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Thread: black sand clean up

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  1. #16
    ca
    Feb 2007
    Okanagan Valley, British Columbia, Canada
    A Compass Magnum 420 recently brought back to life. And an untested "in the wild" Teknetics.
    512

    Re: black sand clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by M3R1IN
    I havent had a chance to do anything regarding smelting my black sands... no time... work is crazy busy, theres a building boom in Alberta right now and im working like a dog. I did get a few hours this afternoon to look through my sapphire gravels... and look what i found. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,90274.0.html
    yay, i wonder how much its worth?
    If its real, which I would think it was, theres a chart half way down this page that shows price trends in U.S.$ per Carat:
    http://palagems.com/gods_graves_sapphires.htm

    Maybe you can afford to take a holiday now?

    F.
    Quote of Sir Joshua Reynolds': "There is no expedient, to which a man will not resort; to avoid the real labor, of thinking."

  2. #17

    Oct 2006
    Alberta, Canada
    Whites DFX, stock and DD coil
    167
    1 times

    Re: black sand clean up

    i guarantee you this rough gem is genuine. I pulled it out of gravel concentrates by my own hand... unless the mine owners are screwing around with me it is real. I really should get this gem finished and i also found a 2.3ct purple one last night i will get finished... my sister in law's grandfather is a gem dealer at auctions and i will probably try to get him to sell it 4 me... it sure would pay for that MD ive had my eye on.
    Dont be influenced by the opinions of others, be your own self

  3. #18
    ca
    Feb 2007
    Okanagan Valley, British Columbia, Canada
    A Compass Magnum 420 recently brought back to life. And an untested "in the wild" Teknetics.
    512

    Re: black sand clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by M3R1IN
    i guarantee you this rough gem is genuine. I pulled it out of gravel concentrates by my own hand... unless the mine owners are screwing around with me it is real. I really should get this gem finished and i also found a 2.3ct purple one last night i will get finished... my sister in law's grandfather is a gem dealer at auctions and i will probably try to get him to sell it 4 me... it sure would pay for that MD ive had my eye on.
    I don't know about this particular instance, but in some cases mines that invite people to buy concentrates, sometimes "salt" them to encourage others to go there. That doesn't mean they did, nor does it mean that those aren't real sapphires. It might just have been luck of the draw. I'd definitely mark that place as a stop for my next vacation to pick up another bucket or two.

    You could buy yourself a nice little smelter for your black sands, with that too.

    F.
    Quote of Sir Joshua Reynolds': "There is no expedient, to which a man will not resort; to avoid the real labor, of thinking."

  4. #19

    Oct 2006
    Alberta, Canada
    Whites DFX, stock and DD coil
    167
    1 times

    Re: black sand clean up

    this is my 4th bag from that mine and ive been getting consistent high carat counts from each one... i dont think theyre salted concentrates, so long as they dont let me down, i will keep a comin back
    Dont be influenced by the opinions of others, be your own self

  5. #20
    Flatlander bitten by the gold bug.

    Jan 2005
    286
    4 times

    Re: black sand clean up

    FWIW, You all need to get a copy of the latest ICMJ magazine.. The "best suggestion" in the article comes down to one thing. Classify, CLASSify, CLASSIFY!!

    You can classify from 12 mesh down to 30 mesh then 100 mesh use a magnet, then tumbler the blacksands in an acidic solution, then put in a bluebowl that is as good as it gets without playing with mercury.

    Gold is where you find it..

  6. #21
    ca
    Feb 2007
    Okanagan Valley, British Columbia, Canada
    A Compass Magnum 420 recently brought back to life. And an untested "in the wild" Teknetics.
    512

    Re: black sand clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by nebraskadad
    FWIW, You all need to get a copy of the latest ICMJ magazine.. The "best suggestion" in the article comes down to one thing. Classify, CLASSify, CLASSIFY!!

