to late for some, going up in smoke
- Thread starter 2cmorau
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AuSomeness
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What can be done right now? Sign a petition? I haven't kept up on all of it, but I have been trying to pass along information where I can.
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2cmorau
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fowledup
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Finally, time to put up or shut up. Seeing how fraudulent behavior and deception is the norm from them, I'd bet a vile of mercury and gold that they buy more Mercury than they find. I have no doubt the project will be a raging success, one way or the other. Hopefully someone working on the project won't be able to stomach the constant smoke and mirrors and will speak out and finally expose them.
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I totally agree, maybe we could plant a " wire" on one of them . ? [12 days.... and another 12 till D Day ]
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2cmorau
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SENATE BILL 637 GETS WORSE BEN ALLEN IS NOT OUR FRIEND.
An act to amend Section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code, and to add Section 13172.5 to the Water Code, relating to dredging.
LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST
SB 637, as amended, Allen. Suction dredge mining: permits.
Existing law prohibits the use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment by any person in any river, stream, or lake of this state without a permit issued by the Department of Fish and Wildlife. Existing law requires, before any person uses any vacuum or suction dredge equipment in any river, stream, or lake of this state, that person to submit an application for a permit for a vacuum or suction dredge to the department specifying certain information. Existing law requires the department to issue a permit, if the department determines that the use of a vacuum or suction dredge will not be deleterious to fish, upon the payment of a specified fee. Existing law designates the issuance of permits to operate vacuum or suction dredge equipment to be a project under the California Environmental Quality Act and suspends the issuance of permits and mining pursuant to a permit until the department has completed an environmental impact report for the project as ordered by the court in a specified court action. Existing law prohibits the use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment in any river, stream, or lake of this state until the Director of Fish and Wildlife makes a prescribed certification to the Secretary of State, including certifying that new regulations fully mitigate all identified significant environmental impacts and that a fee structure is in place that will fully cover all costs to the department related to the administration of the program.
This bill would instead require the department to issue a permit if the department determines that the use does not cause any significant effects on fish and wildlife and would authorize the department to adjust the specified fee to an amount sufficient to cover all reasonable costs of the department in regulating suction dredging activities. This bill would prohibit the department from issuing a permit until the permit application is deemed complete, as prescribed.
Under existing law, the State Water Resources Control Board and the California regional water quality control boards prescribe waste discharge requirements in accordance with the federal Clean Federal Water Pollution Control Act and the Porter-Cologne Water Quality Control Act (state act). The state act, with certain exceptions, requires a waste discharger to file certain information with the appropriate regional board and to pay an annual fee. The state act additionally requires a person, before discharging mining waste, to submit to the regional board a report on the physical and chemical characteristics of the waste that could affect its potential to cause pollution or contamination and a report that evaluates the potential of the mining waste discharge to produce acid mine drainage, the discharge or leaching of heavy metals, or the release of other hazardous substances.
This bill would require, by July 1, 2017, the State Water Resources Control state board to establish a permitting process for suction dredge mining and related mining activities in rivers and streams in the state, consistent with requirements of the state act. The bill would require that the regulations, at a minimum, address cumulative and water quality impacts of specified issues. A person who violates these regulations would be liable for an unspecified penalty. The bill would provide that the state board is not prohibited from adopting regulations that would prohibit suction dredge mining, if the state board makes a certain finding relating to water quality objectives, to the extent consistent with federal law. The bill would prohibit these provisions from affecting any other law, including the California Environmental Quality Act and specified provisions relating to streambed alteration requirements.
The bill would specify that a suction dredge contains any of specified components for purposes of permits issued by the Department of Fish and Wildlife department and for purposes of the permitting process established by the state board.
Digest Key
Vote: MAJORITY Appropriation: NO Fiscal Committee: YES Local Program: NO
Bill Text
The people of the State of California do enact as follows:
SECTION 1. Section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code is amended to read:
5653. (a) The use of a vacuum or suction dredge equipment by a person in a river, stream, or lake of this state is prohibited, except as authorized under a permit issued to that person by the department in compliance with the regulations adopted pursuant to Section 5653.9. Before a person uses a vacuum or suction dredge equipment in a river, stream, or lake of this state, that person shall submit an application for a permit for a vacuum or suction dredge to the department, specifying the type and size of equipment to be used and other information as the department may require.
