Suction nozzle question ????

[Al(GA)]

I have the following set up and it seems I am not getting the suction that I am used to, with the current nozzle (new) I am trying.
This is a 2 1/2" nozzle that has a 2" ring welded at the mouth, to help stop plug ups. This is the first time I have tried this type and it just doesn't compare to the straight edge nozzles I have used in the past. The straight edge type would suck your hand to it and you would have to work to get it released. This ring type doesn't come close in performance "OR" is this normal and I should look further at my set up?

I have a 6.5 HP (5.5 net hp) Honda clone with a P180 Keene pump (new), 13 foot of foot valve hose and 15 foot of 2.5" suction hose , 1.5" red pressure lay flat and this 2.5" suction nozzle (sells on ebay).

Any help/suggestions is appreciated!

 

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[arizau]

I don't know if it is the same but the one I saw has a ring that is welded at an angle so that one edge of the ring touches the nozzle and the opposite edge is 1/4" or so away from the nozzle forming a gap. If you were to put your hand over the ring and seal that gap you will probably have the same suction you are used to.

You probably are used to gouging or hogging the material with the nozzle (that kind of forms a seal on a regular nozzle) and this nozzle will leak around that seal. That gives you the impression it is not sucking as hard when actually, overall, it is but some of the suction is unproductively diverted through the gap when you hog or put it directly on a large rock.* I think you just have to get used to the way it is designed to work and I think that is.....that it probably works best (lets the dredge suction do the work) when held just next to the gravel rather than trying to gouge or hog it. I don't dredge but that seems to me to be the best technique anyway since it mostly allows steady suction and flow all of the time without surges or temporary stoppage of material being sucked up. That effectively prevents overfeeding the sluice too. It doesn't mean you can't still move rocks around with the nozzle, just let it do it's job.

Good luck.

*That is what helps prevent plug ups.

 

[russau]

use a blaster hose and forget about that restricter ring on the nozzle!

 

[Al(GA)]

Thanks for the comments guys ----- Yes, I am used to gouging/hogging with the nozzle and will seal up the side opening with duct tape to see if that is the problem. The ring definitely helps with plug ups (haven't had any) but I also don't have the suction to pick up larger rocks that would cause the plug up! I have a hose to assist in breaking up gravel but not enough suction to remove the gravel, for my tastes. I do hope that it's just the nozzle.

It's been over 15 years since I have dredged and all of my dredging was done when I lived in Arizona. Lots of low water situations and high bench dredging mostly. I am in western NC now and have property with old workings on it and a small creek. Very similar situation but I need suction to punch holes in benches and tailing piles.

Al

 

[arizau]

The gap created by the welded on ring is pretty extreme. Just as an estimate, the total area of the gap is close to 25% of the total area of the 2 1/2" nozzle. I'm not sure what that computes to in loss of "stick to the ring power" but that is the reason it is not capable of picking up large stones. It is well suited for loose gravels but not so much for your conditions. Welding shut part of the gap should improve the performance (stick to the ring power) closer to what you are used to while still maintaining some protection from plugups.

What area did you dredge here in AZ?

Good luck.

 

[Reed Lukens]

Nope... I don't agree at all. With a P180 that should suck your fingers off with the ring on, so... There is either a clog in the jets tube going into the nozzle or the reducers orifice is too small for the P180. The orifice should be around ½ to ¾ and I would bet that this nozzle may be designed for a smaller motor with a 3/8" orifice. So look at the orifice on your old one and compare them. The 15 feet of 1½ instead of 2" shouldn't make a difference. Pull the suction hose off and run a wire back up through it to make sure there's nothing in the jet. A P180 runs over 350gpm and here's what he says is needed for his nozzles on ebay... "They are made out of 16gauge Stainless steel for durability and longevity from Rust. They come with a 2." rolled stainless steal ring welded to the tip for less chances of clogs and better flow when lager size rocks tend to get stuck. These suction nozzles are 2.5 inch in diameter and work with 2.5" inlet suction hose. Any 1.5" NPT pressure hose can be easily secured to the nozzle via the welded 1.5" NPT threaded coupling..
Requires A pressure "around" 110 GPM (gallons per minute) or 6,600 GPH (gallons per hour).
Made here in the good old USA by me, Sam the PoorMan"

At 11:30 it shows our Keene 2.5 x 1.5" nozzle

 

[Reed Lukens]

Actually another problem could be that your in feed hose on the pump is bad and is sucking air. He says you need 110gpm and you have 350gpm so you should be breaking fingers.

