More on Mercury

fowledup

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,757
5,162
Northern California
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT V/SAT
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
This is something I put together a while ago but didn't do anything with it, enlight of some of the recent topics of discussion I think it maybe helpful or shed some light, I don't know. Please feel free to fact check, dispute or what have ya. Something I feel I need to bring to the front and feel needs to be kept in everyones mind as they read this, is that the majority of what I wrote about are Mercury Mines, and naturally occuring Mercury sites NOT Gold Mines. Most importantly I am not down playing or suggesting that Mercury is not dangerous or harmful to humans. I guess my point is that the effects of Mercury and our fear of it, not unlike Tobacco use, is more about money than public health. We know Tobacco use is bad, but there is more money to be made killing folks with it, hence it being perfectly legal to ingest. On the flip side we also know Mercury is bad, but history tells us it may not be having the effect that the folks making millions off of it and the fear of it would have us believe.


When it comes to Mercury, California has at one time or another held many titles- largest number of mercury mines (USGS estimates 500-2000), largest producer of Mercury, largest user, biggest abuser, largest Mercury contaminated body of water in the west (Clear Lake), Worst cases of mercury related mine leakage (Idria, Sulphur Bank and Almaden), most contaminated Watersheds and on it goes. What it does not have is the largest database of case history for Mercury poisoning, “Minamata disease, or Mercury contaminated fish consumption related illness, or fatalities. Why not? It’s common knowledge that Mercury is a dangerous toxic element harmful to humans, and especially so when turned into Methylmercury. But how bad is it? Might it be there are other factors in play, naturally occurring elements and processes making it less dangerous to us then we would be led to believe? Could it be that the Fear Mongering about Mercury is more about getting funding than public health and welfare? The vast majority of articles written about Mercury include the qualifying suppositions; could, can, may, if, might? Based on the proposed dangers, one would think the articles and reports would be overwhelmed with words like; does, will, is, shall, or has. Search the web, call your State Public Health Department, the National CDC, or Poison Control Centers of America. There is a severe lack of documentation. California has a 166 year history of producing, using, and abusing Mercury. Why do we not have volumes of case studies showing the effects on Gold Miners, Mercury Miners, and their families? These folks weren’t simply exposed to microscopic tidbits from a bite of fish now and then, it was a significant part of their lives. The Gold rush era miners used it daily as a tool for their work, submerging their arms, hands, and feet in it processing the gold. They and they're families lived on site at the mines. Thousands of Mercury Miners, not gold miners ingested and handled it while working deep in the earth extracting it. An astute individual applying a little common sense might conclude that after 166 years we should have a ton of concrete evidence showing clusters, epidemics, or stories and reports of people getting sick or dying from Mercury poisoning. But we don’t, why is that? There are countless journals, personal accounts and volumes of detailed stories about the Goldrush era, where are the accounts on the effects of the mercury use.

Earlier I suggested it may be a case of Fear Mongering for profit, let the reader decide; One concerned and caring “environmental” organization has received millions of dollars in taxpayer funding to suction dredge one body of water in the Motherlode country. Ironically it needs to be brought to attention that the same organization wrote the legislation for the current suction dredge moratorium, banning the use of motorized suction dredge equipment. Guess that is one way to deal with the competition. With the passing of Proposition 1, they are set up to receive millions more. There hope and goal is to recover a mere 150 lbs of Mercury during a three to five year project. It should be pointed out that as much as 6 million pounds of Mercury released during the gold rush have yet to be recovered. Remember these figures, they are important- One single body of water and 150 pounds of Mercury in 3-5 years out of millions of pounds and hundreds of sites! Starting to do the math, and subsequent future profit margins? The completion date of this project was slated for December 2014. As of this date the project has not gone into “production” mode and the reservoir is no where near remediated. The project is being used as an on site demonstration piece showing the projects viability and a means of seeking further funding. However, the further funding part does seem to be doing quite well at this time.

California has the most contaminated waterways and largest number of Mercury Mine sites in North America. One of those, the New Idria in San Benito operated for 120 years and closed in 1972. It is considered to be one of the worst. Finally in September of 2011 it became a superfund site. Some interesting facts about the New Idria; the EPA estimated that flowing at a rate of 40 gallons per minute from the mine site, 21 million gallons of contaminated water per year flow into the nearby creek which flows into the San Joaquin river and eventually flows into the San Francisco Bay Delta distributing 700lbs of Mercury annually into the Delta. The San Francisco Bay Delta provides ⅔ of the state’s drinking water. Another mine the Almaden with a rich Mercury history lies 12 miles south of downtown San Jose, it has been “cleaned” and is now an urban park. Clear lake, the most naturally occuring Mercury contaminated body of water on the West Coast also feeds a watershed that finds it’s way to the Delta. Right now there are currently around a dozen major Mercury clean up efforts going on in the state out of a thousand plus conataminated sites..

