Goldwell gone? Oh well, no Goldwell

[Reed Lukens]

I tried contacting Goldwell a few times in the last month to see where they've been and to try to decide whether to get a Gold Cube or the 48" Goldwell for our hardrock crushed first stage and guess what Absolutely no reply to the email or call backs by phone after the messages I left to try and communicate with them. So I called Mike Pung Friday at Gold Cube and set up an order with him for a Gold Cube Trommel instead. This way we will have a cube trommel for our first stage right out of the crusher and then my partner Rodney has his cube for deep in the bush.

Anyone ever tried adding a stage to the Gold Cube with Gold Hog UR or Bedrock mat instead of Vortex?

 

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[russau]

Interesting idea Reed! Ive got both the Cube and the matting but since the matting (in the Cube)is fastened down I don't want to remove it! Doc just did a video on running screened cons over his matting and into the Cube. for now im happy with the way my Cube is! it is one of my best investments!

 

[Jim in Idaho]

I think it has to be tough to sell sluice boxes at $600-$1500. No matter the quality.
On another note....sure enjoy your videos, Reed.
Jim

 

[ratled]

I asked a buddy who is into them and he sent this
"I heard a few months ago they were going through internal changes and can be reached at this link" HM Research - Manufacturer of the Gold Well Vortex Drop Riffle Sluice

I hope this helps

Personally we use an unmodified 3 tray cube and haven't looked back. A couple of years ago we would have 6-8 guys every night coming by the trailer to do their cons. Some guys would take the tailings home and pan em just in case. Not one said they ever found a single piece of AU in the tailings. I'm sure there might have been a speck or two of super fine stuff but nothing I'm worried about

ratled

 

[ratled]

I just got this from another guy I know who sold them... it was paraphrased

The owner and inventor is going through personal issues. He is no longer involved with Goldwell. The new guy is Mike Rowlands, but I'm not sure what is going on, a former partner and co creator is trying to put everything back on track


ratled

 

[Reed Lukens]

Yep that's the page I tried getting a hold of them on and got know where so... Maybe some new owners can make it work. Fresh faces could do a lot. Russ the vorrtex matting can be taken out with a heat gun in the Gold Cube. My friend had to fix his and said it was a 5 minute fix to straighten out his mat.

 

[arizau]

I tried contacting Goldwell a few times in the last month to see where they've been and to try to decide whether to get a Gold Cube or the 48" Goldwell for our hardrock crushed first stage and guess what Absolutely no reply to the email or call backs by phone after the messages I left to try and communicate with them. So I called Mike Pung Friday at Gold Cube and set up an order with him for a Gold Cube Trommel instead. This way we will have a cube trommel for our first stage right out of the crusher and then my partner Rodney has his cube for deep in the bush.

Anyone ever tried adding a stage to the Gold Cube with Gold Hog UR or Bedrock mat instead of Vortex?

This is from Doc's goldprospectingforum.com
Info about mat selection.

"Bedrock Mat
Attachment:
br2550.jpg
The updated Bedrock mat (2.0) is a great finishing mat and fine gold mat in smoother flowing sluices. It likes smooth fast water and is great at the end of a sluice. It creates almost zero turbulence but has great exchange rates. It’s been tested in everything from stream sluices to, highbankers, to commercial ops running smooth water. Like all our mats it must be tuned with water flow and pitch."

Looks like Bedrock and probably UR mat would not be good choices for your possible mod. If nothing else note the last sentence above.
You might want to check out Doc's forum (it is mentioned above) for some good info about his mats.

Good luck.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Reed the Goldwell (HM research) company moved out of their building a few months ago. I've heard they moved to the east side of town but I haven't been over that way when I had time to look for them.

I'd be careful about other folks claiming to be part of the company or owning the design. That same sort thing is what got the inventor off to a bad start when the sluice was first introduced.

If I get over that way in Wickenburg soon I'll let you know what I find out.

Heavy Pans

 

[goldhog]

Anyone ever tried adding a stage to the Gold Cube with Gold Hog UR or Bedrock mat instead of Vortex?

Hi Reed,
I wouldn't change out the cube matting as the flow is just not enough to really make the mats active.
We've played around with it a few times, but 1100 gph spread out over 12" just doesn't really work.
So keep the Vortex mat in.

