Question to Mods

[IdahoJake]

What rules were violated in the "Dredging Kills Salmon" thread that was locked.

I've seen this type of activity taking place since I was a young boy...not only with Salmon or Steelhead fishing, but deer and elk harvesting. Is telling the truth and exposing it "against the rules"? Thanks for your time.

IdahoJake

 

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[Goldwasher]

I made every effort to be as respectful as possible to the US's
native Americans, and specifically pointed out that the problem
stems from only a few tribes whose members have chosen to
ignore the science and take all they can, no matter the future
issues that will result as a direct result of their actions.

The site rules here on TNet do make it very difficult to discuss
a subject like this, because no matter how you slice it, there are
passionate emotions involved.

I do apologize if my comments failed to meet the standard of
the rules.

What America needs to realize is that the loss of our migratory
fish stocks results in a whole cascade of problems down the line.
It's not just about having fish for the dinner table, as the lack
of fish affects everything in the system. Eagles come to eat dead
Chum salmon...and find no salmon to eat. Raccoon's, possum,
skunks, weasels, bear, martin, mink and a host of other birds and
4 legged critters survive cold winters because there is salmon
there to eat.

And yes, in order to try and save what is left there are serious
restrictions on any use of creeks or rivers. Hell, I've seen salmon
spawning 2 miles up a creek that was no more than a fat trickle
of water...you'd never expect them there, but there they were.

BTW, it's not just the native tribes, but also commercial fishermen
(making a living) who catch these fish all the way up to Alaska, and
then hammer them again when they come back down the coast
to spawn again in their home rivers.

If the salmon populations were booming, we wouldn't see 10% of the
prospecting and mining restrictions we see now.

The "evil" here is not the native tribes, nor commercial fishermen,
but greed among the same.

IDK....I'd say nowadays if your a "Commercial Fisherman" your likely to be "HAMMERING" nails more so than fish......

and a good deal of the problems come from shore as noted previously!! But, I know what your saying and you guys live a lot closer to the real situation.

The thing I don't like about the sovereign nation double standard, is the fact that we are basically letting people from another nation break rules that good people of our nation would follow for the sake of real rational conservation and stewardship. And to hide it under the guise of sustenance and spirituality...shameful

The notion that you can manage salmon fisheries with large stocks not being managed at all within the fishery itself is ABSURD. Therefore there are a lot of over paid people sitting at desks and making terrible budgets.. essentially planned waste and they are in charge of OUR FISH AND WILDLIFE...

someone should look into what those dredgers are up to this is getting complicated

 

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[fowledup]

Quadruple like GW!

 

[Bonaro]

Ah come on---YES! I was Joking, it was a reference to jumping to conclusions, following sterotypes and automatically "going there" making assumptions. I do have some Cajun roots, and lots of family living in La. and no that is not SoCal "LA"

This has not been a good day of posting for me!

I figured you were joking but wasn't sure which is why I asked instead of jumping to another conclusion...LOL

 

[Bonaro]

I made every effort to be as respectful as possible to the US's
native Americans, and specifically pointed out that the problem
stems from only a few tribes whose members have chosen to
ignore the science and take all they can, no matter the future
issues that will result as a direct result of their actions.

The site rules here on TNet do make it very difficult to discuss
a subject like this, because no matter how you slice it, there are
passionate emotions involved.

I do apologize if my comments failed to meet the standard of
the rules.

What America needs to realize is that the loss of our migratory
fish stocks results in a whole cascade of problems down the line.
It's not just about having fish for the dinner table, as the lack
of fish affects everything in the system. Eagles come to eat dead
Chum salmon...and find no salmon to eat. Raccoon's, possum,
skunks, weasels, bear, martin, mink and a host of other birds and
4 legged critters survive cold winters because there is salmon
there to eat.

And yes, in order to try and save what is left there are serious
restrictions on any use of creeks or rivers. Hell, I've seen salmon
spawning 2 miles up a creek that was no more than a fat trickle
of water...you'd never expect them there, but there they were.

