More on Mercury

fowledup

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This is something I put together a while ago but didn't do anything with it, enlight of some of the recent topics of discussion I think it maybe helpful or shed some light, I don't know. Please feel free to fact check, dispute or what have ya. Something I feel I need to bring to the front and feel needs to be kept in everyones mind as they read this, is that the majority of what I wrote about are Mercury Mines, and naturally occuring Mercury sites NOT Gold Mines. Most importantly I am not down playing or suggesting that Mercury is not dangerous or harmful to humans. I guess my point is that the effects of Mercury and our fear of it, not unlike Tobacco use, is more about money than public health. We know Tobacco use is bad, but there is more money to be made killing folks with it, hence it being perfectly legal to ingest. On the flip side we also know Mercury is bad, but history tells us it may not be having the effect that the folks making millions off of it and the fear of it would have us believe.


When it comes to Mercury, California has at one time or another held many titles- largest number of mercury mines (USGS estimates 500-2000), largest producer of Mercury, largest user, biggest abuser, largest Mercury contaminated body of water in the west (Clear Lake), Worst cases of mercury related mine leakage (Idria, Sulphur Bank and Almaden), most contaminated Watersheds and on it goes. What it does not have is the largest database of case history for Mercury poisoning, “Minamata disease, or Mercury contaminated fish consumption related illness, or fatalities. Why not? It’s common knowledge that Mercury is a dangerous toxic element harmful to humans, and especially so when turned into Methylmercury. But how bad is it? Might it be there are other factors in play, naturally occurring elements and processes making it less dangerous to us then we would be led to believe? Could it be that the Fear Mongering about Mercury is more about getting funding than public health and welfare? The vast majority of articles written about Mercury include the qualifying suppositions; could, can, may, if, might? Based on the proposed dangers, one would think the articles and reports would be overwhelmed with words like; does, will, is, shall, or has. Search the web, call your State Public Health Department, the National CDC, or Poison Control Centers of America. There is a severe lack of documentation. California has a 166 year history of producing, using, and abusing Mercury. Why do we not have volumes of case studies showing the effects on Gold Miners, Mercury Miners, and their families? These folks weren’t simply exposed to microscopic tidbits from a bite of fish now and then, it was a significant part of their lives. The Gold rush era miners used it daily as a tool for their work, submerging their arms, hands, and feet in it processing the gold. They and they're families lived on site at the mines. Thousands of Mercury Miners, not gold miners ingested and handled it while working deep in the earth extracting it. An astute individual applying a little common sense might conclude that after 166 years we should have a ton of concrete evidence showing clusters, epidemics, or stories and reports of people getting sick or dying from Mercury poisoning. But we don’t, why is that? There are countless journals, personal accounts and volumes of detailed stories about the Goldrush era, where are the accounts on the effects of the mercury use.

Earlier I suggested it may be a case of Fear Mongering for profit, let the reader decide; One concerned and caring “environmental” organization has received millions of dollars in taxpayer funding to suction dredge one body of water in the Motherlode country. Ironically it needs to be brought to attention that the same organization wrote the legislation for the current suction dredge moratorium, banning the use of motorized suction dredge equipment. Guess that is one way to deal with the competition. With the passing of Proposition 1, they are set up to receive millions more. There hope and goal is to recover a mere 150 lbs of Mercury during a three to five year project. It should be pointed out that as much as 6 million pounds of Mercury released during the gold rush have yet to be recovered. Remember these figures, they are important- One single body of water and 150 pounds of Mercury in 3-5 years out of millions of pounds and hundreds of sites! Starting to do the math, and subsequent future profit margins? The completion date of this project was slated for December 2014. As of this date the project has not gone into “production” mode and the reservoir is no where near remediated. The project is being used as an on site demonstration piece showing the projects viability and a means of seeking further funding. However, the further funding part does seem to be doing quite well at this time.

