Water Rights Taken...again and again

Hoser John

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IWASHINGTON, D.C. - New federal rules designed to better protect small streams, tributaries and wetlands — and the drinking water of 117 million Americans — are being criticized by Republicans and farm groups as going too far.The White House says the rules, issued Wednesday, will provide much-needed clarity for landowners about which waterways must be protected against pollution and development. But House Speaker John Boehner declared they will send "landowners, small businesses, farmers, and manufacturers on the road to a regulatory and economic hell."
The rules, issued by the Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, aim to clarify which smaller waterways fall under federal protection after two Supreme Court rulings left the reach of the Clean Water Act uncertain. EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy said the waters affected would be only those with a "direct and significant" connection to larger bodies of water downstream that are already protected.
The Supreme Court decisions in 2001 and 2006 left 60 percent of the nation's streams and millions of acres of wetlands without clear federal protection, according to EPA, causing confusion for landowners and government officials.
The new rules would kick in and force a permitting process only if a business or landowner took steps to pollute or destroy covered waters.
EPA says the rules will help landowners understand exactly which waters fall under the Clean Water Act. For example, a tributary must show evidence of flowing water to be protected — such as a bank or a high water mark.
President Barack Obama said that while providing that clarity for business and industry, the rules "will ensure polluters who knowingly threaten our waters can be held accountable."
There is deep opposition from the Republican-led Congress and from farmers and other landowners concerned that every stream, ditch and puddle on their private land could now be subject to federal oversight. The House voted to block the regulations earlier this month, and a Senate panel is planning to consider a similar bill this summer.
House Speaker Boehner called the rules "a raw and tyrannical power grab."
EPA's McCarthy has acknowledged the proposed regulations last year were confusing, and she said the final rules were written to be clearer. She said the regulations don't create any new permitting requirements for agriculture and even add new exemptions for artificial lakes and ponds and water-filled depressions from construction, among other features.
These efforts were "to make clear our goal is to stay out of agriculture's way," McCarthy and Assistant Secretary of the Army for Civil Works Jo-Ellen Darcy said in a blog on the EPA website.
The American Farm Bureau Federation has led opposition to the rules, saying they could make business more difficult for farmers. The group said Wednesday that it would wait to review the final rules before responding.
The agriculture industry has been particularly concerned about the regulation of drainage ditches on farmland. The EPA and Army Corps said the only ditches that would be covered under the rule are those that look, act and function like tributaries and carry pollution downstream.
Another farm group, the National Farmers Union, said it still has some concerns about the impact on farmers but is pleased with the increased clarity on ditches, "removing a gray area that has caused farmers and ranchers an incredible amount of concern."
Since the rules were originally proposed last year, the EPA has been working to clear up some misconceptions, putting to rest rumors that puddles in your backyard would be regulated, for example. Farming practices currently exempted from the Clean Water Act — plowing, seeding and the movement of livestock, among other things — will continue to be exempted.
Environmentalists praised the rules, saying many of the nation's waters would regain federal protections that had been in doubt since the Supreme Court rulings.
Margie Alt, executive director with Environment America, called the rules "the biggest victory for clean water in a decade."nsanity yet again-
 

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kayakpat

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I like drinking clean water
 

Fletch88

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Look at the condition of our streams and waterways before 1972 when the Clean Water Act came about. I like drinking clean water also
 

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arizau

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Unfortunately, one size does not fit all. This may be an overbroad action as some in past years have been IMHO. Nuff said.
 

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kayakpat

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yea last sunday I kayaked and fished a 10 mile stretch of a clear running beautiful river, that when I was a kid, orange with orange slimey rocks and foam and stunk. It was a remarkable turn around
 

winners58

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Obama has taken executive action with this new rule changing the CWA
this should have gone through the Congress, as in "Act of Congress"
this will affect land owners, miners and farmers. dry creek beds that
haven't seen water for years, ditches, dry wetlands, 100 year floodplain, are now considered
a tributary. this is a power grab by the EPA and gives them control over 60% more waterways,
and are now “waters of the United States” and would require a permit where none was needed before.
.
News story; With new EPA water rule, Obama again takes executive action on environment - LA Times
.
EPA water rule faq's (pdf's); Clean Water Rule Factsheets | Clean Water Rule | US EPA
.
pre-publication of the Finial Rule (295 pages); http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-05/documents/rule_preamble_web_version.pdf
 

Jim in Idaho

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The "drinking water" reason is nothing more than typical BS to make people feel that this is necessary. The ol' "scare tactic" that gets used again and again. There are already plenty of laws controlling what goes into the water. This is a Federal "grab" and nothing more. It isn't needed, or wanted. The people know when more regs are needed, as they did in the '70's, when we started cleaning things up. I haven't seen anybody complaining about a problem with these small streams.
Jim
 

kayakpat

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no scare tactics around here almost all water supplies have to be heavly treated and filtered, not even safe to eat fish if you find them here in the east.
 

enamel7

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Fish are fine down my way! Except for the 3 eyed stripers out by the nuclear plant!
 