BTW, it's not just the native tribes, but also commercial fishermen
(making a living) who catch these fish all the way up to Alaska, and
then hammer them again when they come back down the coast
to spawn again in their home rivers.

If the salmon populations were booming, we wouldn't see 10% of the
prospecting and mining restrictions we see now.

The "evil" here is not the native tribes, nor commercial fishermen,
but greed among the same.

I do not believe any of my remarks were outside of forum rules except maybe for being slightly off topic.
Expressing the true state of the matter and refusing to hide behind a PC curtain is not racist or disrespectful. It is honest.
My opinion is formed from personal experience and remains unchanged until I see a reason to reconsider.

 

[nh.nugget]

Bonaro, being from NH. I hear you. the one thing we aren't in NH. is politically correct. Our up bringing taught us an ace is an ace and a spade is a spade and call it as such. DR. Phil summed it up best He said the world is SO politically correct they are stupid! Sorry in advance if I offend any body.

 

[DizzyDigger]

I do not believe any of my remarks were outside of forum rules except maybe for being slightly off topic.
Expressing the true state of the matter and refusing to hide behind a PC curtain is not racist or disrespectful. It is honest.
My opinion is formed from personal experience and remains unchanged until I see a reason to reconsider.

Bonaro, being from NH. I hear you. the one thing we aren't in NH. is politically correct.
Our up bringing taught us an ace is an ace and a spade is a spade and call it as such. DR. Phil summed it up best He
said the world is SO politically correct they are stupid! Sorry in advance if I offend any body.

I don't think your comments were bad, either, and I am in agreement with both of ya
regarding the direction of the world today. Still, we can't blame the tribal members for
what their fishermen do..those fishermen are out for their own gain.

That said, TNet is a privately owned site, the owners set the rules, and
we agree to follow them when we sign up. I know we all try and discuss
this kinda thing within the rules, but yeah, it's damn near impossible.

I am pretty close to the action though...took this pic of our backyard from
my back deck..that's the Skagit you see. Bottom left of the pic is one of the
better salmon holes on the entire river...

 

[Bonaro]

I don't think your comments were bad, either, and I am in agreement with both of ya
regarding the direction of the world today. Still, we can't blame the tribal members for
what their fishermen do..those fishermen are out for their own gain.

snip

If it were only the fishermen...
Poaching
Embezzeling
Fraud

Like I said, until I see reason to reconsider...

 

[arizau]

This may veer a little off topic....One thing that is missing in this discussion but mentioned in the one that inspired this one is that the fish were apparently caught for the sole purpose of stripping the females of roe for sale. I seriously doubt that the original treaty agreement/concesession was to allow for netting of the fish for this single purpose and that it was actually to allow for "traditional/historical" subsistance harvest of the fish for human consumption by the tribes and more historically recent, for sale to others. Now that it (roe harvest alone) apparently has gone on for a while it may be grandfathered but if not it probably can and should be changed, by the Fed's, in the name of conservation. Where are the envirowackos on this topic

 

[DizzyDigger]

Gents, this topic has been beat to death on every fishing forum on
the west coast, so our discussion of it here isn't going to change a thing.

Bonaro: I agree with you 100%, but then, as said, we are a lot closer to
the issue than the rest of the country. In all cases, this still comes back
to an individual being greedy and abusing the power they've been given.
As for fishing, the local tribe driftnets right in my backyard, and we've
got to listen to their noisy sleds running up and down the river 24/7 until
they quit.

Yeah...I'm passionate about the issue as well; wife and I have even been
talking about moving down to So. Oregon..just not sure we wanna give
up the place we have.

Might be best we just let this issue slide, as it doesn't do anybody good
if the mod's have to close or delete a thread.

 

[Oregon Viking]

I don't think your comments were bad, either, and I am in agreement with both of ya
regarding the direction of the world today. Still, we can't blame the tribal members for
what their fishermen do..those fishermen are out for their own gain.