I have the following questions:
> Is the danger to the public as real as "they" would have us believe or is it “fear mongering for funding”?
> Why is there not a comprehensive historical database on Mercury illness or fatalities in California?
> If our water supply and health is in as much danger as the "environmentalists" would have us believe, why are there only a dozen or so clean up efforts out of thousands of sites across the state?
> Are the clean ups warranted where they are happening, are we remediating those sites posing the biggest threat to our drinking water?
> Are the organizations receiving our tax money qualified and experienced or simply creating a new “green” source of revenue for themselves?
> What are the best management and industry standards and practices for Mercury cleanup, are they being applied?
> What does the research show concerning alternative methods such as non-invasive, non-destructive Selenium treatments?
> Why are we not doing more to promote Public Mercury education and collection programs like we do with waste CFL’s and burnt Fluorescent tubes?
> According to the aforementioned environmentalist organization receiving public funding for a Mercury remediation, project using a Suction Dredge, Suction Dredge technology is the most efficient means of recovering Mercury. Current test data appears to support this as well, so why are we not lifting the current moratorium on Suction Dredging?
> Why are we not promoting and developing grassroots remediation incentive programs using the large volunteert workforce of small scale Miners and prospectors to remove the Mercury and clean up the state's waterways? Who better, more experienced, or well equipped to deal with a mining problem than the miners themselves?
 

Last edited:
Upvote 0

Goldwasher

Gold Member
May 26, 2009
6,077
13,225
Sailor Flat, Ca.
🥇 Banner finds
1
Detector(s) used
SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, .35 gallons of water per minute.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Caribou369--"It's not so much about fatality from mercury, but about impacts to quality of life. A truck can break both someone's legs and they may not die, but their quality of life is going to be severely impacted.

My question is more, given the body of evidence that mercury in all forms is toxic to one degree or another, why is so much effort being exerted on this forum to argue otherwise??

*mic drop*"
Mic drop? Really? We have a WINNER!

No one is saying Mercury in any form is not dangerous or hamrful. MERCURY IS A HARMFUL TOXIC SUBSTANCE AND ESPECIALLY SO WHEN CONVERTED TO MONOMETHYLMERCURY, now will you please let that one go? You are indeed trained well, you picked up on the one sterotype you folks have out of all the other info, which is that we don't think Merc is a problem and missed the real point and anything of substance entirely. My main point as stated earlier is - If it is the dire straits, code red, help stat, be all end all problem your side would have us believe, than why did you guys write the legislation and lobby for banning and criminalizing the absolute best management practice there is for Mercury clean up? Along with that why keep fighting to obliterate and remove the largest, most experienced, best equipped, most qualified, and dare I say cheapest workforce there is? If we are to believe your teams war cries, and call to arms (our checkbooks) than there is more than enough mercury in need of remediation by all, not just an elite incompetent clueless few who have friends in high places. LET THE DOGMA GO and learn for yourself. Hopefully you will one day see that we miners can actually do, and will do for free what your buddies are getting paid to do but can't seem to get their collective s--t together to actually do it, which is FIX THE PROBLEM!
To complete your truck analogy if it were a true representation or example about whats going on with the Mercury issue you would have added that the truck is now outlawed and illegal!

Well said.

Caribou one of the reasons we keep pounding on this is that fact that there is no outbreak of Mercury poisonings....no catastrophe waiting in the wings that we need urgent help with.
Its simple is there naturally deposited Mercury in the state?...YES

Is there "Legacy mercury" ? YES

Is there mercury in fish? Yes

Is there Mercury coming from the Atmosphere?

Are there people dying in any number from it? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

compared to all the other things harming the environment.......considering that there are actually programs in place that allow you to PAY for the permit to pollute.....

and all dredgers do is remove these heavy metals leaving less in the environment(that wasn't actually hurting anything in the first place) to be distributed en mass by mother nature every so often.....


