Calling all "clay" haters!!

Wishbone

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Calling all "clay" hater's!!

Being a new miner, I've always been fascinated at the love/hate relationship between miner's and clay. They do the dance of joy when they find a layer of clay with a bounty of gold sitting right on top, or breaking through the false bedrock of clay and finding the payload there.
Only to curse the very same clay as they fight to combat it's relentless grip on gold and anything else that it comes into contact with! Even the most patient miner's cringe at the dreaded word "CLAY".
Here is what I have found so far.
There are many type's of clay. Which I AM NOT going to talk about because in terms of "fun", I'd rather stick an ice pick in my ear, then get that boring. I have found out that there are things that miner's add to clay, in an attempt to:
1. Settle the clay in the water faster in recirculating systems, to avoid pump burnout and run cleaner water.
2. Make clay release it's grip on our beloved gold and other valuables.
It's the first one that I need help with (to start with)! I want to run a recirculating system with a few tub's, and need advise on settling the clay in my water. I don't want any dangerous chemicals, and right now the best advise I have been given is 1/2 Borax, mixed with 1/2 Calgon Water Softener. The reason why I think this is good advise is because they are both, readily available, cheap, and safe to use.
Is there anyone out there that doesn't fear the dreaded CLAY, I really could use some advise, please!
 

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Wishbone

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If Washing soda isn't cheap enough for you at less than a dollar a pound you could make your own Washing Soda at home with Baking soda and your oven for 46 cents a pound. :thumbsup:

Of course you might miss the minty taste and fresh feeling. :laughing7

Heavy Pans

LOL...I'm not THAT cheap. Where do you purchase the soda ash claydiggins, at a plant store, or maybe a ceramic's store? BC is known for it's high soil acidity, so your advice seems right on target!! I really like the boiling it first part. Now I know why you people aren't afraid of clay, your smarter then the average bear. Claydiggins, what mixture of soda ash would you use per every 5 gal bucket of water? That way I can follow your advice regardless of what size hold trough I choose.
This is fun, THANKS!
 

chlsbrns

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Before any of you use soda ash you should get some protective clothing and read up on the acute health effects!

Oh and keep your kids and animals away from your clothes!
 

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Clay Diggins

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LOL...I'm not THAT cheap. Where do you purchase the soda ash claydiggins, at a plant store, or maybe a ceramic's store? BC is known for it's high soil acidity, so your advice seems right on target!! I really like the boiling it first part. Now I know why you people aren't afraid of clay, your smarter then the average bear. Claydiggins, what mixture of soda ash would you use per every 5 gal bucket of water? That way I can follow your advice regardless of what size hold trough I choose.
This is fun, THANKS!

You should be able to find it in any grocery store in the detergent section. You are looking for "Washing Soda". Generally less than $4 for 5 pounds.

If you live in the arid west try some Washing Soda in your laundry. Your washing machine will get your clothes a lot cleaner and they will last longer by adding a little washing soda. Just follow the directions on the box.

Soda Ash is the same stuff. You can buy that in buckets or sacks at a pool supply but generally the price is higher than the same stuff in a washing soda box. Just look for "Sodium carbonate" as the only ingredient. You don't want the perfumed stuff but Kevin in Colorado might find that more pleasing. :laughing7:

Whether you are washing your clothes, mining or swimming in it Sodium carbonate is perfectly safe as long as you don't try to make it a major part of your diet.

Here are the Exposure Limit standards for health and safety:
Exposure Limit
Chemical Name - Sodium Carbonate
  • ACGIH - none
  • NIOSH - none
  • OSHA - none

About the same danger as table salt, less dangerous than concrete.

How much is needed is all about the CEC of your clay and the natural pH. It varies with every situation. I use about 1/2 pound per every 2,500 gallons but in your situation it might be entirely different. Get some pH paper and read the link above to understand the Cation Exchange Capacity of your clay and how much pH shift (washing soda) will be needed. The only thing I can say for sure is your deposit and my deposit will not be the same.

Heavy Pans
 

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okbasspro

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My deposit dictates using the blaster nozzle. Takes care of it easy peasy.

image-2102110743.jpg

Of course I have one of the few dredging claims in Arid-Zona.
 

Clay Diggins

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I really like the boiling it first part.