California has the most contaminated waterways and largest number of Mercury Mine sites in North America. One of those, the New Idria in San Benito operated for 120 years and closed in 1972. It is considered to be one of the worst. Finally in September of 2011 it became a superfund site. Some interesting facts about the New Idria; the EPA estimated that flowing at a rate of 40 gallons per minute from the mine site, 21 million gallons of contaminated water per year flow into the nearby creek which flows into the San Joaquin river and eventually flows into the San Francisco Bay Delta distributing 700lbs of Mercury annually into the Delta. The San Francisco Bay Delta provides ⅔ of the state’s drinking water. Another mine the Almaden with a rich Mercury history lies 12 miles south of downtown San Jose, it has been “cleaned” and is now an urban park. Clear lake, the most naturally occuring Mercury contaminated body of water on the West Coast also feeds a watershed that finds it’s way to the Delta. Right now there are currently around a dozen major Mercury clean up efforts going on in the state out of a thousand plus conataminated sites..

I have the following questions:
> Is the danger to the public as real as "they" would have us believe or is it “fear mongering for funding”?
> Why is there not a comprehensive historical database on Mercury illness or fatalities in California?
> If our water supply and health is in as much danger as the "environmentalists" would have us believe, why are there only a dozen or so clean up efforts out of thousands of sites across the state?
> Are the clean ups warranted where they are happening, are we remediating those sites posing the biggest threat to our drinking water?
> Are the organizations receiving our tax money qualified and experienced or simply creating a new “green” source of revenue for themselves?
> What are the best management and industry standards and practices for Mercury cleanup, are they being applied?
> What does the research show concerning alternative methods such as non-invasive, non-destructive Selenium treatments?
> Why are we not doing more to promote Public Mercury education and collection programs like we do with waste CFL’s and burnt Fluorescent tubes?
> According to the aforementioned environmentalist organization receiving public funding for a Mercury remediation, project using a Suction Dredge, Suction Dredge technology is the most efficient means of recovering Mercury. Current test data appears to support this as well, so why are we not lifting the current moratorium on Suction Dredging?
> Why are we not promoting and developing grassroots remediation incentive programs using the large volunteert workforce of small scale Miners and prospectors to remove the Mercury and clean up the state's waterways? Who better, more experienced, or well equipped to deal with a mining problem than the miners themselves?
 

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spaghettigold

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Takoda :occasion14:
Madmachinist;knowledge is also pain:BangHead: :occasion14:

Here some explanations(part one) for the study you posted; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM0LdWmKtlo&feature=youtu.be&list=UULs5aKeyOkx87-9q9TCREqg





Maybe some additions to the report and also film later later.

Basicly for me it boils down to how the scientists /rewiever is presenting the facts to the policymakers that are obligated to trust this people.And here the spirits of the involved Scientists
comes in to play.The data ,as a whole(not only the actual testdata but including the whole mercury -enviroment equation) is prodredging.I read also that the rewiever Mr.Alpers has some connections to the sierra fund.Others in this forum know more about it.
Mad,as far as the "ifs","may"and "could,s" concern, they can get away with it because of the...
 

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Mad Machinist

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Yes, sometimes knowledge can be a pain, especially when you have to deal with stoopidity and emotionally based responses.

Don't have a scientific ground to stand on? Run around and scream racist at the top of your lungs.

If knowledge equals racism then it's official. I hate everyone.:tongue3::laughing7:
 

Mad Machinist

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And before I forget, keep this up. We are getting to them. And what I just had to repair is any indication, it is going to get rather nasty before it gets any better.
 

spaghettigold

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Here some more from people who are Greene AND Wise ,a combination the sierra fund and other opponents involved can only dream of. http://www.goldgold.com/wp-content/...so-Miners-Motion-for-Injunction_5-18-2015.pdf and http://www.goldgold.com/wp-content/...iners-Motion-for-Injunction_5-18-15-Final.pdf

These are outtakes from ratled,s posted links in his latest" SB state paperwork " post

I,m a bit short in responses cause like caribou said,we have also a life outside the forum,but you know that too mad machinist ,since you have to manage also your studys.
But we ain,t in a hurry enyway.
 

