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Thread: We still have a lot of resistance working against us

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  1. #31

    Mar 2013
    Bounty Hunter
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    We are still trying at the taxpayers expense, to turn our orange rivers and streams back to normal, All our water supplys have to be filtered and chemically neutrialize from the acids and metals in the water, leaking from the old mines. In some rare areas good water still exist but hard to find.. However we need a billion taxpayers dollars to clean up the plutonium and urainum buried along the river that is leaking into the water table that feed the water supply the whole way from PA down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico, that was left over from private mining and industry concerns. I can understand why there are agencies like the EPA and Greenies, they can save the taxpayers much money and save people from the outrageous cancer rates like around those areas. And the rivers in Ohio have not caught fire all the time like they did. Needless to say I have mixed feelings about the things Enviorment people do sometimes. I guess That is what the courts are for. Come east to see for yourself

  2. #32
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
    3,470
    10081 times
    Prospecting
    I'm not sure what your writing about kayakpat. You implicate plutonium and urainum (sp?) pollution in the east with mining? There are no plutonium or uranium mines there. If you have pollution problems from plutonium and uranium waste it certainly has nothing to do with mining.

    There are potential issues with acid mine drainage but those deposits produced acids long before they were mined. Acid water is the natural state around highly mineralized zones whether they are mined or not. Blaming miners for natural chemistry isn't going to change that fact.

    I lived in New York. There were big problems with water pollution there but it was all the result of dumping of industrial waste - not mining. Humans that foul their environment for profit and then point fingers at others are pretty low in my estimation. There is some mining related pollution by large corporations in this country but almost all of that is due to greed and avarice - not normal mining by small miners.

    I think mercury pollution in the west is more about deflecting blame for the massive dumping of phenols, MTBE and other toxic chemicals. These pollutants have been sanctioned by governments to help boost taxes and fees from the profits generated by substandard practices. To this day it is possible to pay for a permit to dump those pollutants into the environment. Money talks. A lot more people are sickened by those "legal" pollutant sources than mine waste or mercury ever did.

    Miners need to keep their mining clean, that's a given. Blaming the current state of the Eastern states water supply on mining is ignoring the facts of the source and types of pollutants found in those tainted waters.

    Heavy Pans

  3. #33
    us
    fowledup

    Jul 2013
    Northern California
    Whites GMT V/SAT
    2,757
    5166 times
    Prospecting
    What's going on out west with mining has little to do with what today's miners are doing, or about anything that removing miners from the equation will solve. It's about making money, and removing an obstacle that is keeping them from doing so. We are told there is a problem and they know how to fix it. However....when you can prove unequivocally that the problem is not as it seems, that people aren't being hurt, that the problem can be solved for less money using better technology- and no one that should, will listen or investigate it....... well then that's not the real problem is it?
    Last edited by fowledup; Jan 18, 2015 at 03:29 PM.
    Folks may not remember the words of what you said but they dang sure will remember how you made them feel!

  4. #34

    Mar 2013
    Bounty Hunter
    557
    288 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    We had a large company Babcock and Wilcox, who used uranium and plutonium for military, when no one was looking they buried waste from their use and alot of these material in long trenches. The ground and radioactive stuff have leeched into the surrounding ground and down into the abandoned coal mines filled with water and mine waste and spread all thru the area and into the river. Big Big Mess

  5. #35
    us
    FIRE...Financially Independent Retired Early. Poor but free!

    Feb 2013
    Deep in the redwoods of the TRUE Northern CA
    Teknetics Alpha 2000
    2,624
    4091 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by kayakpat View Post
    We had a large company Babcock and Wilcox, who used uranium and plutonium for military, when no one was looking they buried waste from their use and alot of these material in long trenches. The ground and radioactive stuff have leeched into the surrounding ground and down into the abandoned coal mines filled with water and mine waste and spread all thru the area and into the river. Big Big Mess
    I admit I am not familiar with the incidents you speak of. What I do know is no matter what you do or where you go, the world is filled with bad people who do bad things. They are not the majority however. If what you state is true, the EPA can sue and recover superfund reclamation costs and that's how it should be.

