Yet another land grab

[goldenIrishman]

Found this article in the Kingman Daily Miner this morning. Looks like Obummer is trying to lock up even more good mining areas without a thought about miners and other users of PUBLIC lands. Yet another monument to NOTHING and a blatant land grab by the feds. Brought to you by the Sierra Club....Again!!!!

Grand Canyon Monument: Preserving Wilderness or a Naked Land Grab? - Kingman Daily Miner - Kingman, Arizona

People in the areas are not happy about this grab at all and are making their voices heard. All Arizona miners and users of public lands need to sound off and let the government know that we will not stand for yet another theft of our public lands.

 

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[Jeff95531]

I think he wants all these "monuments" before he leaves office just in case one will eventually be named after him for it. As John would say...sic sic sic

 

[goldenIrishman]

What gets me is that these are PUBLIC LANDS. Hence forth... Wouldn't it make sense for the PUBLIC to have some say in just what is done with them? We need to make our voices heard on these "Monuments" and the outright theft of properties that belong to us! If you go to MyLandMatters, open up the Arizona claims map and compare it to the proposed areas for this so called monument, you'll see that much of the proposed area is smack dab in the middle of some very good mining ground.

Then there is also the little matter of the fact that not all of the lands within this area are public lands! So now these property owners will loose much of the value of their land should they ever try or even be able to sell. The only ones that would be interested in it would be the government and they sure are not going to give fair market value.

The government is abusing the antiquities act to get these monuments rammed through. The antiquities act states that they can only take the MINIMUM amount of land needed to protect an area. So why are they trying to take an area that is nearly the size of the state of Maryland? There is also the fact that federal management of these land is a major joke as it is. They're 11.9 BILLION dollars behind on deferred maintenance costs already and this will only increase that debt.

 

[winners58]

there's alot more Harry Reid's push to designate 350,000 acres around Gold Butte Nevada

Obama's California desert monument: a benefit to some, a 'land grab' to others | US news | The Guardian
Obama creates three new national monuments to protect California desert | Environment | The Guardian

 

[boogeyman]

They Ole Bummers looking for his legacy....... I've got an idea! everything - what little I've touched has turned to doo doo.

For the last 10 or 20 years I've noticed they're closing areas, blocking roads & trails, making it near impossible to walk off the side of roads due to planting cactus etc. There's not really any explanation except control most any way to get out of Dodge when it hits the fan is being closed off. Anywhere a small scale miner can make a buck is being withdrawn or taken away. Check your newer topos against your old topos notice how much information has been eliminated? The newer maps aren't much better than a road map. I pity the city folk, they're being forced slowly & quietly into the cities "for our safety" they'll never comprehend what's going on

Anyone else notice these things?

 

[rodoconnor]

I hope you guys can make enough noise to stop this. Get with 4X4 clubs ,hunters,hikers, campers ,birdwatchers,rock hounds, dirtbikers anybody that enjoys the land. Have you ever checked into the salaries that the board of directors of the Sierra Club and others ? Not a bad caper those guys and gals have got going. Good Luck fellers !!

 

[johnnysau]

The government knows where the minerals are, LAND GRAB or whatever "guise" or whoever "group" to use to shut down
the public land is outRAGEous. Its not fair. You know justice, its really JUST US.
johnnysau

 

[kcm]

It's sad - had a nice, long paragraph written up but didn't want to risk getting banned here. ...And I don't give a rat's rear about the politics involved. It's losing our RIGHTS that's ticking me off!

I could be wrong, as there is a lot I just have to shut out rather than going insane, but I think it all boils down to the land. I don't think they care about what minerals are there, just so long as illegal border crossings are not likely to stop! -- -- -- (...started doing it again) ....I do think minerals is a part of the equation, but a smaller part.

 

[arizau]

The environmentalists position: But if we lock it up, it will be there for all the future generations to see and enjoy......and I add; as they freeze to death in the dark!!!!

See below.

