Highbankers also illegal in California?
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  1. #1
    us
    Nov 2013
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    Prospecting

    Highbankers also illegal in California?

    I spoke with the DFW today and they told me any use of an engine is illegal. The dredging ban was expanded Jan 1, 2016 to include the processing of material not just suction of material. Anyone run into trouble yet?
    Bill_saf likes this.

  2. #2
    us
    FIRE...Financially Independent Retired Early. Poor but free!

    Feb 2013
    Deep in the redwoods of the TRUE Northern CA
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    Well, 1/1/2016 has come and passed. Haven't yet to ever run into trouble but it's hand tools, hands and pans for at least the last 5 years in my neck of the woods...which extends to a two hour radius from me. I have and use a hand powered suction dredge and have a lot of documents to back me up on it's use. Doesn't mean I don't try to push the envelope at times but hi-banking? Wouldn't recommend it. I only gamble with what I can afford to lose. Velcome to CA!
    We don't fight for gain. We fight for what is rightfully ours.

    Just another supporter of Land Matters http://www.mylandmatters.org/ The one stop place for mining matters on public lands!

    CA prospectors check here http://www.mylandmatters.org/Donate/Gift1.html

    A recent study found that there are just too many studies being done.

  3. #3
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
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    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by mcordell View Post
    I spoke with the DFW today and they told me any use of an engine is illegal. The dredging ban was expanded Jan 1, 2016 to include the processing of material not just suction of material. Anyone run into trouble yet?
    The law says nothing like that. It clearly only applies to underwater suction dredging within the current banks of a river or lake.

    Read the law for yourself.

    Heavy Pans

  4. #4
    us
    FIRE...Financially Independent Retired Early. Poor but free!

    Feb 2013
    Deep in the redwoods of the TRUE Northern CA
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    Hey Clay. Not to high jack the thread but do you see my activity with a hand held dredge as perceived illegal? And in-stream sluice...but out of the 6 Rivers National Recreational Area (as in the NFS)
    We don't fight for gain. We fight for what is rightfully ours.

    Just another supporter of Land Matters http://www.mylandmatters.org/ The one stop place for mining matters on public lands!

    CA prospectors check here http://www.mylandmatters.org/Donate/Gift1.html

    A recent study found that there are just too many studies being done.

  5. #5
    us
    Bill

    Jul 2014
    w/c Illinois
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    310 times
    Prospecting
    Clay I went to the web page you posted and picked the over and as I can see this is how they are reading it to mean. I did copy and past and high lite what I found in the law that if I read it fast I would miss it.


    Senate Bill No. 637
    CHAPTER 680

    An act to amend Section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code, and to add Section 13172.5 to the Water Code, relating to dredging.

    [ Approved by Governor October 09, 2015. Filed with Secretary of State October 09, 2015. ]

    LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

    The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

    SECTION 1. The Legislature finds and declares all of the following:

    (h) Given the importance of protecting the water supply for all Californians from degradation, the need to protect what is left of California native cultural sites, and the value of protecting the state’s wildlife, it is urgent that the Legislature act immediately to clarify the laws regulating suction dredge mining and other related forms of small scale motorized gold mining in the state’s streams and waterways.

    SEC. 2. Section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code is amended to read:

    (g) For purposes of this section and Section 5653.1, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, also known as suction dredging, is the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals. This section and Section 5653.1 do not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold.

    SEC. 3. Section 13172.5 is added to the Water Code, to read:

    13172.5. (a) For purposes of this section, the use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment, also known as suction dredging from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals. This section does not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold.

    (3) Prohibit any particular use of, or methods of using, vacuum or suction dredge equipment, or any portion thereof, for the extraction of minerals that the state board or a regional board determines generally cause or contribute to an exceedance of applicable water quality objectives or unreasonably impact beneficial uses.


    if IM wrong then Im Sorry but it can be read like that if one picks it a part.


    Bill
    Don't underestimate ME. I know more than I say, Think more then I speck, & Notice more than you Realize
    One day My teacher pointed at me with his ruler and said: At the end of this ruled is a idiot! I got detention after asking which end.

  6. #6
    us
    Nov 2013
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    Prospecting
    Bill you are 100% correct in the lines you highlighted. The DFW interprets this to include any motor used for any processing of any material for any mineral recovery. Not limited to dredging for the purpose of moving material. I was told today by the DFW Northern California office in Redding any motor used will result in the equipment being confiscated and prosecution. This is the way the DFW will enforce the law until further clarification from the Legislature.

