all miners gonna have problems

2cmorau

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2cmorau

2cmorau

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Disease killing young Klamath River salmon
KLAMATH RIVER, California - A disease flourishing in warm drought conditions in the Klamath River is killing young salmon and steelhead trying to migrate out to sea.

And while in some sections of the river disease has been found in nearly all of the fish tested, U.S. Bureau of Reclamation officials also said Wednesday the drought has left little water available to send downstream to improve conditions.

The Klamath Fish Health Assessment Team says conditions in the river are at orange, which means a fish kill is likely and federal and state agencies need to be alerted.

“Orange is probably underplaying the crisis,” said Craig Tucker, natural resources policy advocate for the Karuk Tribe, one of several groups with the assessment team that has biologists monitoring the river.

Scott Foott, project leader for the California-Nevada Fish Health Center in Anderson, said about 90 percent of the fish from Klamath brought to his center for testing have the disease, called ceratonova Shasta.

Foott didn’t know how many fish were dying of the disease in the river, but said mortality rate among fish with the disease is very high. Fish biologists said conditions in the river are bad this year because of the lack of rain and runoff from snowmelt.

Randy Turner, the Klamath Basin Monitoring Program coordinator, said with low flows and warm water, worms that carry the disease have flourished on the streambed.

The problem isn’t as bad in years when the river is cooler and runs higher and faster in the winter and spring because the current kicks up the gravel and cobble on the streambed, disrupting the worms’ life cycle, he said.

The worst section of the Klamath River is from the Shasta River west of Interstate 5 to more than 80 miles downstream to the Salmon River, Turner said.

Brian Person, acting area manager of the bureau’s Yreka office, said Wednesday that after consulting with other agencies, they could not send more water downstream to improve conditions for the fish.

“We decided that is not the most optimal use of a very short water supply at this point,” Person said.

The bureau, as well as other federal and state wildlife agencies, would continue to monitor the fish in the river and could at some point decide to send more water downstream if conditions change, Person said.

If the readiness level on the river goes from orange to red — which means a fish kill is occurring — there is probably little officials can do because so little water is available upstream in the river, Tucker said.

Even if more water was sent downstream there probably isn’t enough available to benefit the young salmon, Tucker said. And if they use extra water in the spring to help the young salmon swimming out to sea, there might not be enough water in the fall to help the salmon returning from the ocean to spawn.

During the past few years bureau officials have had to release more water from the Trinity River to prevent a different disease from killing spawning salmon in the Klamath. That disease, called “ich,” has affected areas below where the Trinity flows into the Klamath River.

The young fish dying from the ceratonova Shasta in the Klamath River are upstream of its confluence with the Trinity River, Turner said.

It is likely a large percentage of this year’s salmon hatch will not make it out to sea, which means there will be fewer adult salmon returning back upstream to spawn in three years, Tucker said.

“I think we’re definitely going to take a hit when the adults return,” he said.
____________________________________________________________

In spite of California Dredgers receiving the blame and ultimately the illegal penalties as imposed by authorities...........Salmon are dying again in the Klamath River.

Warm water has returned, just as predicted by dredgers, but there's nobody left to harass, arrest nor make an example of. There seems to be a point whereby even the nuttiest anti-dredging scientist or indian culture can't point a finger at another person other than themselves.

What has been the pursuit of the dredging moratorium the past several years? Salmon survival.

They aren't surviving. It's today only spring. How blatantly wrong will the indian culture prove itself to be?

The People of California can no longer stupidly support the fantasies and falacies of the Karuk leaders. The California state agencies such as CDFW are operating outside the Federal and State constitutions.

We're not allowed to vote on CDFW policies nor Karuk dreams. But we can conduct peaceful civil-disobedience. WE can openly and publicly trounce the realities of the anti-dredging factions. Judge Ochoa wants energy, he needs to feel the damage dredgers have endured. He knows the Siskiyou County jail won't harm us. He knows we've been victimized. He's listening for our outrage to be sparked.
 

fowledup

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Maybe the state will give the Sierra Fund a few more tax payer funded millions to dredge out some cooling pools!
 

goldog

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If we're going to come up with ideas here's one. Miners will volunteer to come turn over the gravel and create cooling ponds. For free.
 

fowledup

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If we're going to come up with ideas here's one. Miners will volunteer to come turn over the gravel and create cooling ponds. For free.

Nah! not near enough waste, greed, corruption or improper distribution of public money.
 