(b) (1) The department shall not issue a permit for a vacuum or suction dredge until the permit application is deemed complete. A complete permit application shall include copies of all required permits, including permits required under the Federal Water Pollution Control Act (33 U.S.C. Sec. 1251 et seq.) and the Water Code, and any other applicable permit required to fully mitigate all identified significant environmental impacts pursuant to regulations adopted under subdivision (b) of Section 5653.1.
(2) If the State Water Resources Control Board or the appropriate regional water quality control board determines that no water quality or water rights permit is necessary for the use of a vacuum or suction dredge, a letter stating this determination signed by the Executive Director of the State Water Resources Control Board, the executive officer of the appropriate regional water quality control board, or their designee shall be part of the permit application.
(3) For the purpose of the Permit Streamlining Act (Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 65920) of Division 1 of Title 7 of the Government Code), the department shall not deem the permit application complete until the applicant submits all necessary permits and any required letters to the department as part of the permit application.
(b)
(c) Under the regulations adopted pursuant to Section 5653.9, the department shall designate waters or areas wherein vacuum or suction dredges may be used pursuant to a permit, waters or areas closed to those dredges, the maximum size of those dredges that may be used, and the time of year when those dredges may be used. If the department determines, pursuant to the regulations adopted pursuant to Section 5653.9, that the use of a vacuum or suction dredge does not cause any significant effects to fish and wildlife, it shall issue a permit to the applicant. If a person operates equipment other than that authorized by the permit or conducts the operation in any waters or area or at any time that is not authorized by the permit, or if any person conducts the operation without securing the permit, that person is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c)
(d) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the department shall issue a permit upon the payment, in the case of a resident, of a base fee of twenty-five dollars ($25), as adjusted under Section 713, when an onsite investigation of the project size is not deemed necessary by the department, and a base fee of one hundred thirty dollars ($130), as adjusted under Section 713, when the department deems that an onsite investigation is necessary. Except as provided in paragraph (2), in the case of a nonresident, the base fee shall be one hundred dollars ($100), as adjusted under Section 713, when an onsite investigation is not deemed necessary, and a base fee of two hundred twenty dollars ($220), as adjusted under Section 713, when an onsite investigation is deemed necessary.
(2) The department may adjust the base fees for a permit described in this subdivision to an amount sufficient to cover all reasonable costs of the department in regulating suction dredging activities.
(d)
(e) It is unlawful to possess a vacuum or suction dredge in areas, or in or within 100 yards of waters, that are closed to the use of vacuum or suction dredges.
(e)
(f) For purposes of this section and Section 5653.1, a suction dredge contains any of the following:
(1) A hose that vacuums sediment from a river, stream, or lake.
(2) A motorized pump.
(3) A motorized sluice box.
SEC. 2. Section 13172.5 is added to the Water Code, to read:
13172.5. (a) On or before July 1, 2017, the state board shall establish by regulation a permitting process for suction dredge mining and related mining activities in rivers and streams in the state. The regulations shall be consistent with the requirements of this division and, at a minimum, address cumulative and water quality impacts of each of the following:
(1) Mercury loading to downstream reaches of rivers and streams affected by suction dredge mining.
(2) Methylmercury formation in water bodies.
(3) Bio accumulation of mercury in aquatic organisms.
(b) A person who violates a regulation adopted pursuant to this section shall be liable in the amount of ____ ($____).
(c) Nothing in subdivision (a) shall prohibit the state board from adopting regulations that prohibit suction dredge mining if the state board finds that prohibition is necessary to regulate waste discharges that violate or impair water quality objectives or other criteria under this division, to the extent consistent with federal law. In making this determination, the state board may consider, but is not limited to, soil types, fueling and refueling activities, and horsepower limitations.
(d) This section does not affect any other law, including the California Environmental Quality Act (Division 13 (commencing with Section 21000) of the Public Resources Code) and the Department of Fish and Wildlife’s stream bed alteration requirements described in Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 1600) of the Fish and Game Code.