    I can also state ALL of the prospectors that I know have a deep respect for the environment, property, claims, land usage and land restoration and leave nothing behind but footprints. When you see acts by others that do not conform to this line of thinking, their actions are criminal and should be reported and handled as such.

    BTW, welcome and kudos to you for joining, voicing your opinion and keeping an open mind. That's how we operate here.
    Jeff
    Last edited by Jeff95531; Jan 19, 2015 at 11:06 AM.
    KevinInColorado likes this.
    We don't fight for gain. We fight for what is rightfully ours.

    Just another supporter of Land Matters http://www.mylandmatters.org/ The one stop place for mining matters on public lands!

    CA prospectors check here http://www.mylandmatters.org/Donate/Gift1.html

    A recent study found that there are just too many studies being done.

  6. #36
    us
    This isn't a hobby! It's hard work!

    Feb 2013
    Golden Valley Arid-Zona
    Fisher / Gold Bug AND the MK-VII eyeballs
    3,465
    6154 times
    Prospecting/Mining and protecting our rights to do so.
    Yup! We're all glad to see different points of views here. All we ask for the most part is that you be able to back your statements up with facts and be polite.. It's good to be passionate about things as long as you take the time to find out the truth and not allow yourself to be led by everything you see and read in the media.

    There is no reason that mining and being "green" can't go hand in hand. In most cases it does and it works very well.
    http://www.mylandmatters.org/
    The one stop place for mining matters on public lands!

    "Those that make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" John F. Kennedy

    When I joined the Army I took an oath to protect this country from enemies both foreign and domestic. To the best of my knowledge I've never been relieved of that oath and will continue to follow it to the best of my ability.

  7. #37

    Mar 2013
    Bounty Hunter
    557
    288 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    ii would like to get a dredge, but until they figure this out, no use investing in one. good luck with the fight, dredging looks like the way to go as the old timers could not.

  8. #38

    Nov 2013
    Bazooka Gold Trap 48", Keene A51 sluices and a Number 2 Shovel baby!
    833
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    WELP.


  9. #39

    Nov 2013
    Bazooka Gold Trap 48", Keene A51 sluices and a Number 2 Shovel baby!
    833
    1254 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by kayakpat View Post
    We are still trying at the taxpayers expense, to turn our orange rivers and streams back to normal, All our water supplys have to be filtered and chemically neutrialize from the acids and metals in the water, leaking from the old mines. In some rare areas good water still exist but hard to find.. However we need a billion taxpayers dollars to clean up the plutonium and urainum buried along the river that is leaking into the water table that feed the water supply the whole way from PA down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico, that was left over from private mining and industry concerns. I can understand why there are agencies like the EPA and Greenies, they can save the taxpayers much money and save people from the outrageous cancer rates like around those areas. And the rivers in Ohio have not caught fire all the time like they did. Needless to say I have mixed feelings about the things Enviorment people do sometimes. I guess That is what the courts are for. Come east to see for yourself
    I did quite a bit of growing up back east. Too frequently they would have chemical leaks from the umpteen big chemical companies in the area (Union Carbide, DOW, ETC.) or a train derailment that causes residents to "shelter indoors" where you are to seal off rooms and put wet towels under the doors.
    I can't recall ever sheltering in place from a mine leak.

  10. #40
    us
    Aug 2014
    Orange County, CA
    Bounty Hunter
    108
    83 times
    Prospecting
    From an environmental stand point I see dredging as a good thing. Mercury for example is 13.6 times heavier then water. So it will stay in the pan or the sluice.