    You can classify from 12 mesh down to 30 mesh then 100 mesh use a magnet, then tumbler the blacksands in an acidic solution, then put in a bluebowl that is as good as it gets without playing with mercury.
    Thanks for the input nebraskadad.

    Personally I don't usually classify that much and when I do, its at the end of the day done over a tub, so I don't loose the black sands. We have small gold in the area I normally pan, mostly flakes and flour gold with pinhead sized platinum nuggets that are pretty easy to pick out when finish panning. Strangely enough I've never found any "flake" platinum. And of course are tellurides, (salts, like Calaverite), containing gold and platinum, (I think thats right, but I'm no chemist), mixed in with the black sand.

    If you've got an idea of what your black sands contain, in most cases, you really don't need mercury. Small scale smelting isn't that hard if you have some basic equipment and can turn out some high grade gold cheaply. The basics on that are on these pages:

    http://www.prospectorsparadise.com/html/smelting.html
    http://www.prospectorsparadise.com/html/black_sand.html
    http://www.prospectorsparadise.com/html/assaying.html
    When you think you have assaying down, try colorimetric assay:
    http://www.prospectorsparadise.com/h...orimetric.html

    Three things about the above website.
    1) Your better off reading everything, as the pages aren't well ordered IMHO.
    2) Follow all warnings when handling chemicals, (some of them can cause injury, or death).
    3) If you must learn anything, make sure you learn about Acids and Bases on this page:
    http://www.prospectorsparadise.com/html/acids.html

    On the above page, there is an interesting comment about the use of nitric acid being used to clean up gold. Suffice to say, DON'T DO IT! At least not until you have read what it says about 3/4 of the way down the page under the section titled: "Things That You Can Use Acids and Bases For".

    Further down the same page is a section titled: "Dealing with black sand" that should be of interest to all gold panners, but read the whole page so you know what concentrations of acid to use.

    And lastly, while the site above refers to "Basement" Chemistry, I wouldn't do any of this stuff in a confined place.

    F.
    Quote of Sir Joshua Reynolds': "There is no expedient, to which a man will not resort; to avoid the real labor, of thinking."

  7. #22

    Apr 2007
    28

    Re: black sand clean up

    I too heard about Nitric, but not for clean up, but for testing...to my understanding, it will "eat" fools gold but will do nothing to real gold.
    I was able to get some at a jeweler, they use a knife sharpening stone to rub the ring across, then they put one drop of nitric on it to test to see if the jewelry is real or plate.The jeweler I went to had gone to the more advanced ultrasonic tester, so he sold me his old test kit.
    But like others have said...be very careful, it can cause some serious injuries to your skin if you come in contact with it

  8. #23

    Aug 2007
    Pennsylvania
    16

    Re: black sand clean up

    I'm not as experienced in the chemical end as some who have responded, but, I'll tell you how I separate my ultra-fine gold from black sand.....

    I bought plans for a roller mill that is about the size of a five gallon bucket (maybe a little bigger) that I run all my black sand through once I get all the gold out of it that I can..... I bought the plans on eBay and they claimed that it would reduce to about 600 mesh. In actuality it only reduced to just under 400 mesh, but since I have to use a microscope, that's small enough for me....

    I bought a professional "sonic" jewelry cleaner on eBay for $80.00 and I put my black sand in it about 1/2 cup at a time (it holds a little over a cup and a half) and keep adding the crushed black sand every hour or so, letting the excess flow over (add by the table spoon into the center, as soon as it goes flat add another table spoon)...... The sizmic action keeps the heavies in the -400 mesh material moving to the bottem... I ran about 4 - 4 1/2 gallon of rich black sand and ended up seeing gold on top when I stopped. The gold actually filled the container......

