California Court Threatens to Reopen Rivers to Destructive Suction Dredge Mining..LOL

[jvan]

California Court Threatens to Reopen Rivers to Destructive Suction Dredge Mining

TOTAL B.S..lol...

 

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[goldenIrishman]

The Tet Offensive was a disaster for the Vietcong. Militarily, it turned out to be a victory for the US and South Vietnamese.

Actually I was referring to them starting the attack during the cease fire.

 

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[goldenIrishman]

So you want to poison a hole city of people and towns , besides ruin the eco system, ?? Your greed and wants is more important to everything around you that supports you?? Have you ever seen people dying and animals dying from poluted systems It was a great American Indian Cheif that said " Someday you shall suffocate in your own waste. " Who cares what kind of blood you got in you?? what has that got to do with anything You and your measly little operation with your little bit of gold want to screw up everything for everyone else?? Your personal preferences stand above and take priority over the whole Government , the Universities, sytems of learning, advancement, people that come from all areas of life to fill those positions?? You are not "We the People" You don't care who you hurt or destroy just so you can get your gold.
There has been aprox 174 thousand tons of gold that has been mined in the world up to date. That is more than enough gold to feed the tech electronics and space agency and if they need more?? They will just get all of that stupid jewelry and melt it down.
Those TV shows such as Gold Rush and Uykon gold and even Bering Sea Gold are tiny little small spec fries compared to the Big league majior indusries which makes you even smaller.
Why don't you read paragraph 6 of the original statement posted here Read it lots and lots and lots of times.

Oh great.... Just what we didn't need! A Desertphile clone.... At least Desertphile could spell or use spell check in his posts.

 

[fowledup]

So you want to poison a hole city of people and towns , besides ruin the eco system, ?? Your greed and wants is more important to everything around you that supports you?? Have you ever seen people dying and animals dying from poluted systems It was a great American Indian Cheif that said " Someday you shall suffocate in your own waste. " Who cares what kind of blood you got in you?? what has that got to do with anything You and your measly little operation with your little bit of gold want to screw up everything for everyone else?? Your personal preferences stand above and take priority over the whole Government , the Universities, sytems of learning, advancement, people that come from all areas of life to fill those positions?? You are not "We the People" You don't care who you hurt or destroy just so you can get your gold.
There has been aprox 174 thousand tons of gold that has been mined in the world up to date. That is more than enough gold to feed the tech electronics and space agency and if they need more?? They will just get all of that stupid jewelry and melt it down.
Those TV shows such as Gold Rush and Uykon gold and even Bering Sea Gold are tiny little small spec fries compared to the Big league majior indusries which makes you even smaller.
Why don't you read paragraph 6 of the original statement posted here Read it lots and lots and lots of times.

I applaud your passion and commitment, what it lacks to be an effective tool for change is facts. Please do yourself and everyother citizen in this country whose rights and freedoms are being torn away at an alarming rate a giant favor. Dig deeper into your subject matter, understand it, and know how it works. If and when you do I suspect we will have a different discussion. As a starter for your research; go to a pet store and ask to talk with the person responsible for cleaning the tanks. Ask them if you can watch and if they will explain the process of how, why, and what they are doing, . Understand that concept, come on back and we can move on to when is it an appropriate time to dredge for gold in a watershed and where to dredge. If you are still interested we can touch on the benefits of removing the lead, mercury, and trash. No one wants to kill people or destroy the environment. That absurd, stop drinking the Kool-aid and use the gifts God gave you to dig in and make up your own mind. Heres an open invitation for you- once the legal aspects are worked out you contact me. We will go out and if by the end of the day you think I'm an earth destroying greedy monster I will give you a hundred dollar bill and fill out a donation form for your favorite cause.