(e) For purposes of this section, a suction dredge contains any of the following:
(1) A hose that vacuums sediment from a river, stream, or lake.
(2) A motorized pump.
(3) A motorized sluice box.
An act to amend Section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code, and to add Section 13172.5 to the Water Code, relating to dredging.
LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST
SB 637, as amended, Allen. Suction dredge mining: permits.
Existing law prohibits the use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment by any person in any river, stream, or lake of this state without a permit issued by the Department of Fish and Wildlife. Existing law requires, before any person uses any vacuum or suction dredge equipment in any river, stream, or lake of this state, that person to submit an application for a permit for a vacuum or suction dredge to the department specifying certain information. Existing law requires the department to issue a permit, if the department determines that the use of a vacuum or suction dredge will not be deleterious to fish, upon the payment of a specified fee. Existing law designates the issuance of permits to operate vacuum or suction dredge equipment to be a project under the California Environmental Quality Act and suspends the issuance of permits and mining pursuant to a permit until the department has completed an environmental impact report for the project as ordered by the court in a specified court action. Existing law prohibits the use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment in any river, stream, or lake of this state until the Director of Fish and Wildlife makes a prescribed certification to the Secretary of State, including certifying that new regulations fully mitigate all identified significant environmental impacts and that a fee structure is in place that will fully cover all costs to the department related to the administration of the program.
This bill would instead require the department to issue a permit if the department determines that the use does not cause any significant effects on fish and wildlife and would authorize the department to adjust the specified fee to an amount sufficient to cover all reasonable costs of the department in regulating suction dredging activities. This bill would prohibit the department from issuing a permit until the permit application is deemed complete, as prescribed.
Under existing law, the State Water Resources Control Board and the California regional water quality control boards prescribe waste discharge requirements in accordance with the federal Clean Federal Water Pollution Control Act and the Porter-Cologne Water Quality Control Act (state act). The state act, with certain exceptions, requires a waste discharger to file certain information with the appropriate regional board and to pay an annual fee. The state act additionally requires a person, before discharging mining waste, to submit to the regional board a report on the physical and chemical characteristics of the waste that could affect its potential to cause pollution or contamination and a report that evaluates the potential of the mining waste discharge to produce acid mine drainage, the discharge or leaching of heavy metals, or the release of other hazardous substances.
This bill would require, by July 1, 2017, the State Water Resources Control state board to establish a permitting process for suction dredge mining and related mining activities in rivers and streams in the state, consistent with requirements of the state act. The bill would require that the regulations, at a minimum, address cumulative and water quality impacts of specified issues. A person who violates these regulations would be liable for an unspecified penalty. The bill would provide that the state board is not prohibited from adopting regulations that would prohibit suction dredge mining, if the state board makes a certain finding relating to water quality objectives, to the extent consistent with federal law. The bill would prohibit these provisions from affecting any other law, including the California Environmental Quality Act and specified provisions relating to streambed alteration requirements.
The bill would specify that a suction dredge contains any of specified components for purposes of permits issued by the Department of Fish and Wildlife department and for purposes of the permitting process established by the state board.
Digest Key
Vote: MAJORITY Appropriation: NO Fiscal Committee: YES Local Program: NO
Bill Text
The people of the State of California do enact as follows:
SECTION 1. Section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code is amended to read:
5653. (a) The use of a vacuum or suction dredge equipment by a person in a river, stream, or lake of this state is prohibited, except as authorized under a permit issued to that person by the department in compliance with the regulations adopted pursuant to Section 5653.9. Before a person uses a vacuum or suction dredge equipment in a river, stream, or lake of this state, that person shall submit an application for a permit for a vacuum or suction dredge to the department, specifying the type and size of equipment to be used and other information as the department may require.
(b) (1) The department shall not issue a permit for a vacuum or suction dredge until the permit application is deemed complete. A complete permit application shall include copies of all required permits, including permits required under the Federal Water Pollution Control Act (33 U.S.C. Sec. 1251 et seq.) and the Water Code, and any other applicable permit required to fully mitigate all identified significant environmental impacts pursuant to regulations adopted under subdivision (b) of Section 5653.1.