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2cmorau

2cmorau

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A message from Heather.


hey all ya Auburn miners


Pioneer Mining Supplies

We over here at Pioneer are just pumped about this upcoming weekends event. My heart if full of love a pride not only to the community that has jumped with excitement over the event. Most importantly the support of our mining community and people willing to give up a day and pass on the skills they have learned with a future upcoming generation of miners. I had an idea to fill a bucket up with some of the different types of trash miners pull up to show the positive effects we have. For all of our volunteers for the event. If you have some lead, junk or things you have pulled out recently while out mining throw it in with your sluice boxes and buckets and bring them out. That way we can show them what we do is not just about the gold. It would be greatly appreciated.
 

goldenIrishman

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Well it just goes to show that the voters in California need to get some people with brains in the state senate. It's been proven that any time you give an agency more power, they're going to abuse that power. Allen could hardly get the lies out of his mouth without choking on them. I'd give him a A+ on lying with a straight face, but a F- on public speaking.

The two senators speaking in opposition were well spoken and to the point. They were well informed on the issue at hand and it is easy to see that they had done their homework. I have a feeling that those that voted in favor of passing this so called bill had no interest in the bill one way or the other and went along with Allen for what ever reason.

The Miners of the western states need to band together into a single unit. That unit needs to spread the word to all their friends to make them aware of the issue(s) that will effect everyone in time. Once they get rid of us miners, Fishermen, off-roaders, hikers etc are going to be next on the chopping block of "public safety". If we don't reign these people in, they will eventually take every freedom we have. They don't care that we have laws in place to protect mining. They want power over everything and will stop at nothing to get it. As California goes, so goes the rest of the west in time. We've already seen this cancer of greed and power hunting starting to spread to other states and it has to be stopped before we can't breathe without a special permit from one agency or another.
 

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2cmorau

2cmorau

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Well it just goes to show that the voters in California need to get some people with brains in the state senate. It's been proven that any time you give an agency more power, they're going to abuse that power. Allen could hardly get the lies out of his mouth without choking on them. I'd give him a A+ on lying with a straight face, but a F- on public speaking.

The two senators speaking in opposition were well spoken and to the point. They were well informed on the issue at hand and it is easy to see that they had done their homework. I have a feeling that those that voted in favor of passing this so called bill had no interest in the bill one way or the other and went along with Allen for what ever reason.

The Miners of the western states need to band together into a single unit. That unit needs to spread the word to all their friends to make them aware of the issue(s) that will effect everyone in time. Once they get rid of us miners, Fishermen, off-roaders, hikers etc are going to be next on the chopping block of "public safety". If we don't reign these people in, they will eventually take every freedom we have. They don't care that we have laws in place to protect mining. They want power over everything and will stop at nothing to get it. As California goes, so goes the rest of the west in time. We've already seen this cancer of greed and power hunting starting to spread to other states and it has to be stopped before we can't breathe without a special permit from one agency or another.


toot yur horn well said
those that voted in favor of this bill most likely were never contacted by the local miners in their district, disputing the claims made by Allen
i know, last election i ask thoise that were running what there position was on the ban, some replied that they were not aware there was a ban on suction dredging
until all miners get involed, we will be puised off the rivers
 

Clay Diggins

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The Miners of the western states need to band together into a single unit. That unit needs to spread the word to all their friends to make them aware of the issue(s) that will effect everyone in time.

Miners have had such an organization for 120 years. They are extremely effective and educate their members as well as winning many important mining cases. Let's not reinvent the wheel.


American Exploration & Mining Association
(formerly known as the Northwest Mining Association until 2013) is a 120 year old, 2,500 member, non-profit, non-partisan trade association based in Spokane, Washington. AEMA members reside in 42 states and are actively involved in prospecting, exploring, mining, and reclamation closure activities on USFS administered lands, especially in the West. Our diverse membership includes every facet of the mining industry including geology, exploration, mining, engineering, equipment manufacturing, technical services, and sales of equipment and supplies. AEMA’s broad membership represents a true cross-section of the American mining community from small miners and exploration geologists to both junior and large mining companies. More than 90% of our members are small businesses or work for small businesses. Most of our members are individual citizens.

Heavy Pans
 

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2cmorau

2cmorau

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Clay Diggins

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I know Heather and all these miners are trying their best to make the point that small miners clean their workings but I really have to question the plan to show the junk you collected.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of those you are trying to gain support from. It goes like this for your average caring but busy Sacramento, Redding, San Diego voter:

They have been "educated" that miners are mean, rough, dirty people who ruin the environments they mine in.

You show them pictures of rough, dirty miners with piles of trash next to them.

Now in your plan those undecided voters/potential supporters, after viewing miners next to piles of trash, are now going to understand that miners are really clean caring stewards of the land? Read the above again if you are wondering what my point is...

Does the company trying to sell you a diarrhea cure show you what you are trying to prevent or do they show you a bunch of happy people who no longer worry about that problem?

I would suggest if you want a visual to entice supporters to your cause you should show them a pristine river that has been heavily mined. There must be several dozen to pick from in your local area. Show them all the beautiful spots they like to picnic and camp at and describe to them just how much mining the area has been through.

Show them just how little good mining affects the land. Don't show them their own diarrhea. You won't make any friends that way.

