Claim access though locked gates?
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Thread: Claim access though locked gates?

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  1. #1
    us
    Mar 2016
    California
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    Claim access though locked gates?

    (If a locked gate blocks access to my claim?
    California

    The owner of an unpatented mining claim cannot be denied access to his property by federal law. Generally, if a locked gate is preventing you from accessing your claim, the Forest Service (or appropriate agency) must provide you with a key.)

    This is what I've gotten so far off the internet so My question is, What about though a hydro electric plant road. Not into the actual station as it is fenced around but down the dirt road passing the station to the river access. The road is about a mile off main road down to River and has a gate that is locked about half way down. It does have access to Pedestrian crossing I believe used by rafters. If the claim is down passed the station should I be able to legally get access?
    Hitndahed likes this.

  2. #2
    us
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    I've spoke to the hydroelectric plant manger on the phone in he was polite as to say there would be a security issue for passage. Not saying no completely but not likely. So I left it alone to ask another day. But If I had to and I mean IF, Would I have a shot at proving my access to be legit accessibility.
    Hitndahed and ClaimStake like this.

  3. #3

    Mar 2016
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    If your claim was there before anyone ever thought about a plant, you have a good chance. If the claim came after the fact, Probably not.
    kcm, Underburden and ClaimStake like this.

  4. #4
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    911 was a great excuse to restrict access to many hydro electric areas BUT the largest majority withdrawn from mineral entry through power withdrawl. You can claim just about anything but that only means they took your money and not legal as withdrawn. They are SUPPOSED to review prior to giving you your CAMC documentation number and tell you to refile under power withdrawl. John

  5. #5
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    water rights in california are very old. They outdate most other rights and agencies. If it is private they don't have to give you access. especially if the road was created for access to the plant. Just because there is a power withdrawl that doesn't mean you can't file a claim it just means you have to go about it a little differently.
    Last edited by Goldwasher; Mar 29, 2016 at 12:27 PM.

  6. #6
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    if this is on public land, the plant has precedence. in court they look at who is the most developed. in this case the plant is.

    all you can do is try to work with them.

    a power plant can be very hazardous, they really don't like visitors. personnel have to wear fire resistant clothing in case of arc flash.

    if they did let you through they would have to have an employee lead you, consuming time and an inconvenience.

  7. #7
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    Thank you for the advice I will continue to ask permission,the claim has been there for some time and is really the only way in/out.

  8. #8
    Charter Member
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    Take a look at the gate itself where the locks are located. If there is a row of locks then you will be able to either get a key or put your lock on. You should contact BLM or the Forest Service about getting into the claim. On one set of claims there was a side road that took you into the river away from the hydro plant but that road washed out and the road to the plant became the access for everyone, claim owners and all have their own locks on those gates. It's not up to the Hydro Manager if it's on public land, it's just knowing who to contact for the access.

  9. #9
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoser John View Post
    911 was a great excuse to restrict access to many hydro electric areas BUT the largest majority withdrawn from mineral entry through power withdrawl. You can claim just about anything but that only means they took your money and not legal as withdrawn. They are SUPPOSED to review prior to giving you your CAMC documentation number and tell you to refile under power withdrawl. John
    You didn't see the notice the law about mineral withdrawals in power sites changed John? It's only been 60 years since we've had the right to locate mining claims on those withdrawals. You must be even older than I am.

    The law is the Mining Rights Restoration Act of 1955.

    30 USC §621. Entry to lands reserved for power development

    (a) Conditions of entry
    All public lands belonging to the United States heretofore, now or hereafter withdrawn or reserved for power development or power sites shall be open to entry for location and patent of mining claims and for mining, development, beneficiation, removal, and utilization of the mineral resources of such lands under applicable Federal statutes: Provided, That all power rights to such lands shall be retained by the United States: Provided further, That locations made under this chapter within the revested Oregon and California Railroad and reconveyed Coos Bay Wagon grant lands shall also be subject to the provisions of the Act of April 8, 1948, Public Law 477 (Eightieth Congress, second session): And provided further, That nothing contained herein shall be construed to open for the purposes described in this section any lands (1) which are included in any project operating or being constructed under a license or permit issued under the Federal Power Act [16 U.S.C. 791a et seq.] or other Act of Congress, or (2) which are under examination and survey by a prospective licensee of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, if such prospective licensee holds an uncanceled preliminary permit issued under the Federal Power Act authorizing him to conduct such examination and survey with respect to such lands and such permit has not been renewed in the case of such prospective licensee more than once.