Its absurd how easy it is to see these facts ...yet the population is so clueless that they will allow themselves to be taxed....those dollars go into the pockets of liars and now you can even go to a hearing where the real facts by far outweigh the situation professed by some non-profit....the people get up and speak, and still the people on the other side of the desk vote based on influence......not the will of the people.

So, many side stories are created to pull focus from the real issue.....People will lie to get other peoples money....and if its easy the first time they will try again.
I will keep doing whatever I can to make it harder.
 

Mad Machinist

Silver Member
Aug 18, 2010
3,147
4,686
Southeast Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
OK, so, I'm just going to leave a couple things here...if methylmercury isn't toxic, please go and get some purified and drip it on your skin...tell us all what happens.

https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19980309.html

Medscape: Medscape Access

ATSDR - Toxicological Profile: Mercury

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp46-c2.pdf



Also...toxic levels of selenium runoff from old mining sites, and toxic mercury levels in drinking water, are totally different problems.

It's not so much about fatality from mercury, but about impacts to quality of life. A truck can break both someone's legs and they may not die, but their quality of life is going to be severely impacted.

My question is more, given the body of evidence that mercury in all forms is toxic to one degree or another, why is so much effort being exerted on this forum to argue otherwise??

*mic drop*


So if your told the world is flat and the sun revolves around the earth, your gonna believe it?

If mercury in all forms was toxic, then exactly how did the Native Americans survive in the area? Obviously, if California led in production of mercury, then more than a little was introduced in the ecosystems from natural erosion. And the Native Americans obviously ate the fish in the area to survive. Just look at the whole fight over the salmon in the area and how the Native Americans claim that salmon are critical to their culture and survival.

And if mercury was so damn toxic to all life, then I should be sitting here drooling on myself while sitting in a wheelchair. Grew up playing with the stuff from broken thermometers. And I still have quite a bit here that I use from time to time.

As far as dropping "purified" methyl mercury on my skin, not a problem, let me know when you want to buy a ticket here to Arizona and I set it up. I'll even take an equal amount of selenium.

Like most things anymore, it is easier to "fearmonger" and make money than it is to tell the truth. If people knew and understood the truth, then there is no money to be made.
 

OP
OP
fowledup

fowledup

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,757
5,162
Northern California
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT V/SAT
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Wow fowledup, I wonder where you're getting the idea that I'm on one side or another. I do not write any legislation whatsoever, nor am I a lobbyist for any group, and am an avid treasure hunter just like all the rest. Just trying to get the facts straight. Fact is, I would love to see a solution put in the hands of all the dredgers, sluicers, and highbankers out there which would remove methylmercury from water. If you want to get something done on a massive scale, the best thing to do it put it in the hands of those who are willing, able, and motivate to do so. But I get mighty riled up when I see other posters out and out commenting that Mercury is not toxic, would you feed it to your kids? Drink it yourself?

And now can we kindly get back to friendly chats about treasure hunting? K thanks.

My mistake and apologies if I've read you wrong, but out of all the info I gave, questions for thought, points for discussion and avenues of research for folks to explore and make up their own mind, your response was typical and text book of those that come on here for the sole purpose of derailing and spreading doubt. The only thing that concerned you and motivated you to respond was a perception you have that all us miners don't think mercury is toxic. By the way since were killing this thread and any meaningful discussion that could have come from it, who are all these posters you speak of claiming Mercury is not a toxin or toxic? I keep looking and can't find any examples. I think you should PM them or start a new thread as I know it wasn't me that said it.

Yup, you bet, I give up lets get back to those friendly chats about "treasure hunting"! You start what's yer pleasure?
 

Last edited:

Caribou369

Jr. Member
Oct 31, 2014
68
56
Oregon
Detector(s) used
Garrett Carrot Pinpointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Thank you fowledup for your support on methylmercury toxicity. Dredging, sluicing, etc. can remove lumps of elemental mercury, it's true, but they're not set up for filtering and purifying molecular mercury.
Legislators can't legislate acts of nature like floods, but they can legislate and enforce against things people do. It sucks for anyone who is really serious about recovering heavy metal treasures. ???
I'd love to see a win-win for everyone and don't mistake me on this point.

MadMachinist, I am all for respecting when a discussion about water rights veers into the politics of how much is fair and how much is tantamount to banning an activity. Well and good, we need this kind of debate to keep our democracy strong and make sure it serves the interests of more citizens fairly. but when we start arguing intangibles (can you prove this-ing) over science, things have gone off the deep end. If you're crazy enough to argue mercury toxicity and even put your own life on the line, you might want to get your blood mercury and fat mercury levels tested. Arguing the cautionary principle (if we know this is harmful, it should be avoided) is bat-sh*t crazy talk, man. I wrote out a point by point dissection of your entire post and then decided this is what my take boils down to.