I just noticed this part Wishbone. Please don't boil your Washing Soda. You really only need to warm the water a little to get it to dissolve faster. In the desert this is rarely a problem but getting washing soda to dissolve in freezing cold water takes a long time.

Heavy Pans
 

KevinInColorado

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Minty fresh panning tub...that's how I roll! LOL!
 

chlsbrns

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You should be able to find it in any grocery store in the detergent section. You are looking for "Washing Soda". Generally less than $4 for 5 pounds.

If you live in the arid west try some Washing Soda in your laundry. Your washing machine will get your clothes a lot cleaner and they will last longer by adding a little washing soda. Just follow the directions on the box.

Soda Ash is the same stuff. You can buy that in buckets or sacks at a pool supply but generally the price is higher than the same stuff in a washing soda box. Just look for "Sodium carbonate" as the only ingredient. You don't want the perfumed stuff but Kevin in Colorado might find that more pleasing. :laughing7:

Whether you are washing your clothes, mining or swimming in it Sodium carbonate is perfectly safe as long as you don't try to make it a major part of your diet.

Here are the Exposure Limit standards for health and safety:


About the same danger as table salt, less dangerous than concrete.

How much is needed is all about the CEC of your clay and the natural pH. It varies with every situation. I use about 1/2 pound per every 2,500 gallons but in your situation it might be entirely different. Get some pH paper and read the link above to understand the Cation Exchange Capacity of your clay and how much pH shift (washing soda) will be needed. The only thing I can say for sure is your deposit and my deposit will not be the same.

Heavy Pans

Potential Acute Health Effects: Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation (lung irritant).

The substance may be toxic to upper respiratory tract, skin, eyes. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.

Eye Contact:
Check for and remove any contact lenses. In case of contact, immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. Cold water may be used. Get medical attention.

Skin Contact:
In case of contact, immediately flush skin with plenty of water. Cover the irritated skin with an emollient. Remove contaminated clothing and shoes. Cold water may be used.Wash clothing before reuse. Thoroughly clean shoes before reuse. Get medical attention.

Serious Skin Contact:
Wash with a disinfectant soap and cover the contaminated skin with an anti-bacterial cream. Seek immediate medical attention.

Inhalation:
If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Get medical attention.
Serious Inhalation: Not available.

Ingestion:
Do NOT induce vomiting unless directed to do so by medical personnel. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Loosen tight clothing such as a collar, tie, belt or waistband. Get medical attention if symptoms appear.


Section 8: Exposure Controls/Personal Protection

Engineering Controls:
Use process enclosures, local exhaust ventilation, or other engineering controls to keep airborne levels below recommended exposure limits. If use operations generate dust, fume or mist, use ventilation to keep exposure to airborne contaminants below the exposure limit.

Personal Protection:
Splash goggles. Lab coat. Dust respirator. Be sure to use an approved/certified respirator or equivalent. Gloves.

Personal Protection in Case of a Large Spill:
Splash goggles. Full suit. Dust respirator. Boots. Gloves. A self contained breathing apparatus should be used to avoid inhalation of the product. Suggested protective clothing might not be sufficient; consult a specialist BEFORE handling this product.

Toxicological Information

Routes of Entry: Inhalation. Ingestion.

Toxicity to Animals:

WARNING: THE LC50 VALUES HEREUNDER ARE ESTIMATED ON THE BASIS OF A 4-HOUR EXPOSURE. Acute oral
toxicity (LD50): 4090 mg/kg [Rat]. Acute toxicity of the dust (LC50): 1200 mg/m3 2 hours [Mouse].

Chronic Effects on Humans: May cause damage to the following organs: upper respiratory tract, skin, eyes.

Other Toxic Effects on Humans: Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation (lung irritant).

Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: LDL (Lowest Published Lethal Dose) [Man] - Route: Oral; Dose: 714 mg/kg

Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: May cause adverse reproductive effects based on animal test data

Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:

Acute Potential Health Effects: Skin: Causes skin irritation with possible burns depending on the concentration, site (abraded or intact skin), and duration of exposure.

Eyes: Causes eye irritation and possible burns. Concentrated solutions may cause permanent corneal injury (permanent corneal opacity).

Ingestion: Sodium carbonate ingestion may cause irritation of the digestive tract resulting in nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, thirst, abdominal pain depending on concentration and amount ingested.

May also affect the cardiovascular system .