 

[Jeff95531]

OK. We all know politics isn't tolerated here...so let's let Roy Rogers say it all for us.

 

[goldenIrishman]

there's alot more Harry Reid's push to designate 350,000 acres around Gold Butte Nevada

Obama's California desert monument: a benefit to some, a 'land grab' to others | US news | The Guardian
Obama creates three new national monuments to protect California desert | Environment | The Guardian

I hadn't heard about the Nevada one Winners. Thanks for posting the link. The California desert grabs are already a done deal but if we raise enough stink about them there is a slight possibility that they could be overturned and the land put back to its previous designation.

They Ole Bummers looking for his legacy....... I've got an idea! everything - what little I've touched has turned to doo doo.

For the last 10 or 20 years I've noticed they're closing areas, blocking roads & trails, making it near impossible to walk off the side of roads due to planting cactus etc. There's not really any explanation except control most any way to get out of Dodge when it hits the fan is being closed off. Anywhere a small scale miner can make a buck is being withdrawn or taken away. Check your newer topos against your old topos notice how much information has been eliminated? The newer maps aren't much better than a road map. I pity the city folk, they're being forced slowly & quietly into the cities "for our safety" they'll never comprehend what's going on

Anyone else notice these things?

If you go to the USGS and download different editions of the same maps it's easy to see the changes. I had downloaded all of the maps for my county with the aerial views only to find that the majority of them didn't include the PLSS grid. Now.... Tell me again how the majority of claims are filed here. OH YEAH!!!! THE PLSS SYSTEM!!!! I had to go back and download the same maps all over again to get the older versions that had the grid on them. Burned up 2 months of download allotment from my old provider and I HATE having to do work twice as it is.

You'll also see that the newer maps have gotten rid of many of the old mine locations, unimproved roads etc etc etc. The mines were left out "for safety reasons" so people wouldn't enter them. Considering that many of the mines here have vertical shafts and the head frame has been removed or has rotted away over time knowing where these holes in the ground are might be a good thing for a dirt biker or other off roader to know before they go splat. If someone is stupid enough to enter an abandoned mine then let Darwinisum take its course.

BTW Boogyman... I like your location! Know it well! Spend time the the fugowai tribe quite often.

The environmentalists position: But if we lock it up, it will be there for all the future generations to see and enjoy......and I add; as they freeze to death in the dark!!!!

See below.

Or in the case of the Sierra Fund and Dizzy Izzy, we'll make it so honest people can't mine their claims and then come through and do a "Mercury Remediation" at the tax payers expense and keep the gold for ourselves. Mother Nature takes care of itself given enough time. If humans do their part and pack their trash out when they visit, those lands will be there for many generations to come and still be open for our use and enjoyment. Between the ESA, Water quality acts, and so called Land Management practices that have proven to cause more harm than good (look at the major fires in our forests last year as an example), maybe it's the government that should be banned from the parks and public lands. I don't know about the rest of you but that sounds like a wonderful idea to me!!!

 

[winners58]

designated;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:National_Monuments_designated_by_Barack_Obama
next likely ones;
12 most likely places Obama may make a national monument | The Salt Lake Tribune
(edit)oop's 2014 story two of these have already been designated.

with out getting into politics too much
the one's that scare me the most is like when Sally Jewell spoke at the malheur national refuge
she said we do give back lands to local control, we transferred lands back to "conservation trust's"
IMHO the mindset is just way off in left field.

 

[OwenT]

designated;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:National_Monuments_designated_by_Barack_Obama

I guess he wants to make it at least an even 20?

 

[boogeyman]

I hope you guys can make enough noise to stop this. Get with 4X4 clubs ,hunters,hikers, campers ,birdwatchers,rock hounds, dirtbikers anybody that enjoys the land. Have you ever checked into the salaries that the board of directors of the Sierra Club and others ? Not a bad caper those guys and gals have got going. Good Luck fellers !!

I'm probably gonna get a ton of flak for saying this but, around here the 4x4 clubs around here are more than happy to go along with the program just to keep the little strips of trails open to ride their quads. Most of them have better spiels than the rangers, so they're not much help at all.