 

[QNCrazy]

I applaud your passion and commitment, what it lacks to be an effective tool for change is facts. Please do yourself and everyother citizen in this country whose rights and freedoms are being torn away at an alarming rate a giant favor. Dig deeper into your subject matter, understand it, and know how it works. If and when you do I suspect we will have a different discussion. As a starter for your research; go to a pet store and ask to talk with the person responsible for cleaning the tanks. Ask them if you can watch and if they will explain the process of how, why, and what they are doing, . Understand that concept, come on back and we can move on to when is it an appropriate time to dredge for gold in a watershed and where to dredge. If you are still interested we can touch on the benefits of removing the lead, mercury, and trash. No one wants to kill people or destroy the environment. That absurd, stop drinking the Kool-aid and use the gifts God gave you to dig in and make up your own mind. Heres an open invitation for you- once the legal aspects are worked out you contact me. We will go out and if by the end of the day you think I'm an earth destroying greedy monster I will give you a hundred dollar bill and fill out a donation form for your favorite cause.

If he does take you up on your offer, may dredge be full of gold, lead, and mercury!!!

 

[spaghettigold]

So you want to poison a hole city of people and towns , besides ruin the eco system, ?? Your greed and wants is more important to everything around you that supports you?? Have you ever seen people dying and animals dying from poluted systems It was a great American Indian Cheif that said " Someday you shall suffocate in your own waste. " Who cares what kind of blood you got in you?? what has that got to do with anything You and your measly little operation with your little bit of gold want to screw up everything for everyone else?? Your personal preferences stand above and take priority over the whole Government , the Universities, sytems of learning, advancement, people that come from all areas of life to fill those positions?? You are not "We the People" You don't care who you hurt or destroy just so you can get your gold.
There has been aprox 174 thousand tons of gold that has been mined in the world up to date. That is more than enough gold to feed the tech electronics and space agency and if they need more?? They will just get all of that stupid jewelry and melt it down.
Those TV shows such as Gold Rush and Uykon gold and even Bering Sea Gold are tiny little small spec fries compared to the Big league majior indusries which makes you even smaller.
Why don't you read paragraph 6 of the original statement posted here Read it lots and lots and lots of times.

I asked this kayakpat,i also wanted to ask desertphile if he thinks thousands of citizens will die because of suction dredging,but he kamikazed himself.Now i ask youo you believe people and animals will die because of suction dredgers?Do you really believe that a river,the earth, cares about some people moving a few yards of gravel that will be moved by thousands ,millions of tons every year by natural action during floods,landslides etc.etc,.By washing gravels ,with water and gravity,no chemicals,nothing .Do you believe suction dredgers have an important impact on the mighty geology of a river?Look behind your prefabricated thoughts..there,s no need for science,we know it in our heart,thats why we can believe in what we do and say about suction dredging.Thats why we are so angry about it,its the injustice..And exactly..we are the small actors in the goldbusiness ,tyni ants scratching on the surface of this planet born in violent explosions,travelling thru the endless universe,so..why you come after us ??,while your Big major league companys get certifications for green gold because they pay your movement/industrie the share they want?Why you always mix up suction dredging with the history and victims that big industrie ops had in the past,or even of small scalers in poor developed countries that still are using tons of mercury in the field, mainly because of lack of technical equipment or education.Maybe the indian chief is right,maybe we will suffocate in our own waste someday,but the reason will not be suction dredging and you know it .

P.s.Fowled up:

 

[spaghettigold]

And now i go eat a certified steak

 

[goldenIrishman]

Ok... Now that I've recovered from my initial shock of so many false statements in a single post, let's go through it one or two sentences at a time and do a little truth finding here.....

So you want to poison a hole city of people and towns , besides ruin the eco system, ??
There isn't a single miner that is capable of doing such a thing on their own. Not even all the miners in California could accomplish such a feat. As a matter of fact, the modern miners of California have done more to improve water quality over the years than several of the so called "Green Groups" combined. Try thinking of how much more mercury and lead could have been removed from the watershed already if the ban had not been put in place.