If you want to have some fun with this use the same pictures Sierra Club and many of the other organizations use to raise funds. Most of those pictures are provided free to the public by the land management agencies. In California it shouldn't be too hard to find some "pristine" stretches of river that have been heavily mined in the past.

Heavy Pans
 

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Goldwasher

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When I saw a picture of the pile of trash that someone in East Fork San Gabriel posted trying to get volunteers to help clean up the area....it just made me not want ANYONE in that area anymore....and I'm a Miner and don't want land taken....but, it's all perception....my instant thought was not how good it would be to clean it but, how shameful it was that it was left there in the first place!!! So, many 5 gallon buckets and obvious miners gear!....I agree with Clay you can't un-see certain photo's and so much can be spun!

Like the Idea of a dredge in in some California spot.....Like we need pictures of a mile of river(or less as I've heard proposed)...with 10...15...50!!!!!!!!! Dredges in it...Giving the greenies a picture to use against us for all time.

Don't get me wrong I know we do clean up stuff and it's important and should be noted....and credit given....But,it is all in how it will be perceived and how it will be used..If a bunch of "mining related"...items end up in pictures as "abandoned" it just gives ammo....and if we show pics of the everyday trash all the flatlanders leave....no one will really care.... Unless its some doo good group out of Grass Valley....otherwise no one is gonna care. IMHO
 

Nitric

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How is suction dredging anymore harmful to the rivers or environment than the rain and water run off that ends up in the water ways. From buildings, parking lots, streets etc... Haven't spent much time in the west, but I have seen whole river bottoms change after a rain. Boulders half the size of a car(ok, ok, maybe not that big, but you get the point) that moved down the river and huge trees roots and all. So I fail to see how a suction dredge and even 50 guys in a mile stretch that is going to have any stronger effect than natural moving bottoms.

Keeping it vague to stay within rules.....This kind of stuff is not just effecting miners. The Brain pollution is effecting everyone and every part of our lives.

Seems like Most people with outdoors interests, or that value their rights are the most conscious about impact.
 

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fowledup

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Good points- trash and miner = trashy miner in the mind. By showing the trash we are in effect "owning" it, all they see is an admission of guilt that we are part of the problem. I agree with Barry 110% show them coexistence that is undeniable and immune from "the spin". Show a stretch of river along with a historical print out of claims going back a hundred years. Show them pictures of Salmon thriving in dredge pools or fish feeding in a dredge plume. Show pictures of a forest where a town and mine used to be not an " interpretive park" where a well preserved Hydraulic mine site was. Show a picture of a picnic, and wildlife at Sutters mill and park. Show pictures of families and kids engaging in mining. Stick with the positives that can't be used against us or twisted. How do you twist a photo of a bunch of kids laughing and smiling from ear to ear covered in mud playing in a river with a gold pan and shovel? If you try you'll look like a jackass. We are too defiant, we tend to play into their hand and focus on defending what lies they throw at us instead of leading with a proactive campaign. We desperately need an image makeover.
 

fowledup

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How is suction dredging anymore harmful to the rivers or environment than the rain and water run off that ends up in the water ways. From buildings, parking lots, streets etc... Haven't spent much time in the west, but I have seen whole river bottoms change after a rain. Boulders half the size of a car that moved down the river and huge trees roots and all.
It's not and that is the point, we spend way too much time bogged down in defending ourselves from their accusations (in effect owning them), when we should be taking a page from their playbook, and in a matter of fact how could it be otherwise way, say "your wrong" and move on with efforts that boost the publics perception of us and show only the positives that come from what we do.
 

Goldwasher

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How is suction dredging anymore harmful to the rivers or environment than the rain and water run off that ends up in the water ways. From buildings, parking lots, streets etc... Haven't spent much time in the west, but I have seen whole river bottoms change after a rain. Boulders half the size of a car(ok, ok, maybe not that big, but you get the point) that moved down the river and huge trees roots and all. So I fail to see how a suction dredge and even 50 guys in a mile stretch that is going to have any stronger effect than natural moving bottoms.

Keeping it vague to stay within rules.....This kind of stuff is not just effecting miners. The Brain pollution is effecting everyone and every part of our lives.

Seems like Most people with outdoors interests, or that value their rights are the most conscious about impact.

All true and believe us those points are all brought up constantly.....but, when "they" set their minds to something....facts don't matter
 

Nitric

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All true and believe us those points are all brought up constantly.....but, when "they" set their minds to something....facts don't matter

I'm caught in an era where you can't do what your parents or grandparents talked about doing. It's frustrating! From small business to hobbies and interests without a book of permits and fees, laws that bring you in a complete circle.

I've always wanted to go west and mine, as a hobby. I haven't made it there yet. I hate to see more and more of it taken away or end before I get there!!:laughing7: Anyhow, kind of off topic...
 

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