 

[kcm]

I'm probably gonna get a ton of flak for saying this but, around here the 4x4 clubs around here are more than happy to go along with the program just to keep the little strips of trails open to ride their quads. Most of them have better spiels than the rangers, so they're not much help at all.

Why should you get flack for stating a factual observation? Don't worry about it. ...But this land-grab crap IS getting real old real fast!

 

[Hoser John]

So they paved paradise and put in a parking lot with paid to look telescopes....oooooooo yes the pure essence of a natural outdoor experience sic Sic SIC somma The clown Brown doing the same same here in kalif as these insidious bureauratz try to polish their ugly legacy with massive landgrabs they can take credit for... John

 

[gold nuggets]

and when they get the pay-for-view telescopes installed John, they will charge the public for each picture they take from a camera or a cell phone.......and require a PERMIT to operate the telescopes. buncha losers.....all of them.

 

[63bkpkr]

A few of you have commented something like 'being able to only live in the city'. So in another 15 to 30 years who's going to be hiking in the backcountry? Well of course it will be federally mandated packs of Wolves. I mean there has been one breeding pair with pups already spotted in Northern California.

A question, has anyone here ever been involved with a pack of semi wild dogs? I have and it is not a fun thing! Packs of Wolves, each Wolf happens to be really big in size as well as strong, happen to be Carnivores which means they kill anything to eat so as the Wolf packs grow out of control, oh wait there is no control, all game will get really scarce. What are they going to do, sit down on their haunches and die? No, there will be groups of living areas with people in them the wolves will consider them as nothing more than food. Not only will people become food they will be stupid food for having allowed Wolf packs back into wide spread uncontrolled existence. Politicians and Wolves, very similar beasts.

Once humans, either one at a time or in small groups of 5 to 30 are hunted down by wolves so they are taught to stay out of the woods including mineral bearing areas what will happen? Do you think big money and power will leave those places to return to the wild? Think of Magadan in Russia and what was done there, the Russian government outlawed all prospecting, jailed anyone caught prospecting and so "the little people" stopped mining. After a few years the Russian government sold mining leases to major corporations that went in and tore down every plant, bush and tree and stripped mined the entire area. They got gold, lots of gold and timber but only the rich prospered as the earth in that area was destroyed. Once you have so much money and power, why do you need more? Due to the advent of the internet you can type in Magadan Gold and you can watch the video clip of the destruction of the back country.

Just a thought......................63bkpkr

 

[boogeyman]

So they paved paradise and put in a parking lot with paid to look telescopes....oooooooo yes the pure essence of a natural outdoor experience sic Sic SIC somma The clown Brown doing the same same here in kalif as these insidious bureauratz try to polish their ugly legacy with massive landgrabs they can take credit for... John

Funny you mention that John. What these bright politicians don't see is they're killing their own state. If you travel through Orange County especially Irvine & Santa Ana there's a prime example. The industrial areas were thriving with medium to small businesses. I mean you had a difficult time finding industrial rentals. Then in the 80s you started seeing buildings sitting empty for months & even years, why? Because if you ran a business that used most any chemical in the process you better have deeeeeepp pockets. By the time you paid for the permits from the city, county, state, AQMD, etc. You're looking at moving to Riverside or San Berdoo or even out of the state which the added transportation costs was cheaper. If you decide to stay, you're subject to inspections from inspectors that hand out citations like they were prizes at the county fair. Ok, they're losing tax revenue big time, so what do these brilliant politicians do? Add & or raise taxes!?!?!? The idiots don't look down the road to see this isn't going to work what are people going to do when they can't afford the permit fees & taxes & penalties? Move out you say? There you go! You're smarter than Jerry Brown & the rest of his cronies!

 

[kcm]

"Politicians and Wolves, very similar beasts."
I trust the wolves more ANY day!!

Nice write-up 63bkpkr. Well said and well written.