Inhalation: Dust may cause respiratory tract and mucous membrane irritation with coughing and shortness of breath (dyspnea), pulmonary edema.

Chronic Potential Health Effects: Chronic inhalation may result in decreased pulmonary function, nasal congestion, nosebleeds, perforation of the nasal septum.

Other effects of chronic exposure are skin (dermatitis and ulceration), and gastrointestinal complaints. However, the effects of chronic exposure seem to be reversible if exposure is decreased.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...eIYhG8U_JnbYgyHcg&sig2=So1V0gmx5bn88xktQQw0Nw

Gezzz I hope its not like salt! Lol!
 

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Clay Diggins

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Here's the secret formula for making your own Sodium carbonate. *

naturesnurtureblog.com/ttt-turn-baking-soda-into-washing-soda


See - even a greenie can pull this off safely. :thumbsup:

Heavy Pans

* Warning: Leaving head in oven while heating Baking Soda can be harmful to health. Rolling in warmed Baking Soda can cause minor abrasion or giggling. Do not drive oven when under influence of Baking Soda.
 

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Wishbone

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Thanks for reminding us of safety chlsbrns, it's the most important thing in ANY operation, at the office, home and of course mining.
Because of your reminder, I Googled "soda ash safety" and I feel comfortable using it. I noticed that household insulation and soda ash user's, use some of the very same safety precautions and the adverse effects are the same too. Don't breath it in, don't get it in your eye's, will irritate skin...lol....hell, Tabasco sauce does that. I wouldn't have checked for safety if it wasn't for your post (thumbs up)!
I live in a very hot area in the summer like claydiggins, so I won't have to boil the soda ash. I like th PH paper idea, no guess work (or very little). You people have got me all HYPED to not only slay this clay dragon, but to tame it and get it to bring me a little gold. I'll get a video of my first set up in "no water land"...lol....the claim.
 

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Bill_saf

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Soda Ash, washing soda, "Sodium carbonate" (its crushed lime stone!) its in your food, its in your tooth past, its in pet food, its in the water you drink! Dang it Im going to die

Bill
 

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Wishbone

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Soda Ash, washing soda, "Sodium carbonate" (its crushed lime stone!) its in your food, its in your tooth past, its in pet food, its in the water you drink! Dang it Im going to die

Bill

To freak'in funny Bill. If your going to die, couldn't I make some Bill ash from the remains? It did say to put it in the oven to bake, and if you died from soda ash, the it stands to reason that Billash would have a high PH level!
Way to take one for the team Bill.
 

chlsbrns

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We use sodium carbonate. When mixed with another ingredient and water it boils and lets off a fine vapor. If it was done indoors and the vapors got on your skin your skin would fall off like melting wax and you would die!

It sickens me that someone would deceive others in a public forum and make them think that washing soda is as safe as salt! To make jokes about it!

We do our proceedure outdoors in a large cone bottom tank to capture ALL of the nano to micron gold from black sands. We spent $$$ with chemical engineers to perfect the procedure.

The ingredient that we use could be in the soil! I doubt that there would be enough of the ingredient but if there is and the vapor gets on your skin you will regret using it!
 

Bill_saf

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gee wizz are you going going to cry the sky is falling again. I hauled the stuff from the mine plant to paint plants, water treatment plants, pet food plants, AG supply companys, and food wharehouses. FArmers spread it on there fields to adjust the ph of soil and add other minerals.


Bill
 

okbasspro

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Soda ash is the active ingredient in washing soda. The chemical name for it is sodium carbonate, chemical formula Na2CO3. It is more basic, that is, less acidic, than sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), whose chemical formula is NaHCO3. The purpose of sodium carbonate is simply to increase pH.
 

chlsbrns

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Soda ash is the active ingredient in washing soda. The chemical name for it is sodium carbonate, chemical formula Na2CO3. It is more basic, that is, less acidic, than sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), whose chemical formula is NaHCO3. The purpose of sodium carbonate is simply to increase pH.

It's also used in flux to smelt gold and has a whole lot of other uses.
 

chlsbrns

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gee wizz are you going going to cry the sky is falling again. I hauled the stuff from the mine plant to paint plants, water treatment plants, pet food plants, AG supply companys, and food wharehouses. FArmers spread it on there fields to adjust the ph of soil and add other minerals.


Bill

Are you talking about lime or sodium carbonate? They are two different things.
 

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