(2) If the State Water Resources Control Board or the appropriate regional water quality control board determines that no water quality or water rights permit is necessary for the use of a vacuum or suction dredge, a letter stating this determination signed by the Executive Director of the State Water Resources Control Board, the executive officer of the appropriate regional water quality control board, or their designee shall be part of the permit application.
(3) For the purpose of the Permit Streamlining Act (Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 65920) of Division 1 of Title 7 of the Government Code), the department shall not deem the permit application complete until the applicant submits all necessary permits and any required letters to the department as part of the permit application.
(b)
(c) Under the regulations adopted pursuant to Section 5653.9, the department shall designate waters or areas wherein vacuum or suction dredges may be used pursuant to a permit, waters or areas closed to those dredges, the maximum size of those dredges that may be used, and the time of year when those dredges may be used. If the department determines, pursuant to the regulations adopted pursuant to Section 5653.9, that the use of a vacuum or suction dredge does not cause any significant effects to fish and wildlife, it shall issue a permit to the applicant. If a person operates equipment other than that authorized by the permit or conducts the operation in any waters or area or at any time that is not authorized by the permit, or if any person conducts the operation without securing the permit, that person is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c)
(d) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the department shall issue a permit upon the payment, in the case of a resident, of a base fee of twenty-five dollars ($25), as adjusted under Section 713, when an onsite investigation of the project size is not deemed necessary by the department, and a base fee of one hundred thirty dollars ($130), as adjusted under Section 713, when the department deems that an onsite investigation is necessary. Except as provided in paragraph (2), in the case of a nonresident, the base fee shall be one hundred dollars ($100), as adjusted under Section 713, when an onsite investigation is not deemed necessary, and a base fee of two hundred twenty dollars ($220), as adjusted under Section 713, when an onsite investigation is deemed necessary.
(2) The department may adjust the base fees for a permit described in this subdivision to an amount sufficient to cover all reasonable costs of the department in regulating suction dredging activities.
(d)
(e) It is unlawful to possess a vacuum or suction dredge in areas, or in or within 100 yards of waters, that are closed to the use of vacuum or suction dredges.
(e)
(f) For purposes of this section and Section 5653.1, a suction dredge contains any of the following:
(1) A hose that vacuums sediment from a river, stream, or lake.
(2) A motorized pump.
(3) A motorized sluice box.
SEC. 2. Section 13172.5 is added to the Water Code, to read:
13172.5. (a) On or before July 1, 2017, the state board shall establish by regulation a permitting process for suction dredge mining and related mining activities in rivers and streams in the state. The regulations shall be consistent with the requirements of this division and, at a minimum, address cumulative and water quality impacts of each of the following:
(1) Mercury loading to downstream reaches of rivers and streams affected by suction dredge mining.
(2) Methylmercury formation in water bodies.
(3) Bio accumulation of mercury in aquatic organisms.
(b) A person who violates a regulation adopted pursuant to this section shall be liable in the amount of ____ ($____).
(c) Nothing in subdivision (a) shall prohibit the state board from adopting regulations that prohibit suction dredge mining if the state board finds that prohibition is necessary to regulate waste discharges that violate or impair water quality objectives or other criteria under this division, to the extent consistent with federal law. In making this determination, the state board may consider, but is not limited to, soil types, fueling and refueling activities, and horsepower limitations.
(d) This section does not affect any other law, including the California Environmental Quality Act (Division 13 (commencing with Section 21000) of the Public Resources Code) and the Department of Fish and Wildlife’s stream bed alteration requirements described in Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 1600) of the Fish and Game Code.
(e) For purposes of this section, a suction dredge contains any of the following:
(1) A hose that vacuums sediment from a river, stream, or lake.
(2) A motorized pump.
(3) A motorized sluice box.
Red James Cash
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You cant expect anything less from people who think,War is Peace,lies are truth,freedom is slavery.
fowledup
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As long as we don't get involved in the "P" word's of our government or talk about the "P" word we will keep losing- period! The fact of the matter is we have bigger numbers and more money, but we choose to spend our time and money perfecting our passions rather than preserving them. Shaping public policy to suit thier idealism is their passion and they've dedicated their lives to preserving it.