That said, TNet is a privately owned site, the owners set the rules, and
we agree to follow them when we sign up. I know we all try and discuss
this kinda thing within the rules, but yeah, it's damn near impossible.

I am pretty close to the action though...took this pic of our backyard from
my back deck..that's the Skagit you see. Bottom left of the pic is one of the
better salmon holes on the entire river...

View attachment 1240822

You got it made Dizz!!
Steelhead too? My favorite. I hope you have a comfortable chair, small gazebo and a fire ring and grill set up there.
Cooler too.

 

[Bonaro]

Gents, this topic has been beat to death on every fishing forum on
the west coast, so our discussion of it here isn't going to change a thing.

Bonaro: I agree with you 100%, but then, as said, we are a lot closer to
the issue than the rest of the country. In all cases, this still comes back
to an individual being greedy and abusing the power they've been given.
As for fishing, the local tribe driftnets right in my backyard, and we've
got to listen to their noisy sleds running up and down the river 24/7 until
they quit.

Yeah...I'm passionate about the issue as well; wife and I have even been
talking about moving down to So. Oregon..just not sure we wanna give
up the place we have.

Might be best we just let this issue slide, as it doesn't do anybody good
if the mod's have to close or delete a thread.

I suppose you are right, Dizzy. When we see inequities and abuses the best approach is to sit down and remain silent.
I am sure the government will make everything alright in their own time.

 

[fowledup]

I suppose you are right, Dizzy. When we see inequities and abuses the best approach is to sit down and remain silent.
I am sure the government will make everything alright in their own time.

Bonaro- lol, You are joking, right? Ha ha couldn't resist

 

[Bonaro]

Bonaro- lol, You are joking, right? Ha ha couldn't resist

Yes, Sarcasm is one of many services I provide

 

[DizzyDigger]

I suppose you are right, Dizzy. When we see inequities and abuses the best approach is to sit down and remain silent.
I am sure the government will make everything alright in their own time.

Not in the least...this fight is taking place in the courts and the hearts
and minds of the people. Ever attend a North of Falcon meeting?

Point being, the rules here on TNet are firm, and right or wrong they
enforce them. No point whatsoever for a thread being closed, deleted
or you and I getting banned.

OV...you want Steelhead? Our C&R season used to be awesome..

 

[Duckshot]

Nice catch Dizzy!

Did they clip the fin on hatchery fish when that picture was taken? What's the bait? Is there gold in that river?

 

[DizzyDigger]

Nice catch Dizzy!
Did they clip the fin on hatchery fish when that picture was taken?
What's the bait? Is there gold in that river?

Your correct...hatchery fish have the adipose fin clipped off,
but sadly we no longer have a hatchery steelhead program.

You can also tell a wild fish from a hatchery brat within a
few seconds of hooking up on one. Wild fish take off and
make a massive run (and you ain't gonna stop 'em!) and
a hatchery will take a couple short runs and then give up.

Caught that on a top-secret plug I used...named it "The
Golden Whore"...

There is gold in the Skagit, but it is very, very small. Bedrock
here is likely 80' deep...or more.

 

[Oregon Viking]

We have excellent fishing here, lets hope it stays that way!



The above chart is just for Steelhead. We also have a great Salmon seasons and the river I live next to has Cuttroat.
I live 70 miles or less from three of the river on that chart^

Hey Dizz....Did they run out of money for hatcheries up there, or was it the "Wild versus Hatchery" controversy?

 

[Duckshot]

I been out that way, fished at kayak point park north of Everret WA.. Caught a stray trout of about 12" and lost a couple nice ones, likely steelhead. July IIRC. Fishing a kastmater spoon, never did get the hang of landing them with that barbless hook.

When I was out that way I stopped at a little prospecting shop in Gold Bar. Nice place and friendly. Dude offered to take me panning later in the week but it just couldn't fit into the itinerary.