra shot for me......

 

[goldenIrishman]

There are links all over the gold mining forum Molemann. I personally don't bookmark every single page I go to and so I don't have them right at hand. If you want something to start with, go the the post on the WMA News letter. Many of the articles there have links you can go check out.

 

[goldenIrishman]

This is your "MIner's Public Health Tip Of The Day" Get your flu shot! The FDA has done the science, and it is for your own benefit: Flu vaccine contains 25,000 times more mercury than is legally allowed in drinking water - NaturalNews.com

Spoiler Alert: Flu vaccine contains 25,000 times more mercury than is legally allowed in drinking water....... you may want to get an extra shot for me......

TOOOO SHAYYYYYY!!!!! Very good point there minerick! It never ceases to amaze me when the feds act in the "public interest". The people of this country are starting at long last to wake up. When the people are fully awake and aware as to what has been going on for many years, the government types are going to have to figure out how to deal with "The SECOND American revolution" in a way that keeps their necks out of a noose. In the meantime, they would do well to remember the second and third lines of my signature.

 

[fowledup]

Huh? The scientists are attacking us?

Only the bought and paid for ones working for extremist organizations hell bent on taking away your rights!

The report correctly pointed out that in that specific area, dredging releases as much human-introduced mercury into the waterways as rain does. That means the mercury added to the environment from human activities over the past 130 years is not being sequestered, and dredging doubles the rate at which human-introduced mercury is getting into the water.

There is nothing in the report that was "correctly pointed out", based on the simple fact alone that he admits to omiting data from the study completely trashes the validity of the entire report, the report and study should be permantely stricken from record. The only reason they are not doing anything about the truth of the findings of the investigation is it would be an admission of guilt and government fraud and would only serve to open up further floodgates for individuals who've been harmed by the dredge moratorium to seek further damages once that litigation gets rolling!
As far as one dredge doing as much disturbing and mobilizing of Mercury to an entire watershed as one rain storm that is absolutely preposterous and ridiculous to any free thinking individual with an oz. of common sense. Lets put what you've swallowed hook line and sinker into perspective;

Lets say a watershed is a football field, and the bad landscapers spread to much fertilizer (mercury) across the field. Now for the purpose and scope of my corny little analogy we'll say the rain is represented by the fields sprinkler system and a miner dredging is a landscaper holding a squirt gun on the fifty yard line (got to factor in the size perspective comaparison as well). Lets throw in some scrubbing disturbance for good measure- the landscaper also has a small three tined hand rake he's using to scrape away some weeds at his feet on the fifty yard line. What will spread and disturb more fertilizer? The field sprinkler system that covers the entire field (watershed) with thousands of times more hydraulic action and volume, or one squirt gun and a small hand rake directed at a fixed point on the fifty yard line that may or may not have gotten any fertilizer in that particular spot to begin with.

 

[Desertphile]

I love seeing hysterical conspiracy mongers as much as the next guy, but please look at what some of you are writing. Good gods!

The mercury in the area came from gold miners: it did not magically appear along the rivers and stream beds by an act of the gods. The burning of coal, which dumps mercury, spreads that mercury everywhere down wind---- not along streams, which is one of the many reasons why we know where the mercury came from: miners.

Dredging in some areas removes some of the sequestered mercury into the water: as much as rain does.

The land we mine belongs to everyone, not just us miners; the water we use belongs to everyone, not just us miners. When we work a mine, we are doing so on land that belongs to everyone: we do not have the right to poison the water.

Why is that not obvious?

Scientists merely stated the facts: they did not make any political opinions on the subject; they did not further any sinister Oh My Gods There's A Black Man In The White House agenda. The scientists merely pointed out the fact that everyone's properly (water) is being poisoned by some of us miners.

If you object about what the scientists have stated, write a paper on the subject and submit it to a science journal for peer review and publication: correct the flaws you believe the scientists made.

Sheeeish. And people call *ME* paranoid.... :-)

 

[Prospector70]

I love seeing hysterical conspiracy mongers as much as the next guy, but please look at what some of you are writing. Good gods!

The mercury in the area came from gold miners: it did not magically appear along the rivers and stream beds by an act of the gods. The burning of coal, which dumps mercury, spreads that mercury everywhere down wind---- not along streams, which is one of the many reasons why we know where the mercury came from: miners.

Dredging in some areas removes some of the sequestered mercury into the water: as much as rain does.

The land we mine belongs to everyone, not just us miners; the water we use belongs to everyone, not just us miners. When we work a mine, we are doing so on land that belongs to everyone: we do not have the right to poison the water.

Why is that not obvious?

Scientists merely stated the facts: they did not make any political opinions on the subject; they did not further any sinister Oh My Gods There's A Black Man In The White House agenda. The scientists merely pointed out the fact that everyone's properly (water) is being poisoned by some of us miners.

If you object about what the scientists have stated, write a paper on the subject and submit it to a science journal for peer review and publication: correct the flaws you believe the scientists made.