    The black sand that was left I proessed in a rock tumbler w/ about 1/4 oz. of mercury for about 2 hours / load (this is a 45lb. tumbler)... I heated the nitric acid in a pyrex dish and added the butten from the mercury press to it and after the smoke cleared I had hardly any gold...... I usually got a nice gold butten when processing with mercury and nitric acid.... What I found is that crushing your black sand below 400 mesh and using the sonic jewelry cleaner removed almost ALL gold in the black sand..... I probably would have had to run at least 50 gallon of black sand to even get a 1/4 oz. of gold after what the jewelry cleaner settled out....

    What's in the jewelry cleaner isn't pure, there's still black sand (unless you keep adding until all you see is gold, but then I'm sure you would still have a tiny bit & you would loose gold in the overflow) plus other impurities like platnum, silver, copper, zinc etc., but it's as pure as you'll ever get it.....

    That's just how I process mine, lots of other people on here have other great ideas that may work as well (I just don't use chemicals anymore, not worth it for what I miss)..... If I could get my roller mill to chush the material below 600 or 800 mesh I think I could get 100% (or close to it) of the micro gold with out chemicals...

    Good luck and hope your pan is always lined in Gold....

    Coyote....
    Political Jokes are not funny, but, they usually get a whole lot more offensive when they take office.....

  9. #24

    Jan 2007
    McAlester, Okla
    whites, Garrett.and Tesoro
    14
    1 times

    Re: black sand clean up

    Coyote... What model of ultra sonic cleaner are you useing. I have looked at several for sale on the net. And I would like to try one like you have. Buck
    staci likes this.
    Be sure your right, then go a head.  Davy Crockett

  10. #25

    May 2005
    35

    Re: black sand clean up

    That ultrasonic jewelry cleaner is a good idea. Like Buck, I'd like to know what model you use so I can check it's results against my green bowl.

    Here's a cheaper way to clean the blacksands instead of using nitric acid. Disolve plain uniodized salt in warm distilled vinager. Add the solution to the blacksands and agitate them periodicly. Does a great job of removing the free iron, zinc and other contaminants.

    Another idea is plain bleach.


    Chuck


  11. #26

    Aug 2007
    Pennsylvania
    16

    Re: black sand clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by wpareig
    I'm not as experienced in the chemical end as some who have responded, but, I'll tell you how I separate my ultra-fine gold from black sand.....

    I bought plans for a roller mill that is about the size of a five gallon bucket (maybe a little bigger) that I run all my black sand through once I get all the gold out of it that I can..... I bought the plans on eBay and they claimed that it would reduce to about 600 mesh. In actuality it only reduced to just under 400 mesh, but since I have to use a microscope, that's small enough for me....

    I bought a professional "sonic" jewelry cleaner on eBay for $80.00 and I put my black sand in it about 1/2 cup at a time (it holds a little over a cup and a half) and keep adding the crushed black sand every hour or so, letting the excess flow over (add by the table spoon into the center, as soon as it goes flat add another table spoon)...... The sizmic action keeps the heavies in the -400 mesh material moving to the bottem... I ran about 4 - 4 1/2 gallon of rich black sand and ended up seeing gold on top when I stopped. The gold actually filled the container......

    The black sand that was left I proessed in a rock tumbler w/ about 1/4 oz. of mercury for about 2 hours / load (this is a 45lb. tumbler)... I heated the nitric acid in a pyrex dish and added the butten from the mercury press to it and after the smoke cleared I had hardly any gold...... I usually got a nice gold butten when processing with mercury and nitric acid.... What I found is that crushing your black sand below 400 mesh and using the sonic jewelry cleaner removed almost ALL gold in the black sand..... I probably would have had to run at least 50 gallon of black sand to even get a 1/4 oz. of gold after what the jewelry cleaner settled out....

    What's in the jewelry cleaner isn't pure, there's still black sand (unless you keep adding until all you see is gold, but then I'm sure you would still have a tiny bit & you would loose gold in the overflow) plus other impurities like platnum, silver, copper, zinc etc., but it's as pure as you'll ever get it.....

    That's just how I process mine, lots of other people on here have other great ideas that may work as well (I just don't use chemicals anymore, not worth it for what I miss)..... If I could get my roller mill to chush the material below 600 or 800 mesh I think I could get 100% (or close to it) of the micro gold with out chemicals...

