its ok to pee on my grave

MadMarshall

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So I have some concerns which some of you may help clear up. Recently I received an email from someone about American Mining Rights Association.. It contained there 990 ez.. Now the person who sent me the email had some questions in the Information presented.. Their first concern was that none of the Raffles and Fundraising events were reported. Also he was not aware of the actual dates this 990ez form was meant to include.. Jan1 2014 - to Dec 31 2014? Or does it include part of 2015 as well?
Also one of the questions asked of me was how to tell where his donations went? Or where did the money go for the raffles he bought for Amra Fundraising. Also he asked me what part of the 990ez showed the contirbutions Amra has made to the Mining community? His intention was to support the dredging case here in California.. Now he wonders if his money or the Raffles tickets he bought were given to that cause.. And since The 990 ez shows no Raffles and Fundraising events I too share his concern.. He has been participating in AMRA raffles before AMRA even got there non profit status.. No records at the Attorney General office shows any info on these Raffles that AMRA has engaged in.. Even though over 2014 and 2015 Amra has supposebly been donated Guns and dredges gold and many many other things.. According to AMRA these Items were donated by individuals and businesses. Where are the information on these Raffles? how much earned where the money go? I have yet to be able to track down any info regarding AMRA Fundraising events.. Not in 2014 not in 2015.. Anyway in truth for me that email raised allot of questions and the more I looked the more questions I had...


Anyway I was hoping that maybe some of you had some insight that may help me put my mind at ease and others.

I am also wondering on AMRA claims? Are they AMRA Claims? Does AMRA only get claims thru Donations? Are there records of these donations? Does AMRA own the MINERAL RIGHTS or are they Leasing these claims from private claim holders? Is it as simple as me saying AMRA members can use my claim? Does the actual claim holder hold any responsibilities to the Public in donating their claim for AMRA use? Are Claims Owners Compensated for there Donations at all? Maybe a free Membership to the Club? Or a tax right off? Or is a simple go ahead and use my claim to support AMRA good enough? Also when AMRA Directors stake claims for AMRA members do they as an individual own the rights to the Minerals or is it the entity that owns the rights? I have yet to see any claims staked under the AMRA association.. So is it ok for AMRA to use funds to stake claims under the names of individuals on the AMRA Board of Directors? Are AMRA funds being used to purchase claims for individuals? Even if they allow AMRA members to use the claim the mineral rights still belong to the individual so are they profiting by using Non profit resources to purchase themselves Mineral Rights?

It is not my intention to accuse anyone of illegal or wrong doing. I am just looking to find answers to questions I have been unable to find.. A vast majority of Non Profits put allot of Emphasis on Transparency and it makes life so much easier not just for the donors but the Non Profit Org itself n truth when it comes to AMRA all I get is questions and dead ends..

So I ask your help in you helping me understand some of the questions I have brought up and any other imput one might have in regards to this topic..
 

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Reed Lukens

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LIP SERVICE at is best!!!

Lip service? Shannon is a gifted speaker and an advocate for us miners. Is he perfect? No, but neither am I or anyone else. What he has is the ability to be a good speaker and this is what he does. He came to the last WMA meeting at the Stone House and spoke there. I'm glad that he did because I've seen to many people just mining the miners, where actually Shannon was a good representative. So I joined AMRA and had planned on joining after I started watching what he was getting involved in for our benefit. He's been in the courts fighting for us. If Shannon wasn't making a difference, I would have ignored him, but the fact is - he makes a difference. As miners we are all used to being attacked from all sides, some times we're forced to fight and others we can ignore because they're meaningless in the big picture. So if you've contacted him, sent an email, or even snail mail, then all you can do is wait for a response. If you have been waiting over 6 months for a reply, then push it. But right now with all of the holidays, then the New Year just starting, and tax time coming up, maybe they're not ready to give you a response. Wait until after tax time when the paperwork is done and try again. I didn't join to go to their claims, I joined because I believe in supporting his efforts, just like I support Brandon and many others over the years. Doing him wrong for him doing his best to help all us miners is pointless. At least he is making a stand for our benefit. Did you get yourself hired by Izzy to start beating down the dredgers? Instead of giving $1000.00 to AMRA, donate to the Sierra Fund, everything you are doing here Victor is helping them anyway, so put up some money even if it's against us, at least you'll be helping someone - Donate Now | The Sierra Fund
 

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MadMarshall

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East Bay Prospectors... Yet another 501c3 non profit..