Your greed and wants is more important to everything around you that supports you??
Well besides the extremely poor grammar and word usage I can't help but wonder who you were directing this statement at. Most miners I've ever known are not greedy. This is for one simple fact. They work hard to get what gold they do and you would deny a person the right to benefit from hard work? That work also benefits others by supporting jobs in other fields as well as helps improve the habitat for many species of fish and animals.

Have you ever seen people dying and animals dying from poluted systems
As a matter of fact I have, but not here in the United States for many MANY years now. In many cases the pollution was being caused by big businesses, not a small scale suction dredger. The people demanded and got laws to protect the environment. I haven't seen a river catch fire from the pollutants in a long time now. Heck... you can even see your hand in front of your face in downtown Los Angeles on a daily basis again.

It was a great American Indian Cheif that said " Someday you shall suffocate in your own waste. " Who cares what kind of blood you got in you?? what has that got to do with anything
If I remember correctly that was from an anti pollution commercial from back in the early 70s. I for one am proud of my heritage. It is because of that heritage that I take my responsibilities of running a clean mining operation very seriously. My people on both sides of my heritage have always been stewards of the lands and waters.

You and your measly little operation with your little bit of gold want to screw up everything for everyone else??
The size of any operation has nothing to do with this issue at all. 99% of all small scale miners run a very clean operation. It's not like we slop mercury around out in the field. We remove it from the environment.

Your personal preferences stand above and take priority over the whole Government , the Universities, sytems of learning, advancement, people that come from all areas of life to fill those positions??
My Personal preferences? Considering that the government was responsible for the mining laws we operate by, how can that be personal? When the government makes arrangements for certain groups with their own agenda to be the ones doing the studies, how can the truth be reached in these matters? Between falsified data, omitted data, conflict of interest, how can our government be expected to make good policies that benefit all of the people in an equal manner? For every study these so called scientists have done, there have been several others that show different findings. A fact is a fact even if it doesn't agree with your personal view of the world. There are no "Shades" to the truth.

You are not "We the People" You don't care who you hurt or destroy just so you can get your gold.
Actually we do care and we are a portion of "The People" as much as you and any other citizen of this country. We follow the laws as laid out by several different levels of government in our mining activities.

There has been aprox 174 thousand tons of gold that has been mined in the world up to date. That is more than enough gold to feed the tech electronics and space agency and if they need more?? They will just get all of that stupid jewelry and melt it down.
Not sure what the current figures are myself so I might have to concede that point. We also have to keep in mind that there's a lot of gold that was lost in ship wrecks back in the day, gold for the space program is lost once it's shot out into space and there are more and more electronic gadgets every in use year. People in general love gold and when you look at how scarce it is as well as all its uses, mankind in general will never have enough of it.

Those TV shows such as Gold Rush and Uykon gold and even Bering Sea Gold are tiny little small spec fries compared to the Big league majior indusries which makes you even smaller.
The majority of those shows are so far from actual mining that it isn't even funny. They mostly show the glory parts and don't bother with the actual facts that just finding a claim is a lot of long boring work. The big league boys on the other hand are usually working sulphide deposits in which the gold is so small that it can only be extracted through a leeching process of some kind. They have to move and process many MANY tons of materials to get a single ounce. They are STRICTLY regulated by the government and inspected on a regular basis to make sure they are staying within the laws and regulations. They have to deal with agencies like OSHA, EPA, and many others and keep them happy or they're shut down until any infractions are fixed.

Why don't you read paragraph 6 of the original statement posted here Read it lots and lots and lots of times.

Your paragraph #6
The harm done by suction dredging is well documented by scientists and government agencies. It harms state water supplies by suspending toxic mercury, sediment and heavy metals. The Environmental Protection Agency and State Water Resources Control Board urged a complete ban on suction dredge mining because of its significant impacts on water quality and wildlife from mercury pollution.