What you can do if you are running cons....
Is run a sluice / tray prior to the cube with washer mat in it.
10" wide.... 1100 gph....... at 12 degrees.
Just put up a video of that set up and we have a bunch of people now running that config.

Doc

 

[ncclaymaker]

Called a company called "Gold Rush", a website online store. Left a message concerning Goldwell sluices... they replied that they had been sold to a third party and have withdrawn their products from their online store. I also called the two available numbers, got a busy signal on one, not accepting calls on another, and no reply from an email I had sent to them.

They probably are gone with the wind. Hope that no one placed an order and expects service.

 

[russau]

Did they copy your data for their own CNC machine so they could copy them? real nice guys

 

[Reed Lukens]

There's more to it, if you have seen the new 3rd season of Yukon Gold, they are using the stolen patent copy's of the Goldwell as their clean up sluices throughout the series.

 

[Mad Machinist]

As soon as we have sales back online I will put a new phone number on the website as well as new address information. The website has taken a back seat while we have been busy with getting manufacturing back up. The reason we chose to cancel our current machine shop was that the owner of that shop was selling my parts to a party who was using the parts to manufacture a knockoff. Very unethical. It was for this reason and this reason alone that I ended manufacture and began looking for another shop to do my parts for me. I didn't realize it was going to take this long though!

If you get in a situation like that again, let me know. I know a few small shops on this side of the state that might be happy for the work.

 

[bobw53]

The reason we chose to cancel our current machine shop was that the owner of that shop was selling my parts to a party who was using the parts to manufacture a knockoff. !

Spend a few bucks and get a ROCK solid NDA drawn up. Even pay the owner to come down to the bank with you to have it notarized... And I've learned that the county will file anything, after its signed, and
notarized, go down, spend the 10 bucks and file it as an affidavit (I think that's the right thing).

As a shop owner myself it can be tough not stepping on peoples toes. Go through and do a patent search... F'n ridiculous, seems almost everything is patented, but a lot are unenforceable or
the people that have them don't have the money to defend them. A while back I ran across a vise clamp on e-bay... "patented"... I've made 100's of clamps essentially identical, there are pictures of
clamps that are essentially identical going back 100 years. Round a few corners, spray it black and get a patent on something that machinists have been making themselves forever... Idiot.

So on the Goldwell Sluice. I think it looks like a fun idea, and my plans for quite a while have been to make myself one to play with. Just a little one, for something fun to do. I just
can't bring myself to pay money to buy something I can make myself, and something I don't even need (no water in the desert). Would I ever sell it, no, not my idea, and I have enough
things going on that won't let me sleep at night, I don't need to add guilt to that.

It takes some huge Cajones to backdoor a part or assembly that a customer is paying you to make. Scumbags are everywhere.

I wish you luck, its a neat idea.

 

[Reed Lukens]

If you get in a situation like that again, let me know. I know a few small shops on this side of the state that might be happy for the work.

Yea I told him that too. We still have the historic mining works here in Grass Valley that patented lots of equipment including the first hydraulic monitors. Lots of great mining equipment still comes out of this area.

 

[bobw53]

And people forget that it is ILLEGAL, criminally punishable by time in jail, to copy a patented thing. I think it's up to 6 months in jail. Maybe not a felony but I don't know a lot of people that have a spare 6 months to interrupt their lives,

I hate to say it, but you need to sit down with a patent attorney. Just pay him for an hour and ask him questions...

Patent infringement is not a criminal offense. Its purely civil. All a patent does is give you the right to defend your stuff, that's it, all it does is allow you to sue somebody.

How Patent Infringement Works - HowStuffWorks
What Is the Punishment for Violating a Patent? | LegalZoom: Legal Info
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEkQFjAFahUKEwjahJLV3eDGAhWTFZIKHRsAAzc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbuffaloipjournal.org%2Fvolumepdfs%2Fbiplj613.pdf&ei=eDSoVdroIZOryASbgIy4Aw&usg=AFQjCNGL-yoCDwhOGsirRcfju8-mO6gXhQ&sig2=eBdJblw1_FjhCJxQ2lQl5Q&bvm=bv.98197061,bs.1,d.aWw <--- PDF 1.8megs.

The only thing I've ever found is one thing from Purdue University that says "may go to jail", there is nothing anywhere of anybody ever going to jail.