I can get deep in the weeds if you really want...this you know, would you know more?

Last but not least...
As far as dropping "purified" methyl mercury on my skin, not a problem, let me know when you want to buy a ticket here to Arizona and I set it up. I'll even take an equal amount of selenium.
I respect your immense balls, sir, challenge accepted. Let's talk plane tickets, lab work, and medical waiver offline.
 

Caribou369

Jr. Member
Oct 31, 2014
68
56
Oregon
Detector(s) used
Garrett Carrot Pinpointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
My mistake and apologies if I've read you wrong, but out of all the info I gave, questions for thought, points for discussion and avenues of research for folks to explore and make up their own mind, your response was typical and text book of those that come on here for the sole purpose of derailing and spreading doubt. The only thing that concerned you and motivated you to respond was a perception you have that all us miners don't think mercury is toxic. By the way since were killing this thread and any meaningful discussion that could have come from it, who are all these posters you speak of claiming Mercury is not a toxin or toxic? I keep looking and can't find any examples. I think you should PM them or start a new thread as I know it wasn't me that said it.

Yup, you bet, I give up lets get back to those friendly chats about "treasure hunting"! You start what's yer pleasure?

fowledup, I don't like to say a lot about politics when I can't see a clear way forward that makes both sides happy. On one side I see miners with a lot of evidence posted about the good they do removing heavy metals. I see the hoards, I see that people are proud of doing good while enriching their worlds. I don't like that miners are being banned from pursuing their avocation.
On the other hand I study chemistry sites, textbooks, historical accounts of damage traced to mass mercury poisoning. I see that the effects of mercury are not necessarily fatal, but tragic and debilitating all the same, and that the visible mercury is only the tip of the problem. As I said, I'd love to see a win-win on both sides...wouldn't you??

For examples, of members claiming mercury is not toxic, please see MadMachinist's posts. ^^

As for treasure hunting, y'all should know by now I love trying my hand at sniping and panning. I'm hoping to get out and do some sluicing this summer. My friend who just retired to Florida is inviting me out to do some metal detecting on the beaches near his house this fall. :occasion14:

Cheers,
 

LP13

Full Member
Dec 31, 2012
211
216
Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
A lot of mercury in natural settings is blamed on miners, however cinnabar can reduce to native mercury in the oxide zone of the cinnabar ore (near the surface.)
This mercury then finds its way into the rivers.
Here is a link to wikipedia with a specimen of ore that has elemental mercury in it:
File:Mercury-27128.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is from a mine in California if you notice. Oregon and California have a lot of mercury mines... hmm
 

Mad Machinist

Silver Member
Aug 18, 2010
3,147
4,686
Southeast Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Thank you fowledup for your support on methylmercury toxicity. Dredging, sluicing, etc. can remove lumps of elemental mercury, it's true, but they're not set up for filtering and purifying molecular mercury.
Legislators can't legislate acts of nature like floods, but they can legislate and enforce against things people do. It sucks for anyone who is really serious about recovering heavy metal treasures. ???
I'd love to see a win-win for everyone and don't mistake me on this point.

MadMachinist, I am all for respecting when a discussion about water rights veers into the politics of how much is fair and how much is tantamount to banning an activity. Well and good, we need this kind of debate to keep our democracy strong and make sure it serves the interests of more citizens fairly. but when we start arguing intangibles (can you prove this-ing) over science, things have gone off the deep end. If you're crazy enough to argue mercury toxicity and even put your own life on the line, you might want to get your blood mercury and fat mercury levels tested. Arguing the cautionary principle (if we know this is harmful, it should be avoided) is bat-sh*t crazy talk, man. I wrote out a point by point dissection of your entire post and then decided this is what my take boils down to.

I can get deep in the weeds if you really want...this you know, would you know more?

Last but not least...

I respect your immense balls, sir, challenge accepted. Let's talk plane tickets, lab work, and medical waiver offline.

Read my signature and you'll understand there is no "immense balls" about this. I have a very solid understanding of this. I know exactly what mercury does to the human body and exactly how to get rid of it.

As for testing my blood and fat, gets done yearly for work considering some of the stuff I do. And there is zero, zip, zilch, nada.