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Mad Machinist

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Birds,frogs,fish and earth orbit threatened by dredgers?

No, just a way of belief about to be eliminated. And just like a snake, the body keeps moving for awhile after the head is cut off.
And the head is still capable of biting but that diminishes "after the sun sets".

Their worst fears are being realized. People are becoming educated and starting to see the truth. There are a few of us who are leading the way. And as it once was, it is again. When the eco's couldn't control public opinion, they resorted to both calls for violence and to violence itself.

Like I said, it will get much worse before it gets better.
 

The Gilded Lens

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No, just a way of belief about to be eliminated. And just like a snake, the body keeps moving for awhile after the head is cut off.
And the head is still capable of biting but that diminishes "after the sun sets".

Their worst fears are being realized. People are becoming educated and starting to see the truth. There are a few of us who are leading the way. And as it once was, it is again. When the eco's couldn't control public opinion, they resorted to both calls for violence and to violence itself.

Like I said, it will get much worse before it gets better.


You reckon they'd resort to something akin to spiking trees but to our rivers? I certainly hope not! Never understood how hurting the trees was somehow helping them not to mention injuring people.
 

spaghettigold

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No, just a way of belief about to be eliminated. And just like a snake, the body keeps moving for awhile after the head is cut off.
And the head is still capable of biting but that diminishes "after the sun sets".

Their worst fears are being realized. People are becoming educated and starting to see the truth. There are a few of us who are leading the way. And as it once was, it is again. When the eco's couldn't control public opinion, they resorted to both calls for violence and to violence itself.

Like I said, it will get much worse before it gets better.
There,s different types of greenies ,its a hydra .Some are idealistic/extremist ,some make a business out of it,some both and there,s the institutionalized greenism,the 21er,s. I watch them operate with the same tacticts here.
Its very interesting and revealing to watch and compare when you can look at different countries.The strategie with the endangered species act for example Difference here it,s not used to ban dredging,thats not even immaginable to run a motorized dredge here as a small scaler ..,here they use the end.species, or threaten to use it, to regulate/ban panning and sluicing and other outdoors activities.
I was able too read in a local prospecting forum how that works sometimes,it leads you to second hand embarassment on behalf of the sustainables and shows the reality of how these people work and where its heading too.But the really sad thing is they probably will be succesful.
There are several cantons where,in the meanwhile, every prospecting is forbidden,others regulated to death and in the remaining cantons they work at it.

A short recap of the discussion i,ve read. The prospecting forum members where talking about some other issues as suddenly a new forum member chimes in ;"hello everybody,we have a problem here near this river ,we have a couple of breeding eagle owls and the problem is they are disturbed by goldwashers,Just last saturday i saw 4goldwashers along the(entire!) river only 150 feet away from the rockface with the breeding owls..(hyperventilating)sometimes there are even 7! It can,t continue like this,i put a lot of work in supporting the eagle owl population and they are endangered.I already contacted the local agencies and we made a on site inspection and saw also some holes from the goldwashers."

At this point some forum members dare to disagree that they are the reason for endangerment of the eagle owls (remember;5 to 7 panners or sluicers along the entire river) and adress some points,one of the arguments a member adresses are eagles (of another variety though) in another comunity that are breeding above a camping site with hundreds of peoples and are doing well.

The unsustainable forum member starts to show his real face in the following discussion,he says he finds all this opposition is encouragim him to take action against the prospectors and that the days of "free goldpanning and sluicing "will be over in the WHOLE canton he,s at, soon.
(A canton is like a state in the us ,only on much smaller scale)
Note how he jumped from regulate prospecting near a rockface , to a entire canton/state. He continues by mentioning(threatening) that he is also working in an agencie involved (the sustainables)
But to give the story also a scientific backround and to adress the point with the eagles at the camping site he starts telling that in nature there are "synanthropic bird,s"(species that survive in areas developped by man) and hemerophobic species that don,t survive in areas developped by man.
Now apart from the ridicoulous comparison of some goldwashers with a urban enviroment,i had to laugh hard as a forum member posted breedingsites of eagle owls in ACTIVE QUARRYS and BELL TOWERS where said eagle owls where breeding and prospering.At this point some members jumped in to save the totalitarians face.They told him they should continue talk in privat.
Why?Because they know that in the ending ,these people are the ones who tell the policymakers what to do and in some cases ,they are the ones that decide policy.So better don,t argue with him. The proplem is they loose more prospectingground every year to the point that some seasoned prospectors are thinking about throwing the towel.Some even suggest to shut down the forum.