Hydraulic mining was never outlawed.
The Sawyer decision required all miners to impound their tailings and not discharge them into the streams and rivers.
Asmbandits
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I just finished a book on the Georgetown divide, most of the book is a reprinting of the local news paper which they make many references to hydraulic mining from the time it was in full force to when the impacts were first noticed in Sacramento, all the way past when it was regulated. It was a huge blow to the mining industry back then, at the time it was the most practical method and when the rivers were first affected in the valley and the word spread the miners wrote it off as kind of a " oh well whatever" reaction since back then California revolved around mining. Seemed like the miners were thinking we'll if you don't like it why are you here, don't you know what we're trying to do here, and that the affected people were in the wrong for having to deal with it down there in the valley.. From the beginning to the end it was at the time a huge blow and was wrote of as being a death blow to mining but mostly it forced the hard rock and seam mines and then slowly was accepted once people found that these other methods paid well. Even then so some figured ways to hydraulic mine within regulation where the land made this possible.
timberjack
Full Member
Well a good place to start your research would be to read the law that pretty much stopped hydraulicing,,it was mentioned above,,made them build big dams to contain silt at great expense..(not a bad idea, lmho)..what might be enlightening for you is to read about the bear river and its history and the lake combie dam,,,,and see how that ties into TSF and their amazing hipocracy and how the state and fedral (research dianne finstine and her suppourt for the project) support the mecury removal project...reed lukens has great videos on youtube but his lake combie vid is top shelf work.....
i dont think in the curent legal enviroment that talking about bringing back hydraulicing on an open message board is a great idea...there are many exampels of our oppisition trolling these boards to find ANYTHING they can use aginst us.....know what i mean kayakrat?
i dont think in the curent legal enviroment that talking about bringing back hydraulicing on an open message board is a great idea...there are many exampels of our oppisition trolling these boards to find ANYTHING they can use aginst us.....know what i mean kayakrat?
goldog
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No one is seriously suggesting breaking out the water cannons. Unless it's the only legal means. Both posts are intended to point out the absurdity of the dredge ban.
Banning a low impact method by inventing supposed harms. Then vilifying miners as a group for finding any legal means to pursue mining will tend to bring out frustration and anger.
Banning a low impact method by inventing supposed harms. Then vilifying miners as a group for finding any legal means to pursue mining will tend to bring out frustration and anger.
fowledup
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Whats interesting to know about the old hydraulic mine sites with their billboards and walking trails highlighting the devastation done by miners. Is that previous generations preserved them as a living history lesson of sorts. Im sure they didn't intend them to be a right or wrong statement, but a lesson to be learned from and a nod to our industrious nature that has shaped our nation.
The irony of these examples of "permanently" scarred landscapes set in amongst the surrounding "pristine virgin forests" with their huge "old growth" timber, is that if you look up pictures of the time when these sites were in operation 100 plus years ago, you'd realize that the surrounding forests were treeless towns supporting populations of up to 5000 folks. The trees had all been cut and cleared to build the towns and provide the lumber for the buildings and miles and miles of water works needed to operate the mines. So if you ever get to go see one of these historical landmarks, look around and see the whole picture, not the highlighted version the current villanizing generation wants you to see. Despite our arrogance and best efforts of preservation and reclamation, when left alone mother nature always seems to reclaim the land and erase any trace of us.
The irony of these examples of "permanently" scarred landscapes set in amongst the surrounding "pristine virgin forests" with their huge "old growth" timber, is that if you look up pictures of the time when these sites were in operation 100 plus years ago, you'd realize that the surrounding forests were treeless towns supporting populations of up to 5000 folks. The trees had all been cut and cleared to build the towns and provide the lumber for the buildings and miles and miles of water works needed to operate the mines. So if you ever get to go see one of these historical landmarks, look around and see the whole picture, not the highlighted version the current villanizing generation wants you to see. Despite our arrogance and best efforts of preservation and reclamation, when left alone mother nature always seems to reclaim the land and erase any trace of us.
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