Considering that a little over half the mercury emissions a year come from natural sources such as volcanoes, exposure to mercury in one form or another can be guaranteed no matter what is done.

And considering that methyl mercury is easily absorbed by the skin, where is the ban on boating, water skiing, fishing, swimming, etc. if this stuff is so dangerous?

The one thing to remember no true scientist will EVER tell you the science is settled. And with that out of the bag now one question needs to be asked:

Considering mercury's extremely strong attraction to selenium and the subsequent result, does mercury causes mercury poisoning or a selenium deficiency leading to neurological disorders and other things?

Give me a little bit to find the studies and I'll put them up.
 

OP
OP
fowledup

fowledup

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,757
5,162
Northern California
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT V/SAT
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Thank you fowledup for your support on methylmercury toxicity. Dredging, sluicing, etc. can remove lumps of elemental mercury, it's true, but they're not set up for filtering and purifying molecular mercury.
Legislators can't legislate acts of nature like floods, but they can legislate and enforce against things people do. It sucks for anyone who is really serious about recovering heavy metal treasures. ???
I'd love to see a win-win for everyone and don't mistake me on this point."

Couple of points that should be brought into this:
>If our non mechanical dredges, meaning limited contact, ie. no teeth, blades, choppers or grinders, or mechanical contact of anykind, only water and the smooth bore sides of the hose it travels through have a greater than 95% efficiency rating for capture aren't up to the task. What qualifies a large cutterhead dredge with 80-85% efficiency and is nothing but mechanical contact, it literally "eats" the river or lake bottom, think PacMan as the logical choice?

>Elemental Mercury is converted to Methylmercury in slow, or better yet stagnant poorly oxygenated water, especially those with thick deep muddy bottoms. Like what is found in the lower reaches. Breaking it up may help ease the movement but is not a part of the biochemical process that occurs in order to convert the one into the other. Fact is even if a drop gets broken into a million little balls by some odd set of circumstances, higher up in the watershed where we dredge it will ball up or sink back into the gravels in a very short distance. It's heavy like gold, it will drop right back out and work it's way to a low or negative pressure point where it will collect and remain unchanged like it has for the last 160 years ago plus when the old miners put it there, or longer if nature naturally deposited it. Odds are we will capture it at some point in the operation as we work the area further. The water higher up in the watershed is faster moving highly oxygentated water with it's gravel bottom are not conducive to the process needed to convert the elemental mercury. Hence the reason it is in an elemental state to begin with when we find it and there are not high levels of methylmercury reported from testing in the areas we dredge. The Sierra Funds plan is to use their "pacman" dredg in an extremely stagnant portion of a reservoir, where they will be chomping it to pieces spreading about what they don't capture and stirring it up across the lake bottom, a rocket scientist isn't needed to figure the subsequent outcome.

>You brought up equipment. We have proven (albeit on deaf ears) that we can do slight modifications to our sluices to mitigate the problems you state. I can think of three cheap easy mods off the top of my head that I'm certain would bing the efficiency and catch rate to 99%+. The Sierra Fund is not using any special equipment as one might expect, it all comes from the mining industry, google Knelson concentrator. Thats the piece downstream from the cutterhead that seperates the merc and gold out. You can buy them all day long from any mining equipment broker. There is one picture in their pamphlet showing the finishing process using a spiral wheel- not what expect for "new and innovative technology" see'em on Craigslist from time to time for around a $100bucks. It's all smoke and mirrors for show!

>In order for Mercury to have the debilitating effects eluded to it takes exposure. How are we exposed? With Methylmercury according to the USGS it is almost exclusively through ingestion of fish. Elemental Mercury can be ingested as well but is passed through the body naturally before inflicting irreparable damage. It takes repeated longterm exposure. So this can be easily mitigated through personal common sense decision making of what and how much we eat. Again how does removing dredgers help something that can be so easily mitigated by common sense. For that matter what does paying the Sierra Fund millions of dollars do to actually fix or mitigate the problem?

>Your correct they can't legislate mother nature although they think they can. But how does any of their legislation based on the facts we've repeatedly presented fix, cure, stop, or help? It's a scam, and a money making scheme. True legislation would get the EPA milkrun programs funded. A trial program that voluntarily took in far more Mercury in a weekend than the Sierra Fund's goal for their 6 year and counting 9(?) million dollar project.

WE are the win win!