Why i,m telling that here in this forum? Because it seems that this is relating to a global agreement of rulings and standards,that has the goal to,in short words;shut down recr.prospecting and allow only operations with significant economic potential ,certified and surveiled by the agencies,paid by those taking the action(the miners)And in the same time create "don,t touch" zones.Where i,m at, when i talk about significant economic potential,i,m not speaking about some small scaler with a claim. As here there are only few viable goldsites and the money to be made is more about all the alluvial material together in the other sites(gravel and other minerals along with gold) there are mostly quarrys mining the alluvial.But the permitting process is very restrictive and very expensive.After the quarrys have done theire work ,very often the worked zone is declared a conservation area where nothing is allowed,sometimes even fenced. I,m shure that at this rate in 10 to 15 years from now on..well,you can figure it out.Thats why i don,t want to even talk about too much about mercury,it would get worse in calif.(and later probably everywhere) also if there,s no merc because in the end they are following the same backroom agreements our chiefs have signed here.

But we can do it just for fun .
cheers
 

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Mad Machinist

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You reckon they'd resort to something akin to spiking trees but to our rivers? I certainly hope not! Never understood how hurting the trees was somehow helping them not to mention injuring people.

Yes I do. To them the means justifies the ends.

Hell, some Greenpeace morons damaged the Nazca lines in the Peruvian Desert to get a message out about globull warming so pulling some stunt on a river is not that far of a stretch.
 

Mad Machinist

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Mad Machinist

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Here's a blast from the past. Turns outbid was pretty muchright.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29124976/

So it seems that its selenium deficiency caused by mercury "poisoning" that actually causes the problem.

And yet they tell us not to eat fish like tuna that contains 167% of the daily recommended dose of selenium because they contain mercury.

My theory is that the lack of sufficient Omega-3 fatty acids has more of an effect on the brain development of a fetus than mercury "poisoning" does.
 

Mad Machinist

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Here's a blast from the past. Turns outbid was pretty muchright.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29124976/

So it seems that its selenium deficiency caused by mercury "poisoning" that actually causes the problem.

And yet they tell us not to eat fish like tuna that contains 167% of the daily recommended dose of selenium because they contain mercury.

My theory is that the lack of sufficient Omega-3 fatty acids has more of an effect on the brain development of a fetus than mercury "poisoning" does.
 

Goldwasher

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Here's a blast from the past. Turns outbid was pretty muchright.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29124976/

So it seems that its selenium deficiency caused by mercury "poisoning" that actually causes the problem.

And yet they tell us not to eat fish like tuna that contains 167% of the daily recommended dose of selenium because they contain mercury.

My theory is that the lack of sufficient Omega-3 fatty acids has more of an effect on the brain development of a fetus than mercury "poisoning" does.

Don't quite know about that.

I met a guy who is working with a group to try and get miners in South America to switch to non mercury recovery.

They are dealing with mothers who have kids that were born healthy.
These mothers do insane stuff like breast feed one baby..while their toddler lays on the floor pretty much a vegetable.

While breastfeeding mom is burning off amalgam with a maap torch in the thatched hut.

The mercury issue relating to mining in the US is all hype in places like the Amazon... not so much.

I don't care how many fish oil capsule you take . Burning off mercury like that is just plain stupid.
 

Capt Nemo

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Same with what I heard out of Africa. Only that the Chinese are the ones supplying all the mercury.
 

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