Sheeeish. And people call *ME* paranoid.... :-)

Yeah all you conspiracy hate mongers!

"scientists merely state the facts" Cough global warming cough cough
How much mercury are you blowing around with your dry washer? Hmm I better do a STUDY! It will be reaaaal scientific. I promise.
Because it's my air too.

I also don't appreciate your subtle racial accusation there either.

 

[Lanny in AB]

I love seeing hysterical conspiracy mongers as much as the next guy, but please look at what some of you are writing. Good gods!

The mercury in the area came from gold miners: it did not magically appear along the rivers and stream beds by an act of the gods. The burning of coal, which dumps mercury, spreads that mercury everywhere down wind---- not along streams, which is one of the many reasons why we know where the mercury came from: miners.

Dredging in some areas removes some of the sequestered mercury into the water: as much as rain does.

The land we mine belongs to everyone, not just us miners; the water we use belongs to everyone, not just us miners. When we work a mine, we are doing so on land that belongs to everyone: we do not have the right to poison the water.

Why is that not obvious?

Scientists merely stated the facts: they did not make any political opinions on the subject; they did not further any sinister Oh My Gods There's A Black Man In The White House agenda. The scientists merely pointed out the fact that everyone's properly (water) is being poisoned by some of us miners.

If you object about what the scientists have stated, write a paper on the subject and submit it to a science journal for peer review and publication: correct the flaws you believe the scientists made.

Sheeeish. And people call *ME* paranoid.... :-)

I've mined several streams where there was abundant mercury and none of it came from miners.

It's what's called "elemental mercury" meaning it occurs naturally from cinnabar deposits.

I'm not from California, so I'll leave it to California locals to respond, but is it possible there's any elemental mercury naturally occurring in your watersheds?

I just can't believe all of the mercury in the streams came from mining.

Just a question for clarification.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[Goldwasher]

What was that girls name that was here claiming to be a miner and treasure hunter That flamed and trolled posts....and would read her own links?? Haven't seen her post for a while......the one that had the lady pirate avatar? I still don't understand how people have a link don't read it all or understand it...and try to bash everyone else who actually gets it.

 

[minerrick]

If you object about what the scientists have stated, write a paper on the subject and submit it to a science journal for peer review and publication: correct the flaws you believe the scientists made.

Sheeeish. And people call *ME* paranoid.... :-)

Desertphile- go to the WMA homepage and download the powerpoint presentation that the WMA did in 2011 and read Hoser John's extensively documented letters to the DFG on the subject. Those who say the fraud clearly pointed out that the findings in Humbug creek were suspect. The study was flawed in dozens of ways (including the fact that they were collecting the mercury laden water from a tub that worked all day re-circulating the same water, from working on the side of the river- not using a dredge-- don't know how grammatically correct that was.... but who's watching anyway). Their study was several orders of magnitude off- whoever did the number crunching was probably as prolific at math as I am. Only THEY got paid the big bucks for THEIR incompetence (its good money if you can get it).

It was clearly a railroad job. Hoser John, WMA and dozens of other miner's spotted it as soon as their report was published. Go read the peer reviews- they talk about the samples from the "tubs"- how many "tubs" do you use on your dredge? The difference is NOW is the DOI sent WMA a letter telling them that DOI recognized the "irregularities" and potential conflict of interest, but didn't think it was a problem.

My guess is SF and everyone else thought the miners were a bunch of idiots who were so busy fighting with themselves that they would have the ability to coalesce long enough to uncover the fraud and wouldn't recognize it or even better yet....... DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT..... if the fraudsters were caught. I guess we will see what gets "DONE" by the miners, now that everything is out in the open. Many years ago during the era of the Western Mining Association, apparently the miners were more politically motivated and aggressive and apparently as the old WMA went away, the miners became a much easier target. Maybe Hoser John can expound on this point better than I, as I wasn't around then.

I think the miners ought to find a way to get on to the $7500 an oz mercury gravy train. I'm not mad, I just think we are missing a huge opportunity that the SF has apparently opened up. We've got the claims, we've got the equipment, all we have to do is line up and tell the state that we want in on the gravy train.

 

[gold nuggets]

Let me see, 1 + 1 still equals 2, so SB670 was based on the potential threat of mercury danger to humans, if that is proven to be false by any means, that should by all ethics and integrity be repealed. And the people responsible charged and prosecuted in a court of law.


That's the way it should be ScottC.....but in the real world, the Sierra Fund will find some way to discredit Dr. Alpers and throw him under the bus, essentially clearing themselves of any wrong-doing. Then they will look for another enviroPATSY to "not mention" something else in a different study to try and stop dredgers from mining.....the lawmakers will see the opportunity to make more money and we end up playing the "see you in court" game....again......and again....

 

[Oakview2]

"Huh? The scientists are attacking us?