I keep hammering away because if folks such as yourself who are pro-mining as well as on the fence as to what is really happening don't see the con and the fraud, we are indeed doomed. Plus if even one lurker or mole reads our discussions and actually uses the previously unused portion of their brain to question the folks they are supporting and it stops them from sending them more money or spreading their crud any longer than I've done something.
 

Last edited:

Mad Machinist

Silver Member
Aug 18, 2010
3,147
4,686
Southeast Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
OK Part 1.

This is in the study and it needs to be kept in mind.

"Upon exposure, in a healthy individual with adequate nutrition, metallothionein is expressed and mercury is eliminated from the body." Now considering the sheer magnitude of obesity in this country, how many people are actually getting "adequate nutrition"?

Also notice they are talking about Hg in fish and high fructose corn syrup along with zinc deficiency and an excess of copper in the body.

Mercury exposure, nutritional deficiencies and metabolic disruptions may affect learning in children

And if you think about just how many products have HFCS in them, it is far easier to demonize mercury than remove the HFCS from products. Wanna guess how much money would be lost there?

Another little tidbit.

Selenium & Mercury Poisoning | LIVESTRONG.COM

the amount of mercury present in food does not tell the whole story. It appears that mercury is attracted to selenium and selenium is able to bind to mercury and decrease its bioavailibility. Therefore, selenium is able to protect against mercury exposure. However, while mercury ties up available selenium, the body is not able to use it to form selenoproteins. Selenoproteins are proteins that contain selenium and act as antioxidants in the body. Nippon Eiseigaku Zasshi reports in "The Japanese Journal of Hygeine," that when a rodent's supply of selenium is depleted before or just after birth by binding with mercury, thyroid hormones that need selenium are disrupted. Thyroid hormone disruption at this point causes irreparable neurological damage. This shows that it is not mercury alone that causes neurological impairment. The impairment stems from mercury binding with selenium needed by the thyroid for brain development. The toxicity of mercury may depend on the amount of selenium available to bind mercury and the amount left over for normal selenium dependent functions.

Still trying to find the report again that was done by Mr. Zasshi.

A little more on selenium and the resultant selenoproteins.

Regulation and function of selenoproteins in human disease

So I will ask again, is it mercury poisoning or selenium deficiency that causes the problems?
 

OP
OP
fowledup

fowledup

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,757
5,162
Northern California
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT V/SAT
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
If the situation is as bad as it seems and in need of such drastic immediate action -where is all the methylmercury? It's been 160+ years since the estimated 6 million pounds was introduced to the Sierra Nevada rivers from the goldrush, why is it still elemental and not methylmercury, it's certainly had enough time to convert? Or the naturally occuring merucury deposits on the coastal range? How about the hundreds of tons of mercury lying unmolested and unchanged in wooden and ceramic casks or flasks across the oceans floor from the shipwrecks going back a thousand plus years? Surely that has had enough time and agitation to create methylmercury! It's fear for funding period, in the mafia it's known as a protection racket! These do gooders are telling us that if we will pay them they will protect us from the bad stuff.
It is not easy to form Methylmercury, it takes specific conditions to occur. Here's the best part- the Sierra Nevadas, specifically the Motherlode region are not even listed as problematic areas for methylmercury. However San Francisco Bay is, remember the Mercury Mines from the San Jose area and the Clear lake Cinnabar deposits up north which both flow into the Sacramento San Juaqin delta and subsequently San Francisco bay. So why is the Sierra Fund and others not targeting the areas noted by the USGS as the countries worst places? That is indeed a political back scratching story not suited for this forum!

From USGS;
Environments Where Methylmercury is a Problem

Although mercury is a globally dispersed contaminant, it is not a problem everywhere. Aside from grossly polluted environments, mercury is normally a problem only where the rate of natural formation of methylmercury from inorganic mercury is greater than the reverse reaction. Methylmercury is the only form of mercury that accumulates appreciably in fish. Environments that are known to favor the production of methylmercury include certain types of wetlands, dilute low-pH lakes in Northeast and Northcentral United States, parts of the Florida Everglades, newly flooded reservoirs, and coastal wetlands, particularly along the Gulf of Mexico, Atlantic Ocean, and San Francisco Bay.
 

Last edited:

Aufisher

Bronze Member
May 12, 2013
1,948
4,830
The Golden State
Detector(s) used
Whites Goldmaster V/SAT. VibraProbe. Bazooka 48" Prospector Sluice. Shorts. Chickens + Goats + Goldhounds. 35' Chris Craft Caribbean motorsailer. FISH OIL + BURLAP
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
All of our science class got to play with mercury globs in elementary school. No plane ticket or medical waiver needed. Not recommended in today's society, but I can assure you none of us dropped dead.
 