    Down side that I can see is how do we miners get rid of the mercury we recover in a legal manner. I think in the long run it would help not hurt. I also think the state should A) Reward us for cleaning up the environment and B) Put a provision into place to accept the mercury waste we do recover with no fines fee's or charges. Lets not forget the lead we bring out also. I don't find a lot of gold when I go out but I usually find some shot gun shot.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
    thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming,
    Wow what a ride

  11. #41
    us
    This isn't a hobby! It's hard work!

    Feb 2013
    Golden Valley Arid-Zona
    Fisher / Gold Bug AND the MK-VII eyeballs
    3,465
    6154 times
    Prospecting/Mining and protecting our rights to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by kayakpat View Post
    I know nothing about the effects of dredging, or Calif situation and I want to dredge.
    Well, you've come to the right place to learn. That in itself is a good start!

    My point was I don't see the EPA or some Enviro's as enemies as a group.
    It's not the individual, it's those they've allowed to speak for them. Your average member is not the problem, as a rule they're caring people that only want to see the world be cleaned up. It's the group leadership that has gotten out of hand. They have learned that they can line their pockets at the expense of the American tax payers. Once they figured that little gem out, most thoughts of actually doing some good got put on the back burner when they learned how much money could be made. Just follow the money and you'll see what I mean. The boards of these groups have some outrageously high salaries.

    We have a horriable, dangerous mess to Thousands if not millions, and the EPA and Enviro's have been fighting to clean it up and hold the people who did it responsible. I doubt that they will get them,
    Yes there is a mess that needs cleaning up. However, in the overall view, only a low percentage of the Mercury they're screaming about actually came from mining back in the 1800s. Many areas of California have a large amount of Cinnabar which is a natural ore of Mercury. It releases Mercury over time and it ends up in the watersheds thanks to Mother Nature. This natural Mercury has been building up since time began. Many of the green groups just don't seem to be able to understand that even if man had never mined the areas in question, there would still be Mercury in them. Modern miners have cleaned up a lot of Mercury over the years and if given a chance will continue to do so. They do this for free and are happy about it. It costs the tax payers nothing while if the green plan is followed, the taxpayers will be paying through the nose. As far as holding the persons who did it responsible for their actions, that's going to be hard to do since they've been dead for over a hundred years or in the case of Mother Nature never really lived at all. The green groups though have attempted to shift the blame to the modern miners who in truth are not the culprits. We clean up both natural and "legacy" Mercury.

    meanwhile they are using taxpayers money to try and clean it up.
    This is one of the main rubs with me. Why should the tax payers pay some green group to have the mercury removed when miners will do the same service for free? A suction dredge will remove about 98% of the Mercury it comes across. the advertised rates for the methods the green groups have proposed is only about 90-92%. So.. A more effective method of removal that doesn't cost the tax payers a cent or a less effective method that will cost the tax payers millions? You decide.

    I would hope that truth will win in the end, but it is a real problem for average people to mount a EXPENSIVE legal representation to speak their beliefs. I cannot afford to have a attorney on call to fight for my interest.
    The miners have been dealing in truth since this whole fiasco started. The green groups however have been using lies, false science and scare tactics to push their agenda(s) forward. They have been abusing the EAJA to get the tax payers to pay for their lawsuits while miners have pretty much been left out in the cold in that respect. Speaking ones beliefs is actually free. Fighting for them in court is what costs! Imagine a world where the laws were written in plain language and lawyers were not needed to decipher them!

    No I do not agree with blankenstien, I think he is trying to start a fight
    Glad to hear that and you're right. He was spoiling for a fight and the members here refused to stoop to his level.
    As you spend more time on this forum, you're going to find that the majority here are very level headed for the most part and well informed. We take the time to learn and understand the issues at hand. There is a ton of good information here and we're willing to share it so others can learn about both mining methods and issues. There is no reason that the mining community and the green groups can't work hand in hand to the benefit of all the people. Most miners I know would be all for it, but the greenies will have to come to their senses, stop pointing fingers and start being honest with themselves and the public before this can happen.
    http://www.mylandmatters.org/
    The one stop place for mining matters on public lands!

