Forest Service Employees for..

[Reed Lukens]

Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics,

I had forgotten about the fs greenie anti-mining page and visited it today to see what was happening and thought I would share - FSEEE

 

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[goldenIrishman]

I noticed at the end of the article that the greenies are already trying to decide what the best way to throw a wrench into the mining companys' plans. If they do find good gold there, I imagine the fighting to keep them from getting the mine set up and running will be going on for years.

 

[Hoser John]

sic sic sic country when our EMPLOYEES have nothing better to do with their time, WE pay them for, than plot against us...ic sic sic- John

 

[russau]

When ANY gubermint employee acts outside of their job description (they have guidelines they must follow) and it affects you by a citation or harassment , you can sue them personally in addition to their department. and when sueing they for this infraction of their department rules outside of their "rules" they MUST HIRE THEIR OWN LAWYER and NOT have a department lawyer handel this for them at OUR EXPENSE! If they try this underhanded approach you can request that this lawyer be removed from the case!

 

[delnorter]

Along this same theme, I was told by friends, a new LEO here on the Six Rivers National Forest, Gasquet District, is telling locals there is no metal detecting on any National Forest.

This is an area where the entire watershed of the Smith River (in California), has been withdrawn from mineral entry. We are currently allowed small hand tools and pans only.

I seem to recall this question of metal detecting on NF lands came up on the Treasure Net site some time ago. If I remember correctly, a letter was produced from a higher up Forest Service official spelling out that is is indeed OK to metal detect/prospect on NF lands (if not restricted by specific area regulation, historic site, etc.).

Does anyone have a link to this letter or post which it originated in? Any other input is appreciated as well.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[fowledup]

Here ya go thanks to Nugsbunny for original post;

METAL DETECTING ON THE NATIONAL FORESTS
Redirect Notice

MINERAL, ROCK COLLECTING AND METAL DETECTING ON THE NATIONAL FORESTS

It is Forest Service policy that the recreational use of metal detectors and the collection of rocks and mineral samples are allowed on the National Forests. Generally, most of the National Forests are open to recreational mineral and rock collecting, gold panning and prospecting using a metal detector. This low impact, casual activity usually does not require any authorization.

On some eastern Forests gold panning does require a letter of authorization due to the high clay content of the soils. It is always wise to check with the local District Ranger if you have questions. Some wilderness areas are closed to gold panning and metal detecting.

Metal detecting is a legitimate means of locating gold or other mineral specimens and can be an effective prospecting tool for locating larger mineral deposits. This activity can also be conducted as a recreational activity locating lost coins, jewelry or other incidental metallic items of little historical value.

Prospecting using a metal detector can be conducted under the General Mining Laws and is covered under the Forest Service 36 CFR 228A locatable mineral regulations for lands open to mineral entry. Metal detecting for treasure trove or lost items such as coins and jewelry is managed as a non minerals- related recreation activity.

Metal detecting is a low surface impact activity that involves digging small holes rarely more than six inches deep. Normally, metal detecting does not require a notice of intent or written authorization since it only involves searching for and occasionally removing small rock samples or mineral specimens (36 CFR 228.4(a)).
Metal detectors may be used on public land in areas that do not contain or would not reasonably be expected to contain archaeological or historical resources.

Normally, developed campgrounds, swimming beaches, and other developed recreation sites are open to recreational metal detecting unless there are archaeological or historical resources present. In such cases, forest supervisors are authorized to close the area to metal detecting and the closure would be posted at the site. Such closure notices are not always practical in undeveloped areas, and federal agencies have not identified every archaeological site on public lands.

It is possible; therefore, that you may encounter such archaeological remains that have not yet been documented or an area that is not closed even though it does indeed contain such remains. Archaeological remains on public land are protected under law. If you were to discover such remains, you should leave them undisturbed and notify a FS office.

The purpose of the restrictions to metal detecting on public lands is to protect historical remains.

The Code of Federal Regulations, (36 CFR 261.9) states, "The following are prohibited: (g) Digging in, excavating, disturbing, injuring, destroying, or in any way damaging any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site, artifact, or property. (h) Removing any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site, artifact, property."

The Archaeological Resources Protection Act (ARPA, 16 U.S.C. 470cc also prohibits these activities, stating, "No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resources located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit...” ARPA exempts the collection of coins for personal use if the coins are not in an archaeological context.

In some cases, historically significant coins and other metallic artifacts may be part of an historical-period archaeological site, in which case they would be considered archaeological resources and are protected under law. These laws apply to all National Forest System land and do not vary from state to state.

Four forms of metal detector use are recognized.

1. Searching for treasure trove: Treasure trove is defined as money, gems, or precious metals in the form of coin, plate, or bullion that has been deliberately hidden with the intention of recovering it later. This activity requires a Special Use Permit under The Act of June 4, 1897 (16 U.S.C. 551). Forest Service Manual 2724.4 states “allow persons to search for buried treasure on National Forest System lands, but protect the rights of the public regarding ownership of or claims on any recovered property.”

2. Prospecting: Using a metal detector to locate gold or other mineral deposits is an allowed activity under the General Mining Laws and is subject to the 36 CFR 228A regulations. A Notice of Intent (36 CFR 228.4(a)) is normally not required for prospecting using a metal detector. A Notice of Intent (NOI) is required for any prospecting which might cause disturbance of surface resources. A plan of operation is required for any prospecting that will likely cause significant disturbance of surface resources. Normal metal detecting does not cause surface impacts that require either a NOI or a Plan of Operation. People who use metal detectors for prospecting should bear in mind that many of the mineralized lands within the National Forests and open to mineral entry have been “claimed” by others who have sole right to prospect and develop the mineral resources found on the mining claim. A search of County and Bureau of Land Management records should be made prior to prospecting to determine if an area has been claimed. Normally, any gold found can be removed and kept. If the removal of the gold, rocks, or minerals might cause disturbance of surface resources, beyond digging a small shallow hole, a NOI may be required.