OP
OP
fowledup

fowledup

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,757
5,162
Northern California
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT V/SAT
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
All of our science class got to play with mercury globs in elementary school. No plane ticket or medical waiver needed. Not recommended in today's society, but I can assure you none of us dropped dead.

Ours too, maybe that's my problem, I am mad as a hatter!
 

OP
OP
fowledup

fowledup

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,757
5,162
Northern California
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT V/SAT
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
The question is, is how deep down this rabbit hole do YOU want to go?

It is kinda funny that when REAL science starts to come out it's called bat sh*t crazy talk.

For me when the real science comes out it shows one of two things-
A. It's a deliberate fraudulent scam designed to fleece our pocketbooks,
or...
B. These people really do believe what they are spewing, in which case they wouldn't be the right folks for the job anyway, since obviously they don't possess enough inteligence to actually complete the task if it were indeed the problem they would have us believe.
 

Mad Machinist

Silver Member
Aug 18, 2010
3,147
4,686
Southeast Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Ya know what, forget how deep the rabbit hole is, let's just go straight to the bottom and open Pandora's Box while we're there.

Some on glutathione peroxidases that are formed from adequate selenium intake.

The glutathione peroxidases. - PubMed - NCBI

More on selenium and selenoproteins: Glutathione peroxidase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mammalian GPx1, GPx2, GPx3, and GPx4 have been shown to be selenium-containing enzymes, whereas GPx6 is a selenoprotein in humans with cysteine-containing homologues in rodents. GPx1, GPx2, and GPx3 are homotetrameric proteins, whereas GPx4 has a monomeric structure. As the integrity of the cellular and subcellular membranes depends heavily on glutathione peroxidase, its antioxidative protective system itself depends heavily on the presence of selenium.

Natural Alternatives for Symptoms of Mercury Poisoning Toxicity

Glutathione is a short string of amino acids called a peptide. It is composed of three amino acids: glycine, glutamine and cysteine.

Glutathione is a major player in detoxifying the body of many toxic pollutants, including toxic metals and chemicals. Glutathione deficiency impairs the body's ability to get rid of toxins whether they are environmental or the by-products of cellular metabolism. If we have low glutathione levels we slowly become toxic, storing away poisons in our tissues, organs, muscles and brain. We simply cannot detoxify effectively if our glutathione levels are too low, no matter what form of detoxification we undertake.

Glutathione is made by all the cells in the body, and is the body’s master antioxidant and detoxifying agent. In one review, almost 80% of people with chronic ailments were found to be deficient in glutathione. In fact, low levels of glutathione are involved in all disease states.

Why? – because the heavier the cumulative toxic burden on the body, the greater this depletes supplies of glutathione. For example: One molecule of mercury uses up one molecule of glutathione. Since all chronic, degenerative disorders are triggered, in part, by the toxic load, it is small wonder to see why glutathione levels are such an important marker.


Glutathione is a supplement that is extremely difficult to absorb. Most oral supplements are worthless, because the digestive tract destroys the nutrient before it can be absorbed.

Supplements such as NAC can help your body make more glutathione, but the effect is mild. This is why intravenous therapy was once considered to be the only therapy that really works.

According to Dr. Marcus Laux, it is important to find an oral glutathione supplement that your body can truly absorb. It survives the trip through your intestines because the glutathione is contained in microscopic little pouches called liposomes. Thus, the glutathione enters your bloodstream intact. According to Dr. Laux, liposomes were recently tested in rigorous scientific studies, and were found to have an amazing 90% absorption rate. That’s comparable to intravenous glutathione therapy, for a fraction of the cost.

A cell culture study was conducted on glutathione at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical School by Gail Zeevalk, PhD. The study showed the neuro-protective nature of the glutathione from damage due to the known neuro-toxicants maneb (fungicide) and paraquat (herbicide).


So is mercury toxic? Yea on about the same level as caffeine. A healthy and adequately nourished person can handle some mercury exposure with out a problem. Just like caffeine pulls water out of your body, mercury pulls selenium out of your body. So in the case of caffeine, you simply drink more water. So in the case of mercury, you simply supplement with more selenium for a little bit until your body passes the mercury out.

Now that the mercury boogeyman has had his head removed from his shoulders, can we move on to the next problem?