    "Those that make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" John F. Kennedy

    When I joined the Army I took an oath to protect this country from enemies both foreign and domestic. To the best of my knowledge I've never been relieved of that oath and will continue to follow it to the best of my ability.

  12. #42
    us
    fowledup

    Jul 2013
    Northern California
    Whites GMT V/SAT
    2,757
    5166 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by scoy View Post
    From an environmental stand point I see dredging as a good thing. Mercury for example is 13.6 times heavier then water. So it will stay in the pan or the sluice.

    Down side that I can see is how do we miners get rid of the mercury we recover in a legal manner. I think in the long run it would help not hurt. I also think the state should A) Reward us for cleaning up the environment and B) Put a provision into place to accept the mercury waste we do recover with no fines fee's or charges. Lets not forget the lead we bring out also. I don't find a lot of gold when I go out but I usually find some shot gun shot.
    Scoy- That is the easiest part of the entire equation to solve, in fact the process is already in place. At the minute quantities we are speaking of special licenses, permits, and transportaion requirements are not required. Teaching safe handling practices are a brochure and short video away. Disposal is as simple as placing an appropriate container next to the existing waste flourescent tubes and CFL bin at your local County Household Waste Facility. Our facility is operated by local developmentally challenged citizens. The proceeds from the recycled materials in part fund the program. A huge win for the environment and the people. That is the type of common sense environmentalism I support! So if it's that simple; Why are we paying a "non-profit enviromental orgainzation" NINE million dollars and counting of tax payer dollars to "clean up" just ONE out of hundreds of contaminated waterways in this state.
    Jeff95531 likes this.
    Folks may not remember the words of what you said but they dang sure will remember how you made them feel!

  13. #43
    us
    Aug 2014
    Orange County, CA
    Bounty Hunter
    108
    83 times
    Prospecting
    I run a metallurgical lab for the company I work for they are a battery recycler and a precious metals processor we process all types of battery chemistries and auto catalyst so I'm fully aware of environmental regulations for corporate America however I was not aware of the small quantity generator rules you just outlined for say a miner and what the rules would be for us. Hence my questions,
    thanks for that. where is your facility located. There is a place down the street from us same type of set up.
    fowledup likes this.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
    thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming,
    Wow what a ride

  14. #44
    us
    This isn't a hobby! It's hard work!

    Feb 2013
    Golden Valley Arid-Zona
    Fisher / Gold Bug AND the MK-VII eyeballs
    3,465
    6154 times
    Prospecting/Mining and protecting our rights to do so.
    You nailed it Fowled! The problem for miners has never been getting the Mercury out of the streams and rivers. We do that quite well. It's having good places to turn it in that has always been the drawback. There are a number of simple ways to fix this as you mentioned, but the politicians never think simple. They always have to complicate everything beyond belief.
    http://www.mylandmatters.org/
    The one stop place for mining matters on public lands!

    "Those that make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" John F. Kennedy

    When I joined the Army I took an oath to protect this country from enemies both foreign and domestic. To the best of my knowledge I've never been relieved of that oath and will continue to follow it to the best of my ability.

  15. #45
    us
    fowledup

    Jul 2013
    Northern California
    Whites GMT V/SAT
    2,757
    5166 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by scoy View Post
    I run a metallurgical lab for the company I work for they are a battery recycler and a precious metals processor we process all types of battery chemistries and auto catalyst so I'm fully aware of environmental regulations for corporate America however I was not aware of the small quantity generator rules you just outlined for say a miner and what the rules would be for us. Hence my questions,
    thanks for that. where is your facility located. There is a place down the street from us same type of set up.
    I'm in Northern California. I'm not sure I need to check into it a little more but I don't believe it would even qualify for small quantity generator status, more then likely it would be exempt, or should be if they did it right in the program set up.
    Folks may not remember the words of what you said but they dang sure will remember how you made them feel!

 

 
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