its ok to pee on my grave

[MadMarshall]

So I have some concerns which some of you may help clear up. Recently I received an email from someone about American Mining Rights Association.. It contained there 990 ez.. Now the person who sent me the email had some questions in the Information presented.. Their first concern was that none of the Raffles and Fundraising events were reported. Also he was not aware of the actual dates this 990ez form was meant to include.. Jan1 2014 - to Dec 31 2014? Or does it include part of 2015 as well?
Also one of the questions asked of me was how to tell where his donations went? Or where did the money go for the raffles he bought for Amra Fundraising. Also he asked me what part of the 990ez showed the contirbutions Amra has made to the Mining community? His intention was to support the dredging case here in California.. Now he wonders if his money or the Raffles tickets he bought were given to that cause.. And since The 990 ez shows no Raffles and Fundraising events I too share his concern.. He has been participating in AMRA raffles before AMRA even got there non profit status.. No records at the Attorney General office shows any info on these Raffles that AMRA has engaged in.. Even though over 2014 and 2015 Amra has supposebly been donated Guns and dredges gold and many many other things.. According to AMRA these Items were donated by individuals and businesses. Where are the information on these Raffles? how much earned where the money go? I have yet to be able to track down any info regarding AMRA Fundraising events.. Not in 2014 not in 2015.. Anyway in truth for me that email raised allot of questions and the more I looked the more questions I had...


Anyway I was hoping that maybe some of you had some insight that may help me put my mind at ease and others.

I am also wondering on AMRA claims? Are they AMRA Claims? Does AMRA only get claims thru Donations? Are there records of these donations? Does AMRA own the MINERAL RIGHTS or are they Leasing these claims from private claim holders? Is it as simple as me saying AMRA members can use my claim? Does the actual claim holder hold any responsibilities to the Public in donating their claim for AMRA use? Are Claims Owners Compensated for there Donations at all? Maybe a free Membership to the Club? Or a tax right off? Or is a simple go ahead and use my claim to support AMRA good enough? Also when AMRA Directors stake claims for AMRA members do they as an individual own the rights to the Minerals or is it the entity that owns the rights? I have yet to see any claims staked under the AMRA association.. So is it ok for AMRA to use funds to stake claims under the names of individuals on the AMRA Board of Directors? Are AMRA funds being used to purchase claims for individuals? Even if they allow AMRA members to use the claim the mineral rights still belong to the individual so are they profiting by using Non profit resources to purchase themselves Mineral Rights?

It is not my intention to accuse anyone of illegal or wrong doing. I am just looking to find answers to questions I have been unable to find.. A vast majority of Non Profits put allot of Emphasis on Transparency and it makes life so much easier not just for the donors but the Non Profit Org itself n truth when it comes to AMRA all I get is questions and dead ends..

So I ask your help in you helping me understand some of the questions I have brought up and any other imput one might have in regards to this topic..

 

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[MadMarshall]

Well for me I still have concerns. How much money was earned fundraising that was not reported? Why is it we only have AMRA word on where the money from fundraising has gone. I still have no idea on what dates there 990 is supposed to encompass? Anyway I suppose this is something for the Attorney Generals office... I have requested the records from all fundraising events(raffles) from Amra prior to sept1 2015. They have yet to send me any response..
Pretty simple. how much came in where it go.
There is no implication of wrong but an outright accusation.. It pretty clear that AMRA has received funds from Illegal fundraising events. And the fact that are no records pertaining to these at all is of grave concern.. A simple phone call and Shannon saying he used the funds for good aint gonna cut it for me.. Show me the proof!


I find it very ironic that MM has bragged about being a non tax payer,

"Well the way I see it I find it inspiring to find people who are willing to do the extra work to make a tax free dollar. IT's hard to earn a real living today without beining taxed so there are a few of us who choose different avenues, I prefer gold always some one will trade or buy straight out.. and less legal ramifications maybe I get fined big deal good luck finding any documented income heck ill never pay anyway!! Much better than paying taxes then complaing about it.."

,would be in such a uproar over a non profit using a EZ tax form, versus submitting long form. I find no inquiries on AMRA's

Firstly let me begin with I am not running a NON-profit and if I was you can bet that I would have givin a crap enough about my cause to do it right. Taxes are not my issue with AMRA just all those undocumented fundraising events..

But anyway gentlemen I have put this in the hands of the Attorney Generals office..

 

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[Asmbandits]

MM, your ideals and fundamentals really are quite something for one to try to wrap there head around, so Im not going to try.

Given ALL circumstances both his and yours, I would think its a good possibility Shannon could care less to take time from his day to defend his organization to someone such as yourself. I know I would.

 

[MadMarshall]

MM, your ideals and fundamentals really are quite something for one to try to wrap there head around, so Im not going to try.

Given ALL circumstances both his and yours, I would think its a good possibility Shannon could care less to take time from his day to defend his organization to someone such as yourself. I know I would.