    (b) Placer claims; notice; hearing; order; rules and regulations
    The locator of a placer claim under this chapter, however, shall conduct no mining operations for a period of sixty days after the filing of a notice of location pursuant to section 623 of this title. If the Secretary of the Interior, within sixty days from the filing of the notice of location, notifies the locator by registered mail or certified mail of the Secretary's intention to hold a public hearing to determine whether placer mining operations would substantially interfere with other uses of the land included within the placer claim, mining operations on that claim shall be further suspended until the Secretary has held the hearing and has issued an appropriate order. The order issued by the Secretary of the Interior shall provide for one of the following: (1) a complete prohibition of placer mining; (2) a permission to engage in placer mining upon the condition that the locator shall, following placer operations, restore the surface of the claim to the condition in which it was immediately prior to those operations; or (3) a general permission to engage in placer mining. No order by the Secretary with respect to such operations shall be valid unless a certified copy is filed in the same State or county office in which the locator's notice of location has been filed in compliance with the United States mining laws.

    The Secretary shall establish such rules and regulations as he deems desirable concerning bonds and deposits with respect to the restoration of lands to their condition prior to placer mining operations. Moneys received from any bond or deposit shall be used for the restoration of the surface of the claim involved, and any money received in excess of the amount needed for the restoration of the surface of that claim shall be refunded.

    (c) Validity of withdrawals unaffected
    Nothing in this chapter shall affect the validity of withdrawals or reservations for purposes other than power development.
    Go get u sum!

    Heavy Pans
    Last edited by Clay Diggins; Mar 29, 2016 at 10:28 PM.

  10. #10
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    Mar 2003
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    I've had them on the Merced on lands adjudicated by SMUD in the 80s. Legal under 3730.0-1 and as stated above in (b),also 3730.0-3, 3730-0-09, and subpart 3731. I also had claims on the trinity filed under power withdrawl just south of Douglas city filed in /about 2005 or so and still legal by another friend who has them. Page 738 in the claims manual from blm. It just takes a bit longer to get authorization and as all claims subject to forfeit under a plethora of excuses--John.

  11. #11
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    fowledup

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    Define access, up our way they will not give you a key, or allow motorized vehicles on "their" road but will give permission for a claim holder to access their claim on foot or bicycle. One of my partners gave up two excellent claims that we used to drive to within a few hundred yards but have now turned into a 5 mile steep azz hike that none of us can no longer do. Haven't looked them up but my guess is SPI has claimed them by now as that is what they have done to the rest of the area.
    Folks may not remember the words of what you said but they dang sure will remember how you made them feel!

  12. #12
    Charter Member
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    Their road as in their property? My relationship with SPI is different because I retired from there but he's not talking about crossing SPI land. Some of the SPI roads have guards that drive them all day every day and they will remove you, if you don't belong there. But this is public land here at the hydro plants, not SPI property.

  13. #13
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    Placer and hardrock PW claims ARE definitely 100% legal to do no matter what bs someone says about my bloody age. BLM manual has specific information on page 28 of the claims manual-PLACER MINING CLAIMS IN POWERSITE WITHDRAWL and page 29 yet another set of process and procedure article LODE MINING CLAIMS IN POWERSITE WITHDRAWLS. Educate your ignorance and insolence..John

  14. #14
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoser John View Post
    Placer and hardrock PW claims ARE definitely 100% legal to do no matter what bs someone says about my bloody age. BLM manual has specific information on page 28 of the claims manual-PLACER MINING CLAIMS IN POWERSITE WITHDRAWL and page 29 yet another set of process and procedure article LODE MINING CLAIMS IN POWERSITE WITHDRAWLS. Educate your ignorance and insolence..John
    Yup, had to file under PL359 many times. Then Gramps back in the 60's had a claim taken away because the power company put an emergency drain down the canyon. We still went there and mined but even today, it can't be claimed because of the danger of water being diverted if there's a problem with the turbine at the powerhouse. Some of the guys down stream used to laugh at me because I had ropes going 50' up the banks, and tied to my dredge sitting on the ground in front of the hole. Then one day I heard the rush and looked up as a 10' wall of water came crashing down the canyon. I simply unhooked the dredge hose, climbed onto the dredge and rode it up. Finally after it settled I had one of the best days dredging in my life because I had clean water and plenty of it to run in. They guys down stream lost all of their equipment and came up to me in shock as I was still working and the ropes were pulled tight with the dredge floating. I did this a number of times for many years

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have ropes going up both sides of the walls, but here you can just see the ropes going up one side, the other is either there or being set up because the right side was harder to get too where the left was a short walk from the truck on the way in up the hill. Now picture that canyon full of water from bank to bank... We camped up on the hill and never left our cars down there when dredging.
    Last edited by Reed Lukens; Mar 31, 2016 at 04:45 PM.

 

 

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