1. Be the custodian of the Chapter checking account/book.
2. Maintain open, accurate records of all financial transactions.
3. Prepare a monthly Financial Report for the membership.
4. Collect all Monies and keep account of the Chapter Petty Cash Account.

Part of their BYLAWS
Club Bylaws |
Maybe they actually keep records.. Lets find out....
 

Gold Searcher

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They might Marshall. Ive been to their meetings and they always had less than $2,000 cash on hand and had a monthly public meeting that was long, drawn out and boring as they went over every single dollar that they took in or put out. I don't believe thay have to provide you with every detail though. Just the same as what is provided to the irs. I noticed that you already had a 990 from amra. what more are you looking for? According to the attorney general website, you have what they're required to give you. They don't have to break out every event and every donation on that form.

What are your thoughts about what i posted above? I see quite a bit of money given to Brandon and two other non profits that fight for miners. Your on a tangent but when someone posts something relevent, you ignore it and keep ranting. Your ignoring every question asked of you and instead post another rant.
 

Goldwasher

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https://americanminingrights.com/?s=raffle


Start at the 22 minute mark..
Shannon Claims he has no knowledge or ties to the AMRA website.... But you do notice that he didn't hold his "DRAWING"...

LIP SERVICE at is best!!!


When he says "its not their website" he is referring to the fact that a socal club was advertising that amra would be there. They used the term raffle. What Shannon is saying is correct.
Is this your new gig? Out of fairness are you making sure to investigate every other giveaway and bake sale, regardless of cause. Just to make sure that any group raising funds in this way is on the up and up. Or is it only mining rights support groups you investigate? Seems that you are the one who can not construe the information into the facts that you want to hear?
If I was running a group like amra.. I would gladly sit down and have a coffee, tea....beer..with any member or supporter or potential polite member and be as transparent as glass! Downright over bearing and forceful in my communication of the inner workings. Because most likely I would be quite passionate on the subject.
I honestly would not be all that helpful to the lone fellow who rode into town on a mighty high horse. Another thing to point out. This mission was put in your ear by another source. You the ever faithful ally are working as a team. Why the habits of the road agent? I think the term gentlemen has been overused lately. You are not being fair and are motivated by personal agenda at the least. Its a terrible thing to see.
 

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MadMarshall

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They might Marshall. Ive been to their meetings and they always had less than $2,000 cash on hand and had a monthly public meeting that was long, drawn out and boring as they went over every single dollar that they took in or put out. I don't believe thay have to provide you with every detail though. Just the same as what is provided to the irs. I noticed that you already had a 990 from amra. what more are you looking for? According to the attorney general website, you have what they're required to give you. They don't have to break out every event and every donation on that form.

What are your thoughts about what i posted above? I see quite a bit of money given to Brandon and two other non profits that fight for miners. Your on a tangent but when someone posts something relevent, you ignore it and keep ranting. Your ignoring every question asked of you and instead post another rant.


They might what? keep records? Are u kidding me?

Please keep posting information.. ITS ALL RELEVENT .
 

Oakview2

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What is relevant is a tax cheat, standing on a soapbox crowing to the world how everbody else is cheating. You are not screwing just miners, but all tax paying citizens.
 

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MadMarshall

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What is relevant is a tax cheat, standing on a soapbox crowing to the world how everbody else is cheating. You are not screwing just miners, but all tax paying citizens.

What is relevant is a tax cheat, standing on a soapbox crowing to the world how everbody else is cheating.

For a second there I was thinking great!! "about time"...

You are not screwing just miners, but all tax paying citizens

oh well makes no difference.....

All I can say is THAT THE BEST YOU GOT? Feel free to bring your concerns with the appropriate authorities ... I have and I hope others do too.
 

Oakview2

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I don't care what you do, but you have no moral high ground, when you are riding on the backs of all taxpaying citizens. Quite frankly your act is very tiring. It is evident is obvious why you think it makes no difference to you.
 

Goldwasher

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Per your p.m. Victor don't bother please. I will copy and paste and put it here as I prefer the openness you are wanting and not using! I can also copy and paste my messages with Shannon if you would like. What you are doing is not "Just Business".
Like others have pointed out you have been given valid answers. And asked questions that you refuse to answer. You deflect. You yourself said a phone call from Shannon himself would not suffice. You are on an obvious warpath. I don't think you will find many allies here in fighting that type of battle.