Documented by "Scientists" and Government Agencies"? Since the government has admitted that the data they used to make their decisions was flawed, wouldn't that indicate that any policy based on that data is also flawed? When scientists use flawed methods to find their data, that data is no longer within the realm of "Scientific Facts". A fact is truth and is the same for everyone no matter which side you're on in this fight. By using flawed methods to arrive at a PER-DETERMINED RESULT, you have thrown out real science in an effort to have your agenda fulfilled. I for one would welcome testing of the waters upstream from a suction dredging site while it is in operation as well as directly downstream from the same site. Mercury, like gold, does not suspend in water in any thing close to a major quantity. Add to that that suction dredging REMOVES Mercury and other toxic metals like lead from the waterways and I think that any intelligent person would see that dredging is to the benefit of everyone in the long run. Nature moves Mercury during floods all the time and has done so since well before man started mining. In many areas, Mercury occurs naturally thanks to Cinnabar which is an ore of Mercury. Many areas of California are very rich in Cinnabar. So...even if men had never mined in the state at all there would still be Mercury found in the waterways of the state. Miners are doing a service (for free no less) by removing these toxins from the waterways. At the same time, the action of suction dredging loosens up compacted gravels on the bottom of streams and rivers which improves fish spawning habitat.

Now I don't have anything against you personally, but I do wish you'd take the time to look at all sides of an issue before condemning either side. Take the time to look into what each side has to gain or loose as well as the overall effect of others beyond the surface. Don't allow your passion to over ride the truth and you'll be able to make better decisions in all aspects of life.

 

[QNCrazy]

Well said Golden.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Thrilled to see such mature calm responses to the fact free rant. Well done my fellow prospectors.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Unless someone wants to join desertpile, please stop the insults.

Posted From My $50 Tablet....

 

[Armchair prospector]

It is really about class envy anyway. Would the greenies worry about this if gold weren't a rare commodity?

 

[Goldwasher]

I really don't think they put, much thought into the gold factor....Its about righteousness. Thats why they havn't created their own exclusive program to recover it. Even the gold from Combie is a byproduct they aren't fully utilizing. Why would they put the effort into digging when they can line their pockets with tax dollars and fight for their cause at the same time. The thing that they will never be able to wrap their heads around is the fact that in our countries history the land users....Loggers, miners, fisherman, hunters have always been the most competent stewards and conservationists. used to be you had to walk or get on a horse and set out to utilize natural resources and deal with all the logistics...then there was settlements so you didn't have to travel so far. Almost everyone who moved out west was an "outdoorsman" so to say. Fast forward a century and a half. Now you live in the city want to "experience" nature and the outdoors. So on Saturday you go to some parking lot pay some fee and go "hike". You are now a special kind of idiot for paying to do something you have a congressionally granted right to do....but, you don't know that so you feed the system. Then while you are out hiking in your pricy gear made for pennies in another poor country...taking pictures with your cell phone that you could never leave behind...and are checking to see if you have service every fifteen minutes so you feel safe and connected to society. Then oh my God you run into a Fisherman....or hunter....or heaven forbid a MINER.....and you are aghast that these people are ruining your environment........they are destroying everything around you....even though you have no way to quantify it. You can just sense it by their presence alone. So, you hike back out.....checking for service the whole time so you can go online post haste and see if someone is doing something about this.....you find several groups ready to accept your donation and membership. Perfect and convenient hand over some dough and these people will do what they can on your behalf to end this nonsense. You don't have to read any history...learn any laws...understand any rights...shoot someone is right there to make sure you know the appropriate facts in the context you want them. You don't care that any of those other users enjoy said environment more often and more responsibly than you and our most likely several generations into that heritage. All based on your experience once a month and two weeks a year. As long as you have a parking space to pay for, an overflowing trash can to add to.......and the pride of calling yourself an adventurer you know what's best for all.

Class envy nope...........People sucking in general YEP!!!!!!!