[h=2][/h]
 

spaghettigold

Hero Member
Oct 14, 2013
566
784
western sahara
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
fowledup, I don't like to say a lot about politics when I can't see a clear way forward that makes both sides happy. On one side I see miners with a lot of evidence posted about the good they do removing heavy metals. I see the hoards, I see that people are proud of doing good while enriching their worlds. I don't like that miners are being banned from pursuing their avocation.
On the other hand I study chemistry sites, textbooks, historical accounts of damage traced to mass mercury poisoning. I see that the effects of mercury are not necessarily fatal, but tragic and debilitating all the same, and that the visible mercury is only the tip of the problem. As I said, I'd love to see a win-win on both sides...wouldn't you??

For examples, of members claiming mercury is not toxic, please see MadMachinist's posts. ^^

As for treasure hunting, y'all should know by now I love trying my hand at sniping and panning. I'm hoping to get out and do some sluicing this summer. My friend who just retired to Florida is inviting me out to do some metal detecting on the beaches near his house this fall. :occasion14:

Cheers,
Even if our dredges don,t capture the last bit of it,the mercury is already there.We don,t add it to the waterway.if we can remove a ounce in a day there is a ounce less mercury potentially forming in to methylmercury.

a little sarkasm;hurry up with sluice and pans,before they find out that your showel is releasing ten percent of the annual release of mercury of a 2feet wide creek in a dry year:dontknow:

however,if by some miracle tomorrow there would be nomore merc in the rivers,would the mining oppents allowe to be in the water the day after tomorrow? For the idealistic part of our opponents i think the answer is no. They just don,t want to see somebody digging in a creek and if there,s no merc, there are critters,owls,frogs and so on..

Hope to be in the water again this year .
Happy prospecting to all
 

Hefty1

Bronze Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,702
1,477
[h=2]Excellent thread Fowledup!
I also have a computer full of mercury, selenium facts that I have sent to every politician in this state of Confusion!


Not one reply....sad isn't.

Also cant seem to get any paper to publish these facts, vs The Chicken Little's of the Sierra false science.

And the Fear Mongering Continues![/h][h=2]TSF’s Reclaiming the Sierra 2015 conference a success[/h]Posted on April 29, 2015May 27, 2015
Last week, April 20-21, over 200 experts in their field came together at California State University, Sacramento, to address the issue of the ongoing impacts from legacy mines in California. This bi-annual conference, presented by nonprofit organization The Sierra Fund (TSF) of Nevada City, was attended by local, State, and Federal level agencies, technical experts, […]
 

Aufisher

Bronze Member
May 12, 2013
1,948
4,830
The Golden State
Detector(s) used
Whites Goldmaster V/SAT. VibraProbe. Bazooka 48" Prospector Sluice. Shorts. Chickens + Goats + Goldhounds. 35' Chris Craft Caribbean motorsailer. FISH OIL + BURLAP
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Gold stuck to mercury dime lol 20140418_182508-1.jpg
 

OP
OP
fowledup

fowledup

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,757
5,162
Northern California
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT V/SAT
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
spaghetti gold- "Even if our dredges don,t capture the last bit of it,the mercury is already there.We don,t add it to the waterway.if we can remove a ounce in a day there is a ounce less mercury potentially forming in to methylmercury."

Excellent point, and one more ounce removed that the SIerra Fund won't have removed but got paid to.
 

OP
OP
fowledup

fowledup

Silver Member
Jul 21, 2013
2,757
5,162
Northern California
Detector(s) used
Whites GMT V/SAT
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
[h=2]Excellent thread Fowledup!
I also have a computer full of mercury, selenium facts that I have sent to every politician in this state of Confusion!


Not one reply....sad isn't.

Also cant seem to get any paper to publish these facts, vs The Chicken Little's of the Sierra false science.

And the Fear Mongering Continues![/h][h=2]TSF’s Reclaiming the Sierra 2015 conference a success[/h]Posted on April 29, 2015May 27, 2015
Last week, April 20-21, over 200 experts in their field came together at California State University, Sacramento, to address the issue of the ongoing impacts from legacy mines in California. This bi-annual conference, presented by nonprofit organization The Sierra Fund (TSF) of Nevada City, was attended by local, State, and Federal level agencies, technical experts, […]

Ditto- not one response from any politician other than to sign me up for their newsletter. And it ain't a bright and shiny enough story to catch the general publics eye according to the media.
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top