A little story some will remember some never heard. I believe it has some relevance. There once was a guy who posted a thread about being accused of highgrading. The people making the accusations had seen areas they knew were under claim in videos. These videos are prolific on a you tube channel. More than one person frequents these areas and physical evidence was also seen. Several people complained to each other and to the Pres. of the Sacramento chapter of gpaa put out an email notice. The accused posted the email here and complained to know end. About what you might ask? For one being accused in the first place. For not seeking him out in person in the first place. rather than contacting authorities! And how he now had to basically fear for his safety because people would be looking for him. I could go find the thread and put it here. I remember correctly a lot of the same points were made. about clubs and groups and how they are ruining our mining opportunities more than anything. What isn't mentioned in the thread is all the drama that happened in the background because of the fact that certain people were avoiding talking to other certain people. and instead of dealing with the issue at hand, priority one becomes dealing with rumors.
Shannon is well aware of these complaints from the first message on. The belief that he wouldn't bother wasting a retort seems about correct. based on the fact that he knows he doesn't have anything to worry about. I'm sure he spends more time with lawyers than most of us here. and not for negative reasons.
I don't give money to groups per se. I have helped funnel some funds. And lend my citizen's duties and I spread the word. The first bit of anything I can get will go to mylandmatters and because of this whole thing I'm gonna give to amra. Heck I might just go locate a claim and donate it to them even.And I'm definitely going to their dinner.

Don't pm me again I'm extremely disappointed in you and at this point your word means nothing to me.
 

spillercanyon

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I don't know much about non profits but I think AMRA is fighting a good fight for my right to mine so I'll continue to support their efforts, stay out of the particulars of non profits (instead of getting concerned about things I don’t know about) and go mining.
 

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MadMarshall

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Per your p.m. Victor don't bother please. I will copy and paste and put it here as I prefer the openness you are wanting and not using! I can also copy and paste my messages with Shannon if you would like. What you are doing is not "Just Business".
Like others have pointed out you have been given valid answers. And asked questions that you refuse to answer. You deflect. You yourself said a phone call from Shannon himself would not suffice. You are on an obvious warpath. I don't think you will find many allies here in fighting that type of battle.

A little story some will remember some never heard. I believe it has some relevance. There once was a guy who posted a thread about being accused of highgrading. The people making the accusations had seen areas they knew were under claim in videos. These videos are prolific on a you tube channel. More than one person frequents these areas and physical evidence was also seen. Several people complained to each other and to the Pres. of the Sacramento chapter of gpaa put out an email notice. The accused posted the email here and complained to know end. About what you might ask? For one being accused in the first place. For not seeking him out in person in the first place. rather than contacting authorities! And how he now had to basically fear for his safety because people would be looking for him. I could go find the thread and put it here. I remember correctly a lot of the same points were made. about clubs and groups and how they are ruining our mining opportunities more than anything. What isn't mentioned in the thread is all the drama that happened in the background because of the fact that certain people were avoiding talking to other certain people. and instead of dealing with the issue at hand, priority one becomes dealing with rumors.
Shannon is well aware of these complaints from the first message on. The belief that he wouldn't bother wasting a retort seems about correct. based on the fact that he knows he doesn't have anything to worry about. I'm sure he spends more time with lawyers than most of us here. and not for negative reasons.
I don't give money to groups per se. I have helped funnel some funds. And lend my citizen's duties and I spread the word. The first bit of anything I can get will go to mylandmatters and because of this whole thing I'm gonna give to amra. Heck I might just go locate a claim and donate it to them even.And I'm definitely going to their dinner.

Don't pm me again I'm extremely disappointed in you and at this point your word means nothing to me.

Bring up what you like.. I think someone already brought that up... share what you like...
I can handle it and I will not hide nor am I even remotely concerned.. Don't just talk about it and cry about it.. I am sorry the only thing in AMRAS arsenal is personal attacks. Anyway no sweat off my back.
As always I hope this finds you and your loved ones well and wish you the best.
 

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MadMarshall

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ITS JUST BUSINESS

Out of Fairness
I have made inquiries before to quite a few Business and non profits and never ever have I gotten such a response. Well other then the information I requested..

You think AMRA is so stand up then why not just provide me with any information?
Simple truth I never bothered with AMRA other then my usual *****ing.. But like I said I got an email from someone who had some questions and a few things he witnessed first hand that made him un easy.. So I did a quick glance requested a few simple things.. Nothing then nothing now..