 

[Mad Machinist]

So you want to poison a hole city of people and towns , besides ruin the eco system, ?? Your greed and wants is more important to everything around you that supports you?? Have you ever seen people dying and animals dying from poluted systems It was a great American Indian Cheif that said " Someday you shall suffocate in your own waste. " Who cares what kind of blood you got in you?? what has that got to do with anything You and your measly little operation with your little bit of gold want to screw up everything for everyone else?? Your personal preferences stand above and take priority over the whole Government , the Universities, sytems of learning, advancement, people that come from all areas of life to fill those positions?? You are not "We the People" You don't care who you hurt or destroy just so you can get your gold.
There has been aprox 174 thousand tons of gold that has been mined in the world up to date. That is more than enough gold to feed the tech electronics and space agency and if they need more?? They will just get all of that stupid jewelry and melt it down.
Those TV shows such as Gold Rush and Uykon gold and even Bering Sea Gold are tiny little small spec fries compared to the Big league majior indusries which makes you even smaller.
Why don't you read paragraph 6 of the original statement posted here Read it lots and lots and lots of times.

Perhaps you would like to have a little discussion with me. But before you do, take a very long and hard look at my signature.

Then we call talk about substrate armoring, interspatial siltation, stream scour, and a whole host of other things that are removed by suction dredging.

 

[kayakpat]

I know nothing about the effects of dredging, or Calif situation and I want to dredge. My point was I don't see the EPA or some Enviro's as enemies as a group. We have a horriable, dangerous mess to Thousands if not millions, and the EPA and Enviro's have been fighting to clean it up and hold the people who did it responsible. I doubt that they will get them, meanwhile they are using taxpayers money to try and clean it up. I would hope that truth will win in the end, but it is a real problem for average people to mount a EXPENSIVE legal representation to speak their beliefs. I cannot afford to have a attorney on call to fight for my interest. No I do not agree with blankenstien, I think he is trying to start a fight

 

[Oakview2]

Germany repatriates more gold: Bundesbank


I guess facts don't much matter. He claims that total world production of gold in the world is 174 thousand tons. From the article, Germany repatriates gold.

"Germany's gold reserves are the second-biggest in the world after those of the United States and totalled 3,384.2 tonnes this month, according to the latest data compiled by the World Gold Council."

So you want to poison a hole city of people and towns , besides ruin the eco system, ?? Your greed and wants is more important to everything around you that supports you?? Have you ever seen people dying and animals dying from poluted systems It was a great American Indian Cheif that said " Someday you shall suffocate in your own waste. " Who cares what kind of blood you got in you?? what has that got to do with anything You and your measly little operation with your little bit of gold want to screw up everything for everyone else?? Your personal preferences stand above and take priority over the whole Government , the Universities, sytems of learning, advancement, people that come from all areas of life to fill those positions?? You are not "We the People" You don't care who you hurt or destroy just so you can get your gold.
There has been aprox 174 thousand tons of gold that has been mined in the world up to date. That is more than enough gold to feed the tech electronics and space agency and if they need more?? They will just get all of that stupid jewelry and melt it down.
Those TV shows such as Gold Rush and Uykon gold and even Bering Sea Gold are tiny little small spec fries compared to the Big league majior indusries which makes you even smaller.
Why don't you read paragraph 6 of the original statement posted here Read it lots and lots and lots of times.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Anyone got the figures for how much gold is currently on hand on a worldwide basis? National reserves etc? I think figuring out how much of it has been used in jewelery would be a LOT tougher!

 

[Oakview2]

Latest World Official Gold Reserves | World Gold Council

 

[goldenIrishman]

Latest World Official Gold Reserves | World Gold Council

Thank you Sir!

 

[goldenIrishman]

I know nothing about the effects of dredging, or Calif situation and I want to dredge.
Well, you've come to the right place to learn. That in itself is a good start!