3. Searching for historic or prehistoric artifacts: Using a metal detector to locate archaeological or historical remains is subject to the Antiquities Act of 1906 and the Archeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (ARPA) as amended and requires a special use permit. Such permits are granted for scientific research only, however, there are many ways to get involved with organized, scientific research. See below for ways to use metal detectors for this purpose under sanctioned public archaeology programs.

4. Recreational pursuits: The most common form of metal detector use is searching for gold nuggets, lost coins, jewelry, and incidental metal items having no historical value. Such use is common in developed campgrounds, swimming areas, and picnic areas and requires no permit. However, one must assume personal responsibility to notice if the area may indeed contain archaeological or historical resources and if it does, cease metal detecting and notify a Forest Service office. Not doing so may result in prosecution under the Code of Federal Regulations or ARPA.

Metal detecting on the National Forests is recognized as a legitimate prospecting method under the General Mining Laws and also as a recreational activity for the casual collection of rocks and minerals. This policy does not permit the use of metal detectors in or around known or undiscovered cultural or historic sites in order to protect our valuable, non-renewable historical resources.

However, recognizing the universal interest in archaeology and history and the vast public knowledge of such resources, the USDA Forest Service sponsors a public archaeology program through which metal detector enthusiasts and others can help. Passport In Time (PIT) is a national program inviting the public to work with agency archaeologists on historic preservation projects.

We have done numerous projects through PIT in cooperation with metal detecting clubs and individuals. The cooperation has been beneficial for both the detectorists and agency’s archaeologists. Locating archaeological sites becomes a joint endeavor and we learn a great deal. If you would like more information on this program, call 1-800-281- 9176 or visit Welcome to Passport in Time.

 

[placertogo]

Finally, something reasonable from the Federal Government.

 

[Bonaro]

Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics,

I had forgotten about the fs greenie anti-mining page and visited it today to see what was happening and thought I would share - FSEEE

This organization should not exist, it is a blatant conflict of interest. FS employees are paid to up hold the law not enforce their own opinions.

 

[delnorter]

Thanks fowledup, I appreciate the post. I was looking for a particular letter from a Forest Supervisor or above, to a regional or local FS LEO explaining the legality of metal detecting on NF lands as a result a local FS LEO saying it wasn't.

Mike

 

[fowledup]

Thanks fowledup, I appreciate the post. I was looking for a particular letter from a Forest Supervisor or above, to a regional or local FS LEO explaining the legality of metal detecting on NF lands as a result a local FS LEO saying it wasn't.

Mike

Gotcha I remember the one your refering to, I believe I kept a copy of it as well and will see if I can find it.

 

[enamel7]

Question. Do these regs apply to all national forests or is this just pertinent to western states?

 

[fowledup]

I believe the article talks about differences with the eastern states

 

[russau]

the June issue of the ICMJ has a very good article by Scott Harn on this subject starting on page 39."Direct and Constructive Notice" It has a letter written by Clark Pearson and id like to see everyone make a copy of this and send it to ALL their gubermint agencys ,police ,ETC. make extra copys for the greenie wacos guberment people that try to give you lip! and have copys made of your letter that you sent off to show to the green cops that want to cite you and TAKE your equipment! like the article states , just imagin if EVERYONE would copy these and send the off to their local gubermint people / police departments. wouldn't this create a stire! read the article and see what I mean!

 

[Hoser John]

With all the forest classifications, historical landmark areas(not posted), closed reclaimation areas for many miles on dozens of rivers a fella has to be on his toes. I find just going to the local headquarters and getting anything you can get in WRITING to carry in a legal folder sure helps resolve insane issues with FS/BLM/Bureau of Rec employees who try to enforce their ignorance upon you. My favorite--Do you know you are jointly and severly liable for all your actions...hahahaha works mighty fine a huge portion of the time-John

 

[fowledup]

Still looking for the letter, but the rest of thread from the above letter has more useful info as well. Back when I find more

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t.../448213-metal-detecting-national-forests.html

 

[fowledup]

My goodness what a can of worms, apparently it's not a clear cut easy as it seems deal and the short form answer to the question is; "It is permitted unless otherwise prohibited" ......so it's up to the detectorist to find out if it is otherwise prohibited in the area they are going.

Here is a link to another thread with a serious discussion and the one with the letter I believe your talking about, enjoy I think I'll go make me some popcorn now as it may get interesting, lol!
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-hunting-legal-issues/458945-us-forest-land.html

 

[delnorter]

Yes fowledup, the letter I was thinking of is contained within that TN tread. Seeing Alaska Jim's name reminded me of where I originally saw the letter posted. I'll check his site for full context.

I'm not sure how I missed this TN thread on metal detecting. Wow, quite a conversation and a lot of information.

Thanks fowledup,
Mike

 

[goldenIrishman]

Makes me glad that I no longer have to deal with the Forest Service yahoos! BLM is enough as it is. Last thing I need is another alphabet grubberment agency with employees that don't even know the laws/rules that they're supposed to follow/enforce.

 

[Mad Machinist]

When did the fecal circus decide they needed ethics?

 

[Mad Machinist]

Actually, after reviewing a few things, this could be a very interesting ordeal. And the fact that the greenies are wiling to fight this kinda makes me think that the mining company will find something.

If the mining company finds minable metals in economical values, then there is really nothing that can stop them from mining the minerals, wilderness designation or not. But if they do not find economical values, then there claim is rendered null and void.

I have a feeling that the company will find "minable metals in economical values" thus calling into question the whole "no economically minable metals in wilderness areas" thing.

Interesting times, huh?