Water Rights Taken...again and again

Hoser John

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IWASHINGTON, D.C. - New federal rules designed to better protect small streams, tributaries and wetlands — and the drinking water of 117 million Americans — are being criticized by Republicans and farm groups as going too far.The White House says the rules, issued Wednesday, will provide much-needed clarity for landowners about which waterways must be protected against pollution and development. But House Speaker John Boehner declared they will send "landowners, small businesses, farmers, and manufacturers on the road to a regulatory and economic hell."
The rules, issued by the Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, aim to clarify which smaller waterways fall under federal protection after two Supreme Court rulings left the reach of the Clean Water Act uncertain. EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy said the waters affected would be only those with a "direct and significant" connection to larger bodies of water downstream that are already protected.
The Supreme Court decisions in 2001 and 2006 left 60 percent of the nation's streams and millions of acres of wetlands without clear federal protection, according to EPA, causing confusion for landowners and government officials.
The new rules would kick in and force a permitting process only if a business or landowner took steps to pollute or destroy covered waters.
EPA says the rules will help landowners understand exactly which waters fall under the Clean Water Act. For example, a tributary must show evidence of flowing water to be protected — such as a bank or a high water mark.
President Barack Obama said that while providing that clarity for business and industry, the rules "will ensure polluters who knowingly threaten our waters can be held accountable."
There is deep opposition from the Republican-led Congress and from farmers and other landowners concerned that every stream, ditch and puddle on their private land could now be subject to federal oversight. The House voted to block the regulations earlier this month, and a Senate panel is planning to consider a similar bill this summer.
House Speaker Boehner called the rules "a raw and tyrannical power grab."
EPA's McCarthy has acknowledged the proposed regulations last year were confusing, and she said the final rules were written to be clearer. She said the regulations don't create any new permitting requirements for agriculture and even add new exemptions for artificial lakes and ponds and water-filled depressions from construction, among other features.
These efforts were "to make clear our goal is to stay out of agriculture's way," McCarthy and Assistant Secretary of the Army for Civil Works Jo-Ellen Darcy said in a blog on the EPA website.
The American Farm Bureau Federation has led opposition to the rules, saying they could make business more difficult for farmers. The group said Wednesday that it would wait to review the final rules before responding.
The agriculture industry has been particularly concerned about the regulation of drainage ditches on farmland. The EPA and Army Corps said the only ditches that would be covered under the rule are those that look, act and function like tributaries and carry pollution downstream.
Another farm group, the National Farmers Union, said it still has some concerns about the impact on farmers but is pleased with the increased clarity on ditches, "removing a gray area that has caused farmers and ranchers an incredible amount of concern."
Since the rules were originally proposed last year, the EPA has been working to clear up some misconceptions, putting to rest rumors that puddles in your backyard would be regulated, for example. Farming practices currently exempted from the Clean Water Act — plowing, seeding and the movement of livestock, among other things — will continue to be exempted.
Environmentalists praised the rules, saying many of the nation's waters would regain federal protections that had been in doubt since the Supreme Court rulings.
Margie Alt, executive director with Environment America, called the rules "the biggest victory for clean water in a decade."nsanity yet again-
 

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fowledup

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Good facts and all true, nobody will dispute it, now can you tell us how many cases of any type of Mercury poisoning there have been in the USA ? How about deaths? I can tell you but I don't want you to think I've skewed the data. You can start out at your county health dept. Then go to State dept of public health, work on up and through the EPA and CDC. Take your time and get back with us. I hope you have the same Ah Ha moment many of us have had when you actually question and dig into the facts behind the slogans. While your at it read up on Minamatas Disease and the accident for which it's named. Study the treatment methods they used to remediate the worlds largest case of contamination and it's success.
 

Reed Lukens

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Mercury is highly neurotoxic, and more so when it's broken down by microorganisms into methylmercury and made bio-available, that is, more readily absorbed by the body. 400mg of MeHg is a fatal dose. There's a very good reason why mercuric tinctures are no longer used in medicine, they were literally driving people insane. You know that phrase "mad as a hatter?" Back in the 1800s mercury vapors were used to help shape stiff felt into hats. Inhaling the vapors damaged the brains of the hatters and made them act bizarrely. Methylmercury is more toxic to the developing brains and nervous systems of infants and children.

A little more - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mercury(II) nitrate is a toxic colorless or white soluble crystalline mercury(II) salt of nitric acid. It was also used to treat fur to make felt in a process called 'carroting'. The phrase 'mad as a hatter' is associated with psychological illness brought on by excessive exposure to mercury(II) nitrate. The practice continued in the United States until it was banned in December 1941 by the United States Public Health Service. Although this sounds beneficial to health, the ban actually freed mercury(II)nitrate to be used as a detonator in the then ongoing war.