I can't even find a patent for it. Do you have a patent #?

Anyways, it is solely your job to defend it. It is your job to pay the money to defend it. If I make myself one and post it up on here, what are you going to do?
I've already told you I won't step on people's toes, but I will make myself something that I can make, just to have something to play with.

First you have to get a lawyer... Hopefully you already paid one for an hour and talked about this, so you know how f'n expensive they are... They are going to want a
retainer, and then you have to pay above and beyond that for services rendered. They "retain" the retainer for when you say "I quit" and they have to tie up the loose ends,
they at least know they get paid, and then you get the rest back when its actually done.

Honestly, first off, if there are all these people copying the thing. Are they in jail? They are letting rapists and pot smokers go early, do you think they have room for a guy
making a sluice in his garage? Are you suing them? I'm going to guess that you aren't, otherwise you wouldn't think they are going to jail, because they aren't. Have you
even sent them a cease and desist letter? That's the first step, and that costs, anything beyond that costs A LOT. And what are you going to get? NOTHING because I
won't make any money on it.

You really need to go sit down with a lawyer, if you want to make this successful, and I hope you do... Stop whining about people copying you. Sell a quality product at
a decent price. A patent doesn't mean a fricken thing unless you have the money to defend it (and if its a defensible patent to begin with). A quality product at a decent price
and there would have been no need for a patent.

Patents are shade tree inventors wet dreams. They can make a nice wall hanger, but they aren't worth the paper they are printed on unless you have the money to defend it,
and it will make enough money to more than cover that defense. Just make a quality product at a good price, a little marketing and then it will sell itself. Large companies
infringe all the time... They have the money, you don't. I don't think there is enough money in this for a fight, quality product, good price, and you'll make money.

Stop whining about other people making knock offs (at least they are making something) get off your ass and make some sluices... There are people here that want them, and I
think its cool enough to try and make one for myself. Even better if it works.

Find a good local shop, and it shouldn't be that hard. There is very little work in those. Slab of aluminum with a bit of machining. Some laser cut stainless, a few screws and you have a product.
You'll make a lot more money if you supply material, I would hit you with a pretty hefty material markup since the machine work is so simple and the material cost is going to be the majority.
I'm talking about the aluminum part.

If you would like, PM me, I can give you a good aluminum supplier and a place to laser cut your stainless bits that have done some really good, good priced work for me.
You really shouldn't have the entire assembly coming from one place, that makes it really easy to sell out the back door. Get your parts from a few suppliers and
assemble them yourself, or hire somebody to assemble them and ship them.

I really do hope you succeed, but I'm still going to make a little one to play with.

 

[Adventure_Time]

Provisional patents that are filed give 'Patent Pending' protection. Provisional patents are NOT listed through the patent office so there is no way really to find it. The utility patent has been filed and can take a few years to receive. Nice thing is that as I understand it, there is a period of 6 years that one can go back on people that copied your patented device. It's not about whining, it's about a device that I invented that others are copying, taking income from me, and because most of them don't know how it works, aren't able to make a functional modification that won't make it lose gold. They all want to make some minor change so it looks as if they improved the design. Problem there is that it looks very similar and their knockoff loses gold, and others see it and believe it is my sluice, due to the fact that mine is so unique looking, and it's giving my sluice a bad rep because people can't tell the difference for the most part. One guy bashed it because it was so hard to adjust. But he was using a knockoff made with plates that looked similar but a lot of off-the-shelf garbage cobbled together with it to provide a water supply and highbanker and legs. It totally looked like trash.

And fortunately I don't really have to go to the effort to sue anyone. I just sign an authorization to act on my behalf and a copy of the patent, and a company like this one takes it from there. That's what I will do. No effort or cost on my part. So right now all I am doing is taking notes. The people that think it's ok to copy my design can argue it with them later.

Patent Infringement | General Patent Corporation

You are fighting an uphill battle here, if you want to eliminate this headache you build a quality product that is easily distinguishable from carbon copy clones because you paid for a trademark so people know EXACTLY who it came from. It's alot easier to fight trademark infringements on any level, and more effective towards fostering a successful business long term, than to continue to spend your time trying to put out a forest fire with a wet blanket. Best of luck to you.