I can only do what I think is best for my community..
This is just business.. Is AMRA COMPETENT at running a business?
I am willing to bet all transactions are pretty much cash and no records were kept..

Anyway I am sorry we do not see eye to eye but I stand firm..
but anyway.. time will tell who can account for what? AMRA wants to drag everyone down with them fine by me.
All these groups and clubs are pretty much the same and can all be traced to each other. Simuliar to inbreeding.
They sit there and convolute the issue at the exspense of the very people they represent...
You ever hear of MINERS ASSEMBLED? LOL

Is this the PM GW?

I stand by all I said...
 

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MadMarshall

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Well Gentlemen I do not think I will participate anymore on this thread.. If AMRA replies on this thread that may be a different matter.. But as it stands The only person who should be accounting for anything is hiding! Anyway feel free to continue your thoughts and opinions of me..

wish you all the best!!!
 

Goldwasher

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ITS JUST BUSINESS

Out of Fairness
I have made inquiries before to quite a few Business and non profits and never ever have I gotten such a response. Well other then the information I requested..

You think AMRA is so stand up then why not just provide me with any information?
Simple truth I never bothered with AMRA other then my usual *****ing.. But like I said I got an email from someone who had some questions and a few things he witnessed first hand that made him un easy.. So I did a quick glance requested a few simple things.. Nothing then nothing now..

I can only do what I think is best for my community..
This is just business.. Is AMRA COMPETENT at running a business?
I am willing to bet all transactions are pretty much cash and no records were kept..

Anyway I am sorry we do not see eye to eye but I stand firm..
but anyway.. time will tell who can account for what? AMRA wants to drag everyone down with them fine by me.
All these groups and clubs are pretty much the same and can all be traced to each other. Simuliar to inbreeding.
They sit there and convolute the issue at the exspense of the very people they represent...
You ever hear of MINERS ASSEMBLED? LOL

Is this the PM GW?

I stand by all I said...

I wasn't implying you were saying anything sneaky. I just think all your words on the subject should be seen. I know you don't care what people think that's always been obvious to me. Wouldn't bother me except for the fact that you've always been up front with your personal judgement of others. I realize you don't realize how self righteous you come across.
I tried to use one of your posted links to see where you commented to amra on FB. it was a link to a thread where ironically Shannon was addressing the non-profit status directly. They have had issues with another prospecting group bashing them and saying they aren't "really" a non profit. within those posts there were numerous factful points of information that are relevant and answer your concerns. you see the problem is your locked on and only have certain "right " answers you want to hear.
I used to be a gpaa member mainly a magazine subscription and a way to find easy access to out of state sites. I have never been a member of any club. I've gone to a few meetings. As a way to see if I may join a local group. I don't prospect and mine to because I like to sit and listen to people talk about officers agendas, rules, bylaws etc. mainly I want to meet others that do the same crazy crap I do and to network. it is an excellent way to get people together who are highly individualistic. another thing that keeps me away is I'm not typically in the same age bracket as most prospecting club memebers:laughing7:..(not that I don't enjoy the hell out of you old timers)
I have supported members here when they are attacked for supporting plp.......I don't think they do all that much for miners..I would never join but, people have the right to do what they want. and I don't like members being insulted for supporting who they want in the fight for our access rights. I don't care for WMA I like Rick he lives near me I know he has good intentions...but, I see spin and misinformation in their newsletters.. I don't like being told mining will be gone if I don't send money to any one particular group. So I can understand not wanting to support certain clubs. But, I don't have any reason to crusade against them. As most legislation against mining and prospecting is kept on the down low and these groups do have their ears to the ground and spread info and issues very well.
I do like Amra in the respect that Shannon is fully prepared to back his membership in court. he will help non member miners. he is very smart and tactful in how how. chooses and fights his battles. If Amra wasn't involved in the senate hearings for sb637 we would have been steamrolled with out even being there. Several of the rewrites were affected by our presence and the current wording that was passed even though it isn't what we want allows us to be at the table during the rulemaking process.
There have been several wins lately in the small scale mining community. It has been these groups that are keeping us informed and helping to organize a defense against the attitude against us. The groups on the other side have way more financial support then the mining groups. Our own money working against us actually it is very unnerving for us TAXPAYERS to know our money helps the groups who fight to take away our lifestyles.
You were sent on the attack by someone else and you of all people have a huge bias against any club, group, law, government or as you've shown pretty much anyone who doesn't "prospect for a living" stating basically that anyone who doesn't work like you doesn't deserve the same respect. and that long standing law should be changed to fit your beliefs. Maybe you don't realize the way your attitude comes across? Your statement of your lack of concern for what others think rings very true when weighed against your words and actions. How on earth do you expect us to support your cause when you have obvious bias and started this "cause " for someone else and with what appear to be ulterior motives.
If you were just asking what seem to be valid questions you would have your answers the fact that you dodge and do not address the information given to you shows that you want a different result. You think clubs are an extremely negative thing to mining and you want to destroy them. You have found one that you believe has obvious issues so you dug in. When you don't get the answers you want you sidestep hoping for the same end result. that result is amra being outed as a group whose sole existence is to fleece the pockets of it's mouth breathing membership. and hopefully show Shannon Poe as the snake oil salesman he is.
 