Mercury(II) nitrate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "Mercury Toxicity" Scam:: How Anti-Amalgamists Swindle People
 

Mad Machinist

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Mercury is highly neurotoxic, and more so when it's broken down by microorganisms into methylmercury and made bio-available, that is, more readily absorbed by the body. 400mg of MeHg is a fatal dose. There's a very good reason why mercuric tinctures are no longer used in medicine, they were literally driving people insane. You know that phrase "mad as a hatter?" Back in the 1800s mercury vapors were used to help shape stiff felt into hats. Inhaling the vapors damaged the brains of the hatters and made them act bizarrely. Methylmercury is more toxic to the developing brains and nervous systems of infants and children. This is why pregnant women are now advised to eat no more than 6 ounces of tunafish a week, maximum, or else they are putting their babies at risk. Municipalities spend huge amounts to treat water supplies for removal of bioavailable heavy metals like methylmercury.
Chronically high intakes of selenium, such as found in mine water runoff, are rarer than bioaccumulative mercury poisoning, but still a risk to skin, bones, and nervous system health.

This thread topic is getting very political very quickly, which annoys me, but I respect that new laws and regulations do in fact affect the ability of miners and treasure seekers to work.
It's when people come out swinging with bad science, or misrepresentation of a huge body of evidence, that I can't stay quiet.

And mercury and selenium have a natural affinity for each other. They combine to form a compound that is unbreakable by any natural means.
 

Garrett424

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The "drinking water" reason is nothing more than typical BS to make people feel that this is necessary. The ol' "scare tactic" that gets used again and again. There are already plenty of laws controlling what goes into the water. This is a Federal "grab" and nothing more. It isn't needed, or wanted. The people know when more regs are needed, as they did in the '70's, when we started cleaning things up. I haven't seen anybody complaining about a problem with these small streams.
Jim

I totally agree.
It's the old "problem, reaction, solution" scam they always run on EVERYTHING. Unfortunately, their "solutions" are always complete overreach and overkill; every single time without fail.

In this case, the CWA was already working pretty well for decades. It's true that the rivers and streams all over the country used to be very polluted just as they still are in many countries on this planet. The CWA has brought about a great deal of positive change. But sadly, the EPA itself has become WAY too powerful over the years and has ruined many lives in the name of "the environment". Government overreach is a huge problem and has gotten far worse over the last decade or so.

When I was a kid growing up in the 60's and 70's I lived 1/2 mile from the upper Patapsco River. We spent almost all of our free time in the woods along the river. (I still do for that matter). In those days three facilities were dumping raw sewage directly into the river in my area; one Jesuit seminary complex and two state hospitals upstream. To say that the river was a mess would be a massive understatement. It was downright nasty much of the time.

Now, although runoff from farming and the occasional sewage spill are still issues, the river is beautiful compared to how it was in those days. The fish and wildlife aren't just back but are thriving. There are Smallmouth Bass, Trout, Snapping turtles, frogs, crayfish, minnows, Great Blue and Brown Herons, Red Tail Hawks, Bald Eagles, Deer, Fox, Beaver you name it. There are critters everywhere. Cleaning up the river has been a truly wonderful thing. There's no doubt about it.

The feds have just gained even more control over WAY more "navigable waterways" than they ever have, even if there's not water present. That doesn't matter to them because there "was once" water in many of those areas.

My hope is that some successful lawsuits will reign these people in but personally, I have very little faith in the courts and the entire so called "justice" system for that matter. They always seem to get what they want in the end because they're all in the same club.

(Edit by mod for politics)
 

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GoldpannerDave

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Mercury is highly neurotoxic, and more so when it's broken down by microorganisms into methylmercury and made bio-available, that is, more readily absorbed by the body. 400mg of MeHg is a fatal dose. There's a very good reason why mercuric tinctures are no longer used in medicine, they were literally driving people insane. You know that phrase "mad as a hatter?" Back in the 1800s mercury vapors were used to help shape stiff felt into hats. Inhaling the vapors damaged the brains of the hatters and made them act bizarrely. Methylmercury is more toxic to the developing brains and nervous systems of infants and children. This is why pregnant women are now advised to eat no more than 6 ounces of tunafish a week, maximum, or else they are putting their babies at risk. Municipalities spend huge amounts to treat water supplies for removal of bioavailable heavy metals like methylmercury.
Chronically high intakes of selenium, such as found in mine water runoff, are rarer than bioaccumulative mercury poisoning, but still a risk to skin, bones, and nervous system health.

This thread topic is getting very political very quickly, which annoys me, but I respect that new laws and regulations do in fact affect the ability of miners and treasure seekers to work.
It's when people come out swinging with bad science, or misrepresentation of a huge body of evidence, that I can't stay quiet.

Sorry, mercury vapors were not the problem in making hats, it was mercury salts. Not to say that mercury vapors are not dangerous, but they are not the same as dimethyl mercury or metallic mercury. Just like sodium and chlorine are not the same as the compound sodium chloride.
 

goldenIrishman

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And yet again further proof that we have the finest government that money can buy. Regulate the polluters, NOT the land owners.
 

Treasure_Hunter

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Politics not directly related to topic have been deleted. If members wish to discuss topics with politics we have our political forum under CM forum.

Agenda 21 is politics not directly related and critiquing politicians or political party is also not allowed here but is on our politics forum...
 

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