Also you should be etching in serial numbers imo.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Patent infringement is a civil offense. On the way to final patent (or even after in some circumstances) there are Trade Secrets. Theft of a trade secret is a criminal act under Federal law with prison time of as much as 10 years and fines of up to 5 million dollars.

I see folks here openly copying others designs. Sluices and coins are openly copied in violation of the creators rights. Right on this thread individuals have told the creator they will copy their work.

Forget the fact that it's legally theft with big monetary penalties - how does anyone justify taking the work of another? Morally I have big problems with people not caring about the property of others. Where do you draw the line when it comes to using the labor and creativity of others without compensating them for their work and abilities?

It's not a hypothetical question but I doubt I will get any answers. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Heavy Pans

 

[bobw53]

Patent infringement is a civil offense. On the way to final patent (or even after in some circumstances) there are Trade Secrets. Theft of a trade secret is a criminal act under Federal law with prison time of as much as 10 years and fines of up to 5 million dollars.

I see folks here openly copying others designs. Sluices and coins are openly copied in violation of the creators rights. Right on this thread individuals have told the creator they will copy their work.

Forget the fact that it's legally theft with big monetary penalties - how does anyone justify taking the work of another? Morally I have big problems with people not caring about the property of others. Where do you draw the line when it comes to using the labor and creativity of others without compensating them for their work and abilities?

It's not a hypothetical question but I doubt I will get any answers. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Heavy Pans

Hey Clay... I think the economic espionage act that you linked to deals with actually stealing information (the trade secret) from the owner... That's how I read it, and
that's what it looks like from here.

Cases from Economic Espionage Act | Trade Secrets Institute

9-59.000 - Economic Espionage | USAM | Department of Justice

Then you have the economic benefit bit (which I'm assuming is more on the selling the secret than using the product side)... And then the whole commerce thing... If you don't sell it,
no big deal..

I did say I would copy it (from pics)... Seems like something fun to play with, and I have the equipment.. I said I wouldn't sell it... Because that's just a jerk move,
and kind of stupid if there is a patent on it.

Though quite honestly, if you've ever had an idea, there is most likely many patents already on that idea.

I understand the need for patents, but if you dig through them, most are useless, or in-defensible, or identical to other patents that have already been issued.
They really are kind of useless, unless you have deep pockets.

I also think a trademark would be far more valuable to the Goldwell guy than a patent.. And I like the serialization idea... Not consecutive though, some strange
thing, like multiples of 11 minus 4... Or even random, and then recorded, so a fake would be more likely to be spotted. Of course that info can't be made public.

I have no problem copying or mimicking a patented product for my own use. Selling it is a different story.

 

[bobw53]

Well as I said in the last post, I don't have to do anything really, so it's not going to cost me a dime.

The real question is, is your patent infringement company going to do anything, because they CAN'T MAKE a dime. Its all civil, its all damages,
and if you read their speel. They also will negotiate royalties with people that are infringing on your patent. In other words, they don't necessarily
stop people from infringing on your patent, you just might get a small cut... After legal fees of course..

Actually, it is not even legal to copy for personal use.

I've told you, and I'll tell you again... When I get time I will make one from the pics I've seen, and I will play with it... You have a patent... What are you
going to do? Are you going to sue me? Its a purely civil matter... Are you going to sue me for damages? Profit on one sluice? A sluice I wouldn't even
have bought? I didn't steal a trade secret, I saw a pic and thought it was cool, and I copied it... For my own personal use.

What is the profit on one sluice? You're patent infringement company wouldn't bat an eyelash. $100? That would get your patent infringement company
half way through the greeting on a cease and desist letter.

Do not hang your hat on a patent... Its worth what you are willing to spend to defend it... Yeah, you have a company... It has to be worth it for them
to spend the money to defend it.

Other people have actually made and sold copies of your sluice... How much have you recovered from that?

Build a quality product, one that works, and works well. Put a fancy dancy trade marked name on it... Sell it at a reasonable cost, and then you will
win..

Develop some good relationships with some trusted manufacturers (machine/job shops) and get to making some damn sluices and stop worrying about
patents.... If your product isn't on the market, then you are kind of screwed.

I really want you to succeed. Its a really cool concept, a unique design.... I'm not sure what is taking you so long, I could have you at least a dozen by the middle of next week
if I had the prints in my hand.