Maybe you hit the nail on the head.. It most certainly appears as if Shannon could care less. He can easily put this to rest at anytime.. I am not requesting anything unreasonable or illegal.. In fact I am perfectly well withen my rights to make such inquires.. And AMRA has a responsibility to provide this information.. Pretty simple... You want someone to blame? maybe you should look at the incompetence that created this problem.

 

[Asmbandits]

I understand that but you have to ask yourself, what does this do for mining. You are correct you have every right to poke around all you want but why? I have no affiliation to AMRA and quite a neutral view on the matter, but I do know that In the end of this scandalous raffle Brandon was helped, everyone who participated in the event im sure willingly did so and would do it again. I think your argument might hold a little more concern with me if you were say a member or had attended the event which for all I know you could have..

For me I guess its more about why do you care so much to create a negative stance towards this organization? Did something AMRA do directly affect you in any way? All Ive heard and seen regarding AMRA has been positive imo for the mining community. I know there are some people that have there arguments with many of these organizations and that's fine by me to, remember no one is forcing anyone to support them.

 

[fowledup]

How much of YOUR money you figure he misappropriated? Based on his track record and past deeds I'm perfectly happy with how he has spent mine!
You've talked in the past about "getting the gold" and overcoming and adapting to the laws and changes, and all that other romantic idealistic horse excrement, but seriously. He like you is a man who was making his living off of mining. He unlike you had his method banned. He like you adapted and overcame an obstacle. He decided to remain doing what he loved and make a living off of it. By providing a service for others he gets paid. A portion of those proceeds he donates to help others that find themselves in the same legal boat. By all accounts, witnesses and deeds he has done nothing but good for the community he receives an income from. He pays his taxes, according to an expert who I trust, he has gone over and above what is required, which to me shows good intention not malicious wrong doing. So what's the real difference between you two?

 

[Goldwasher]

 

[calnatv]

He unlike you had his method banned.

Well said

 

[SchoolOfHardRocks]

From personal conversation I know that MM has an issue with people "mining the miners". I think that is what his issue with AMRA and many other non-profits/ mining clubs involves -I have the same issue in certain circumstances.

Is AMRA mining the miners?...IDK, I feel that Shannon & AMRA have good intentions, but what the hell do i know .

I do feel that these are good questions being raised, and once/if answered will show the reality of the situation. As pointed out, if all the behind the scenes paperwork and tasks were completed properly none of these challenges would be valid. So at least we can all agree that the org can be a little more transparent.

Even more importantly...HEAVY PANS.

 

[Asmbandits]

From personal conversation I know that MM has an issue with people "mining the miners". I think that is what his issue with AMRA and many other non-profits/ mining clubs involves -I have the same issue in certain circumstances.

Is AMRA mining the miners?...IDK, I feel that Shannon & AMRA have good intentions, but what the hell do i know .

I do feel that these are good questions being raised, and once/if answered will show the reality of the situation. As pointed out, if all the behind the scenes paperwork and tasks were completed properly none of these challenges would be valid. So at least we can all agree that the org can be a little more transparent.

Even more importantly...HEAVY PANS.

People have been mining the miners forever, these days its more about gadgets and clubs than overpriced supplies and food, but the key point for me is no one is forcing anyone to buy anything or join any club, Victor isnt even a member nor has had any action of AMRA affect him in any way, so what motivates him to discredit Shannon and the AMRA? How can a guy publicly say he wont and doesn't pay taxes have the nerve to call out a organization for something like this and expect to have support? The amount of moral contradiction that Victor displays each time he posts is what I have an issue with its ridiculous.

 

[spillercanyon]

I wish you would spend your time investigating the legality of these enviro-whacko non-profits instead of investigating organizations that are trying to help our cause! Though they are not perfect and I don't agree with everything they do (I don't agree with EVERYTHING anybody does), at least they are pushing in the general right direction.

 

[MadMarshall]

Throw whatever you want at me I am a big boy. I can take it.. Construe whatever you like... Seems everyone and anyone has chimed in .. Well except for AMRA that is..

 

[Hefty1]

I haven't...chimed in that is...more important issues at task.

 

[MadMarshall]

I just enjoy the song.. But I love prospecting...
waiting for AMRA to respond to me in anyway. on here or telephone or email .. But simple truth is nobody from AMRA has bothered to acknowledge my inquires not in any way. There disregard for Non Profits and what they represent is shameful to say the least if not criminal...

 

[Tuolumne]

GoldRadioTalk:Gold Prospecting Talk Show

Shannon Poe of amra will be on gold radio talk next week, anyone can call in and ask.......

 

[spillercanyon]

Though I support their efforts, their silence is raising some concerns.

 

[Goldwasher]

I have passed on some information. Did you use this email [email protected] ? A point not noticed is the fact that amra doesn't do raffles! They do giveaways and donations. It may seem the same because it kind of is But... At gold shows you normally get your cute lil, entry ticket FREE!!!!!!!! and if you want to participate in the raffle then do it. companies donate merchandise and it becomes prizes. I walked up to Walt from PLP and handed him a Bazooka and walked away. It was cool to hear it given away over the P.A. And cool that the I know the guy who won it from Facebook and had just met him. Sometimes there is just a discount and the group raffling pays off the prize with proceeds. All profit goes to the group to put towards its stated goals...and legally operating the group too.