The report correctly pointed out that in that specific area, dredging releases as much human-introduced mercury into the waterways as rain does. That means the mercury added to the environment from human activities over the past 130 years is not being sequestered, and dredging doubles the rate at which human-introduced mercury is getting into the water.

Stating a basic fact is not "attacking us."

Which would you rather have in your drinking water: one cup of **** or two? "






What turnip truck did you fall off of. There are large deposits of cinibar, elemental mercury in Northern California, including one rather large one on the watershed above the San Francisco Bay. A stock Keene dredge will recover over 93% of all mercury and gold amalagum in comes in contact. We have done this for over 50 years for FREE. These scumbuckets from the SF have bilked the government out of millions of dollars and have fallen miserably short of their promised recovery rates. But they are getting fat on the gold they sell, the agrgate they sell. This is the same group that sued the Nevada Irrigation District to stop them from using the same Cutter Head Dredge they are now saying is a life safer. Trying to recover mercury with a cutter head like they are using, is akin to picking up raw egss with a chainsaw. They sell the USG their pseudo expert, a board member of the SF to try and change the outcome of the EIR. Nope nothing wrong with that, couldn't be a conflict, keep us out of the water and make their Mercury Remediaton Farce a MONOPOLY. I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND ONE CASE OF MERCURY POSIONING IN CALIFORNIA, YOU WON'T FIND IT, CAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED. i see you are in a sunny state, stay in the shade.

 

[fowledup]

Dead nuts on target, Rick!

Desertphile- These people and organizations you support and defend ARE the conspirators and the fear mongers spreading false information! These folks in the mining community are concerned taxpaying citizens debunking, exposing, and calling them out on their BS! You read the same report I did, they admit and acknowledge their wrong doing's. What do you not get? They aren't out to save your drinking water, they are out to fleece your wallet. Through manipulation of the law, scientific study, and political pull they are attempting to kill an entire industry. They aren't bringing any new ideas, solutions, or technology to the table. In fact they are using the same technology and processes we have used for years. The very same technology they have supported the demise of. What do they offer that warrants them being the sole authority and operator of the removal of mercury in our waterways? It sure ain't experience, they have zero practical hands on experience. It ain't cause they can do it chaper then we can. 9 million dollars and counting for 150lbs of Mercury doesn't sound like a very cost effective bargin for a bankrupt state or a very effecient use of state dollars. What's wrong with making mercury a supplemental income source and incentive of the mining industry at a fraction of the cost. Why are we not trying to preserve an industry that provides a living for a couple thousand residents in this state. If Mercury removal is what we're truly after lets do it the most efficient and effective way possible. Lets utilize proven technology, an existing labor pool, equipment, and experience currently available and ready to work across the entire state. Instead of forcing taxpayers to pay for the work lets pay taxpayers to do the work. I don't believe anyone here is against clean water or cleaning up the environment. We're just not going to be duped or have our lively hoods taken away in the process.

 

[minerrick]

By gosh, this is as good as any time for me to introduce one of my FAVORITE George Carlin skits. Be forewarned, if your ears curl when you hear rather graphic swear words, do not view this video. But, by god, George GOT IT. He GOT IT a long time before the rest of us, and of course, there are some out there THAT STILL DON'T GET IT. Enjoy some classic George:

 

[goldenIrishman]

Let's face it here guys... you can line the facts up, have data to back them up and there are still going to be those that think the sky is pink. Certain individuals need to pull off the rose colored glasses and look at the world as it really is.

These enviro-corps are NOT in it for the benefit of their fellow humans. sure, they MIGHT have started out that way, but once they saw how much money could be made by bilking the government out of tax payer dollars doing things for the public was out the door. Nothing but GREED has motivated these groups since they won their first cases against the Forest Service.

Now we come up to the current day and these guys have been caught and their deception in now in the light. THIS is where we find out if our court system is still "of the people" or if they have been bought off by the "Big Green Money Machine". With the fact that the data used to push SB670 through has been found to be fraudulent AND incomplete, the ban on dredging should be lifted right away and those that supplied (or in this case didn't supply) the data jailed for fraud.

EDIT: Why I'm thinking of it, since this data set was found to be misleading as well as incomplete, maybe it would be a good idea for the government to go back and review all the cases where these groups supplied the data that was used to form policy. I'm thinking a class action law suite against the EnviroCorps is looking better and better all the time. If nothing else get the money they've stolen from the tax payers back! (And maybe a tad bit of interest for good measure)

 

[delnorter]

Good post Lanny. yes, here in the northwest corner of California there are extensive cinnabar deposits within the Smith River drainage. Some of them having been commercially mined in the distant past. I was told by a local biologist, one natural deposit, on a creek flowing into the Smith River, was one of the richest he'd seen. It was actually leaching so heavily into the creek the Forest service let out a private contract to cover it up.

For what it's worth, it is my understanding, the Smith River is one of, if not the, most pristine rivers in the country.

Happy New Years to all,
Mike