My point was I don't see the EPA or some Enviro's as enemies as a group.
It's not the individual, it's those they've allowed to speak for them. Your average member is not the problem, as a rule they're caring people that only want to see the world be cleaned up. It's the group leadership that has gotten out of hand. They have learned that they can line their pockets at the expense of the American tax payers. Once they figured that little gem out, most thoughts of actually doing some good got put on the back burner when they learned how much money could be made. Just follow the money and you'll see what I mean. The boards of these groups have some outrageously high salaries.

We have a horriable, dangerous mess to Thousands if not millions, and the EPA and Enviro's have been fighting to clean it up and hold the people who did it responsible. I doubt that they will get them,
Yes there is a mess that needs cleaning up. However, in the overall view, only a low percentage of the Mercury they're screaming about actually came from mining back in the 1800s. Many areas of California have a large amount of Cinnabar which is a natural ore of Mercury. It releases Mercury over time and it ends up in the watersheds thanks to Mother Nature. This natural Mercury has been building up since time began. Many of the green groups just don't seem to be able to understand that even if man had never mined the areas in question, there would still be Mercury in them. Modern miners have cleaned up a lot of Mercury over the years and if given a chance will continue to do so. They do this for free and are happy about it. It costs the tax payers nothing while if the green plan is followed, the taxpayers will be paying through the nose. As far as holding the persons who did it responsible for their actions, that's going to be hard to do since they've been dead for over a hundred years or in the case of Mother Nature never really lived at all. The green groups though have attempted to shift the blame to the modern miners who in truth are not the culprits. We clean up both natural and "legacy" Mercury.

meanwhile they are using taxpayers money to try and clean it up.
This is one of the main rubs with me. Why should the tax payers pay some green group to have the mercury removed when miners will do the same service for free? A suction dredge will remove about 98% of the Mercury it comes across. the advertised rates for the methods the green groups have proposed is only about 90-92%. So.. A more effective method of removal that doesn't cost the tax payers a cent or a less effective method that will cost the tax payers millions? You decide.

I would hope that truth will win in the end, but it is a real problem for average people to mount a EXPENSIVE legal representation to speak their beliefs. I cannot afford to have a attorney on call to fight for my interest.
The miners have been dealing in truth since this whole fiasco started. The green groups however have been using lies, false science and scare tactics to push their agenda(s) forward. They have been abusing the EAJA to get the tax payers to pay for their lawsuits while miners have pretty much been left out in the cold in that respect. Speaking ones beliefs is actually free. Fighting for them in court is what costs! Imagine a world where the laws were written in plain language and lawyers were not needed to decipher them!

No I do not agree with blankenstien, I think he is trying to start a fight
Glad to hear that and you're right. He was spoiling for a fight and the members here refused to stoop to his level.

As you spend more time on this forum, you're going to find that the majority here are very level headed for the most part and well informed. We take the time to learn and understand the issues at hand. There is a ton of good information here and we're willing to share it so others can learn about both mining methods and issues. There is no reason that the mining community and the green groups can't work hand in hand to the benefit of all the people. Most miners I know would be all for it, but the greenies will have to come to their senses, stop pointing fingers and start being honest with themselves and the public before this can happen.

 

[Mad Machinist]

As you spend more time on this forum, you're going to find that the majority here are very level headed for the most part and well informed. We take the time to learn and understand the issues at hand. There is a ton of good information here and we're willing to share it so others can learn about both mining methods and issues. There is no reason that the mining community and the green groups can't work hand in hand to the benefit of all the people. Most miners I know would be all for it, but the greenies will have to come to their senses, stop pointing fingers and start being honest with themselves and the public before this can happen.

golden,


IMHO the whole mercury thing is WAY overblown. Elemental mercury is basically harmless unless you eat it.

It is methyl mercury that is the "concern". Methyl mercury bonds with selenium to become a harmless compound.

Nice study to read. Dietary selenium reduces retention of methyl mercury in freshwater fish.

Some might remember this one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kesterson_Reservoir

Remove one the other becomes a toxin. Leave them both and nature will find a way to balance them out.

Edit: nice little video on both selenium and mercury.

Edit again: had to fix links.