Oakview2

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A good politican never will ignore the the uninformed public, or a percieved threat.
 

2cmorau

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Kayak, need to tighten up that screw, for decades the environuts have been using scare tactics, and BS science, truth is they don't care about the environment it's all about the tax payer moneys
read "Trashing the Economy" Ron Arnold Alan Gottlieb
 

2cmorau

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i like cleaning the rivers waterways with my dredge so you can have clean drinking water, and don't worry about the fish, selenium takes care of that problem
 

kayakpat

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We love what they did to the waterways here and the abandoned mines and industrial sites. The area is beautiful and not so toxic, visit and see for yourself, we love them as we can use them for recreation now. These are well known facts
 

spaghettigold

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We love what they did to the waterways here and the abandoned mines and industrial sites. The area is beautiful and not so toxic, visit and see for yourself, we love them as we can use them for recreation now. These are well known facts

yes pat,there is a reasonable,balanced way to do enviromentalism,so now the water isn,t red nomore,fine,so they can leave us alone now..but it wan,t stop there.
You write that you fished a ten mile stretch in a beautyful river..i give you an example where its heading too when no resistence is given to the extremists and the agenda 21 sheeples..apart from the process to obtain a permit,fees,regulations , in a canton in switzerland its forbidden now to fish while standing in the water,because you may disturb the critters in the river ,and some of them fascists now begin to ask for closing acces to the entire river in the spawning season for everybody.
You may think switzerland is far away but the extremists are the same everywhere,and our both countrys have signed for "sustainable " agenda in the 90ties.
 

Molemann

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yes pat,there is a reasonable,balanced way to do enviromentalism,so now the water isn,t red nomore,fine,so they can leave us alone now..but it wan,t stop there.
You write that you fished a ten mile stretch in a beautyful river..i give you an example where its heading too when no resistence is given to the extremists and the agenda 21 sheeples..apart from the process to obtain a permit,fees,regulations , in a canton in switzerland its forbidden now to fish while standing in the water,because you may disturb the critters in the river ,and some of them fascists now begin to ask for closing acces to the entire river in the spawning season for everybody.
You may think switzerland is far away but the extremists are the same everywhere,and our both countrys have signed for "sustainable " agenda in the 90ties.

Hey Mr. Moderator, don't u think this should go to the "P" page with all the rest of the vitriol?
 

Molemann

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No, this doesn't disturb me. The fact is I, and I'm sure many others would like this forum to be about our experiences prospecting, metal detecting, coin roll hunting, etc. If you have a problem with the government, I am sure you are not alone.
All I am saying is to move your comments over to the Political page and vent there. Not everyone thinks as you do in politics so get over it. You post something like this, expect a response. Like it or not.
Just let the rest of us not have to worry all the time about the sky falling. Point that out on the appropriate page.
No hard feelings. Just say'n.
 

spaghettigold

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No, this doesn't disturb me. The fact is I, and I'm sure many others would like this forum to be about our experiences prospecting, metal detecting, coin roll hunting, etc. If you have a problem with the government, I am sure you are not alone.
All I am saying is to move your comments over to the Political page and vent there. Not everyone thinks as you do in politics so get over it. You post something like this, expect a response. Like it or not.
Just let the rest of us not have to worry all the time about the sky falling. Point that out on the appropriate page.
No hard feelings. Just say'n.

if only we could could just talk about prospecting,dredging etc.
2. the sky is falling,just maybe not in the actyvitys that you have chosen,maybe in the future..
3.clearly not everybody has the same opinion like me and shure also not everybody has the same opinion like you,thats why we are discussing and i am responding to kayakpat .
3.Happy prospecting to you,enjoy your activitys,don,t read it if it causing you stomach problems,no hard feelings too,
 

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