 

[Hoser John]

WOW you have almost twice the pump you need and that tip restrictor just pumps up suction at the nozzle tip. Restrictor within the nozzle is usually wrong sized on the nozzle input inside. Might need to drill it out.John

 

[arizau]

Just as a point of clarification...............the picture of the nozzle I saw on ebay shows the ring welded onto the nozzle proper at one point only (not all the way around) and it is supported and welded in a tilted up position so it resembles a partially opened toilet seat over the nozzle opening so there is a partial gap between the ring and the nozzle eg. what water doesn't go through the ring goes around it. Reed and John are obviously more knowledgeable (tubing sizes, pumps, etc.) than I and make good points. My suggestions and explanations are based on visual observation and not on hands on experience.

 

[Al(GA)]

Thanks again for all the feedback guys!
I tried it again with duct tape wrapped around the side of the ring to close up the suction area & still poor suction --- BUT --- I e-mailed Sam (the mfg and seller) and he promptly called me and agrees that I have a bad nozzle. He is making me another, going to test it out and send it to me to replace mine. Yes, things do happen but how a seller handles problems speaks volumes in my book and Sam is truly interested in customer satisfaction.


To answer ARIZAU ----- I dredged several areas of Arizona but most were Roadrunner club claims. A few areas were open --- Lynx Creek and some I found on my own. Most of my prospecting there was dry washing and nugget shooting. I didn't get out as much as I liked because I ran my prospecting/detector store (Arizona Al's) but I do have fond memories of several hunts there.

Al

 

[okbasspro]

Al I wondered what happened to you I grew up going to your shop. I think my wife still blames you for my fever. I have moved to Oklahoma but have claims in Az that I still work. If your ever headed that way I have a dredging claim you can play on. I will be there in October tearing it up with my 4" proline.

 

[Al(GA)]

Thanks for the offer okbasspro but I don't see myself heading back there anytime soon. I am retired and living in the Smokey Mountain foothills. I sure do miss those desert nights with billions of stars, when I camped on the claims ---- that was awesome!!!
Hahaha --- I am sure many spouses blamed me for the fever but we know I just supplied the toys, and the fever -- well that just happens when gold shines in your pan. Wish you all the best!!

Al

 

[Al(GA)]

UPDATE on the nozzle ------------- Sam replaced the nozzle and the replacement works as advertised. He sent me a replacement along with a postage paid return label for the defective one, that is good service. The ring does help as I have had no plug ups yet. That's pretty important to me as I am running a one man operation and the years on this body, definitely appreciates not having to stop and unclog the suction hose.


Al

 

[Reed Lukens]

When its working properly - the ring is really nice

 

[Hoser John]

A good blaster nozzle and a swivel nozzle ringed properly sure makes that gravel fly up the hose...Glad your fixed and ready to tear'm up-John

 

[SandomingoJim]

Howdy Al
Hope the Smokey Mountain foothills are treating you well. It's been a long time for sure. I remember you from Luke and your store on 43rd and Northern. Back about the time "T Bone" made his big find.
I'm still detecting that yellar out around the Sando area. Not quite as fast or often as I use to with the high mileage on these old bones. None the less, still having fun in my retired days. Glad to hear you are still working that yellar. Jim

 

[okbasspro]

Howdy Al
Hope the Smokey Mountain foothills are treating you well. It's been a long time for sure. I remember you from Luke and your store on 43rd and Northern. Back about the time "T Bone" made his big find.
I'm still detecting that yellar out around the Sando area. Not quite as fast or often as I use to with the high mileage on these old bones. None the less, still having fun in my retired days. Glad to hear you are still working that yellar. Jim

Was a great store and owner.

 

[SandomingoJim]

Yes indeed....Al always took the time to answer all questions and was quick to help. Very knowledgeable and friendly individual for sure!!