    Good luck and hope your pan is always lined in Gold....

    Coyote....
    I'm sorry, I haven't been on in a while. I noticed a few PM's and question as to the type of Ultra sonic cleaner I use..........

    I use 2 models, both for the same reason.... De Gassing Properties. I had been using the one I got from ebay & found the company had a model that worked even better for me.... Both not only de-gas but both have very controlled heating properties (for some reason I get better recovery from the heated solution than running cold....

    They are (my favorite) the Elmasonic S in Autodegas / degasing mode @ 37khz & 65o C. on sweep / degas and the x-tra 70 H at a frequency of 5.6 A and temp of around 65 C. on continious....
    Political Jokes are not funny, but, they usually get a whole lot more offensive when they take office.....

  12. #27
    jm
    Sep 2008
    19

    Re: black sand clean up

    Great post! What model did you find that worked best for you? Or did you already mention it in your last post?

  13. #28
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    8 times

    Re: black sand clean up

    Different acids have different "personalities." If you are using hydrochloric acid, also called HCl (that's a lower case "L" on the end), or muriatic acid (which is usually 31%, and just right for most uses); you can get a filter mask for it at Lowe's or Home Depot.

    One problem with nitric acid is there is nothing which will filter it.

    Both hydrochloric and nitric produce lots of fumes. Usually you can actually see them when opening a container or pouring them (always use rubber gloves and eye protection, in case of splashes or accidents. You cannot pour them without some splashing, even tiny amounts you wouldn't normally notice when pouring other liquids). Don't get these fumes up your snoot! It can make you jerk back and possibly drop whatever you are holding, or stumble and spill stuff.

    Ongoing breathing of dissipated fumes from these acids is not good, it can burn your lungs.

    If you are just using a little bit of it, work outside with a wind at your back.

    If you are regularly processing stuff with them, you will probably want to work indoors. You need a strong exhaust fan in the wall to the outside, and a way for fresh air to get in, on the opposite side of the room. The fumes will rust or corrode any metal objects nearby---tools, etc. Work with your back to the fresh air. Better yet, build a "fume hood," which has a strong fan, with filters, and is PVC pipe (4" diameter) vented to above the roof. Google it for ideas.

    Sulfuric acid has a very high boiling point, so there are hardly any fumes at all. It can even be mistaken for water (label everything!) While the other two acids mentioned above may be rinsed off with water without much harm to your skin, sulfuric will bore down into your flesh, because it seeks water. Especially concentrated sulfuric (car battery acid is only about 33%). And most especially HOT concentrated sulfuric, as is produced with some methods for making your own nitric.

    It's a very good idea to read several different safety recommendations for each acid, before using them.
    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  14. #29
    us
    Apr 2010
    16

    Re: black sand clean up

    Another method that I've read about and that seems safe because it uses household chemicals, is halide leaching. However, the few sites out there that talk about it do not provide sufficient detail -- i.e. step by step details with photos for each step.

    Lowe's carries concentrated bleach, which if I recall correctly is 5x more concentrated than the average household bleach. I'll stir the bucket (half full with black sand) once a day and leave the bleach in there to leach all the gold for a week. My specific question is, after transferring the bleach, which now contains the dissolved gold to a new container, what is the easiest way to precipitate out the gold?

    My concentrates have plenty of black sand crystals, which are brownish in color. If that's tellurite, do I need to crush them to dust in order for the bleach to dissolve the gold?

  15. #30
    us
    Jun 2009
    Blue Ridge, South Carolina
    818
    292 times

    Re: black sand clean up

    This is an interesting thread, but this quote here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace J
    Out of a ten pound jar [of black sand] we got three pounds of gold.
    I have a little trouble believing that. But still good info in here nonetheless.

    Sample till you find the hot spot, then mine it till its gone! Then start over...

 

 
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