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Goldwasher

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From Shannon. " We are aware of what he is saying, he sent us an email that he filed a complaint with the AG. He's welcome to do that as there is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning a legitimate non-profit. However, he is completely and provably wrong. We obtained our non-profit status in Feb of 2013. We never claimed to have our 501(c)(3) status until we received it Dec 2014. We don't buy claims for board members, some of the claims are in their names because AMRA doesn't have any claims in its name. Most, if not all gold clubs and associations do this as anyone one entity who owns more that 10 claims falls under the large scale miner category and it would be very costly. Many of AMRA's claims are "access donated" by other owners, even some of our board. Every single penny we have taken in is 100% accounted for, every penny and our staff does not get paid except for our Admin/Bookkeeper. We have an attorney at our call and he makes damn sure our business is above board and every T is crossed and I dotted. The money he referenced from the LA fundraiser was put on by a local club down there. I believe they raised $1,081.00. We spent about $1,000 just going there to support them and hand carried all $1,081.00 and handed it directly to Brandon Rinehart at WMA's fundraiser we spoke at, it was even done on film. Every dollar we have raised in donations (outings) is and has been accounted for. A good question to ask is if he received an email from someone asking all these questions, why didn't the man sending the email ask those questions of us? Why is he using Marshall as his attack dog and remaining anonymous? Why didn't he just pick up the phone and call us? No, something else is at work here. We are not going to respond to him now that he claims to have filed a complaint, that could be construed by the AG as us trying to influence him. We'll gladly post the results, but it would have been much easier if this guy, or the original person just called us. We think someone is getting a bit nervous about AMRA becoming the Mining Rights leader, doing what they say and getting results."
 

Terry Soloman

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I guess you can finally put a fork in this one.. :skullflag:
 

Reed Lukens

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From Shannon. We think someone is getting a bit nervous about AMRA becoming the Mining Rights leader, doing what they say and getting results."

Personally I think it's a good thing to have the new blood coming in and taking on some leadership. That's why I support WMA and AMRA, I mean, I've been a member of GPAA, LDMA and NEW49ers since way back into the last century and we have all fought this fight for years. It's time for the new blood to fight the fight and let us retired "old timers" help support them. If you want to win in court, it takes money along with the people young enough to think straight and win. Personally, these days I kind of sit in the background and make a little push here and there to keep the pot brewing. I stirred the pot at the WMA meeting and everyone walked away happy, plus I joined AMRA along with a bunch of others :)
I'm really glad to see Shannon taking this stance because he really is one of the best speakers that we have fighting for us.
 

chupacabra

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I personally called Shannon asking for information on the 501(c) status before joining ( because there was a hold up on the feds side I believe) and got the scoo, got all the information I needed personally from him.

This is a game someones playing we all know that so wouldn't bother spending another second on this thread, but word has it not everyone here is on the up n up themselves mr marshall LOL

And the other fellow who talked real bad on AMRA, i hope you can work out whatever issues you have with them going on your claims and accusations of them doing things against antiquities acts? maybe that's a good topic for another thread, digging around old grinding hole sites? what the hell are grinding holes other then where someone used to grind some acorns, are those sites out of bounds ? i can see how a burial site ( grave yard ) would be but grinding holes, COME ON!
 

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MadMarshall

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We can debate this all day long... And I will not... Shannon has yet to ever bother to provide me with the information I requested.. From Shannon means crap to me.... How about this GW Why don't you just have Shannon Email you all the 990s he filed from 2012 to current should be more then one! Pretty simple request.. And please post them! Maybe instead of playing this kindergarten game Shannon can just provide me with the info I request as required by law.
 

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