Amra does outings and dinners. The biggies are the dinners. When you purchase a dinner ticket you get prize tickets. Better dinner ticket and you get more stuff. heck spend enough and you get a gun...do you pay a mark up to funnel some revenue to the fund yes...duh that's the point.
People like camaraderie. Good people like to get together in groups and essentially give things to people for different reasons. They tend to like to do that when they are in fact handing over hard earned cash. Its fun to watch people win stuff. I've seen tens of thousands of dollars of free stuff given to people at various shows. There are a lot of smiles as the general consensus in the room is that no one is getting ripped off.
The small scale mining community is made up of some of the most inquisitive and paranoid people on the planet. All groups are ran by an individual human whose personality and ethics will dictate the path of the group, people will see the group for what it is and if they don't like it they will tend to leave.
I could say people appreciate you looking out for them. But, I don't believe that is your motive. I see it as you disapprove mining groups of any kind as you have shown(stated) over and over.
I also think you should be careful because you have pointed out that you do in fact not have all the information. Yet are in fact publically accusing an individual by name of criminal acts. Your word Victor not a a deduction of your tone. you are asking for advice and opinion while accusing a group that has a lot of support and respect in the Motherlode region. You are bordering on slander and defamation and it does seem to be more personally driven rather than ethically.

Maybe you could volunteer some of your time to the group to take some administrative load off of the few people keeping the group going. You might learn about running a non-profit. You could share your prospecting knowledge and get good acces to areas you normally don't have access to. And help out in a more positive way. Honestly none of this affects you in anyway. I guess it is because you believe groups or clubs actually have a negative effect on mining. Then that is how it seems to affect you and you have to take these actions on principal.
It's just hard to see what your intent is as you do make contradictory statements and seem to have a double standards in certain regards. I think many here are confused about what you actually expect us to do. I guess your just venting really.

 

[mikep691]

My turn to chime in: As always, you and only you can determine here your money goes. If you have suspect feelings about ANY organization, it's your right to NOT donate. American Cancer Society is a non-profit. The CEO makes as much money as the President of the United States (unconfirmed, used as an example only). How much donated money actually goes to research? How much actually goes to Big Pharma? Point is it's your money, and you are the only one to choose where it goes. Lets continue to discredit those in the fight and give those enviro BIG MONEY non-profits some fuel.

 

[MadMarshall]

AMRA has straight ignored all attempts I have made.. Seems everyone else can talk to AMRA but me.. Maybe that's my problem? Maybe if I were not requesting records and just LIP SERVICE I would have heard from AMRA a long time. Gentlemen you can say and speculate all you want. And you are all more then welcome to stand up and speak for and support AMRA. Its is your right.
I owe you and no one else any kind of explanation.. But if I were running a Non Profit I would be more then happy to provide you with any and all information that anyone requested because that would be one of my responsibilities as a NON Profit.. I would be able to account for all donations and where the money went.. I most certainly wouldn't ignore or attack the individual requesting any information that I am required by law to provide..
Anyway I encourage everyone to request any records from AMRA.. Start with an easy one... Ask AMRA to provide you with a copy of all their 990's that they have filed. I would keep your request simple and to the point. I don't think AMRA can walk and chew gum at the same time... Maybe just have them account for one day of records?

 

[MadMarshall]

https://americanminingrights.com/?s=raffle


Start at the 22 minute mark..
Shannon Claims he has no knowledge or ties to the AMRA website.... But you do notice that he didn't hold his "DRAWING"...

LIP SERVICE at is best!!!

 

[Gold Searcher]

Your last comment/post was completely off and shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. This event that you show on youtube was an East Fork Gold Prospectors event and it was avertised on their website. Not AMRA's. It wasn't an AMRA event or drawing. Pay attention. The money was given to Brandon Rinehart. I've read through your thread and obviously you have something again'st them but you don't seem to know anything about them. See the attached links below. Seems like theyv been giving pretty generusly to other groups that are fighting for miners.

Here is a link about the event from the AMRA website about the East Fork Gold Prospectors event. Ialso inclded the link to East Fork Gold.It's apparently a GPAA gold chapter.
https://americanminingrights.com/update-from-amra-september-14th/

East Fork Gold Prospectors awareness day - Gold Prospectors Association of America - Forum | Gold Prospectors Association of America - Miscellaneous - GPAA Chapter or Community Events

Here is a link about the event on the East Fork Gold Prospectors Awareness Day facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/efork123/timeline

Here is a link to the AMRA website where they gave 50% of their take for a GPAA gold show to Brandon Rinehart and PLP.
https://americanminingrights.com/a-very-important-announcement-with-gpaa-and-amra/

Here is a link on the Western Mining Alliance website where they stated that AMRA gave $5,000.00 to Brandon Rinehart and $2,500.00 to Western Mining Alliance.
http://westernminingalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/WMA-Dec-2015-Newsletter.pdf