  7. #7
    if it flies, it dies

    Jan 2015
    gpx 4500 sdc 2300
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    ducks, bucks and gold
    "any portion thereof" "assist in the removal of" you could interprate it to make a hooka illegal if it assists you in the removal of material. very open ended f&g law that typically would be laughed at in court, but is not the case
    Jeff95531 likes this.
    got the fever? dont scratch the itch.

  8. #8
    if it flies, it dies

    Jan 2015
    gpx 4500 sdc 2300
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    ducks, bucks and gold
    "in the streams in waterways" this would mean that you could run a highbanker away from a stream, but i think any wardan would see it differently. the way its worded you can dredge or highbank in areas where no runoff can enter the water, expect to get your stuff confiscated though. im so sick of this state.
    got the fever? dont scratch the itch.

  9. #9
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_saf View Post
    Clay I went to the web page you posted and picked the over and as I can see this is how they are reading it to mean. I did copy and past and high lite what I found in the law that if I read it fast I would miss it.


    if IM wrong then Im Sorry but it can be read like that if one picks it a part.


    Bill
    If you treat it as English language and read the entire sentence there is no way it could be read to affect highbanking.

    If you take individual parts of the sentences and recombine them you could read it to mean you can't vacuum your floors in California. Of course that's not the intent or floors and highbankers would be mentioned instead of:

    known as suction dredging from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.
    The entire Section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code relates to permits for suction dredging. The amendments to Section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code relate to permits for suction dredging.

    Nowhere in any of these codes are floor vacuuming or highbanking mentioned. The rule of the law is that laws should be narrowly construed. Otherwise you couldn't vacuum your floor or water your lawn or crops without a dredging permit. Whats next the DFW will try to convince us we can't have a vacuum cleaner within 100 yards of a stream? Fishermen couldn't have motors on their boats and anyone driving their car near a river could be arrested for using a motor near water if they don't have the non existent dredge permit.

    The legislature didn't include highbanking or using stream water or driving cars for uses outside the " bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake". In fact there is no part of the law that addresses activities outside of a " bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake". Assuming this law could affect activities outside of a " bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake" would affect any use of water or motors in the extraction of minerals or anything else. That would not be a fish and water rule it would be a ban on mining and driving cars and running a camp generator and watering crops.

    Find an entire sentence in the law that could be construed to apply to anything but suction dredge permits. Every sentence you highlighted contains the words "suction dredge". The preamble clearly states that the law is being amended to "clarify the laws regulating suction dredge mining and other related forms of small scale motorized gold mining in the state’s streams and waterways." Not on land, not in your car and not on your floor only "in the state’s streams and waterways". Highbanking does not take place "in the state’s streams and waterways".

    Heavy Pans

  10. #10
    us
    Feb 2015
    Moses Lake WA & Provo UT
    426
    596 times
    Prospecting
    Yea the fact that it qualifies everything to be "known as suction dredging" clearly shows that the intent is not to ban highbanking and that is where we need to stand. However I know that several people have been told by DFW in the field that high banking is not allowed and I wonder if there's another law that has to do with removing water from the waterway. In WA even if you're not in the water you can be mining in the waterway because it is defined as everything below the ordinary high water line and that's a good thing because it let's us highbank without getting a water right which is required for removing water from the waterway.
    et1955 likes this.

  11. #11
    us
    FIRE...Financially Independent Retired Early. Poor but free!

    Feb 2013
    Deep in the redwoods of the TRUE Northern CA
    Teknetics Alpha 2000
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    No permits shall be be issued as they no longer exist and yet they still seize the equipment as "we" are "now" in violation.
    Hoser John and Bill_saf like this.
    We don't fight for gain. We fight for what is rightfully ours.

    Just another supporter of Land Matters http://www.mylandmatters.org/ The one stop place for mining matters on public lands!

    CA prospectors check here http://www.mylandmatters.org/Donate/Gift1.html

    A recent study found that there are just too many studies being done.

  12. #12
    us
    Sep 2013
    Motherlode, CA
    Gold Bug Pro
    537
    959 times
    (g) For purposes of this section and Section 5653.1, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, also known as suction dredging (THE WAY I READ IT IS ANYTHING FROM THIS POINT ON DEFINES VACUUM/SUCTION DREDGING),<font color="#FF0000"> is the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals. This section and Section 5653.1 do not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold.

    Your local LEO may not be an English major, he'll, or even a minor, but you may have to educate them. It's all about sentence structure. Highbankers are good as far as I'm concerned. All the other BS regarding permits for high banking is just that. Hello? "You need a permit but we're not issuing them at this time" I have that Q&A stored away for future litigation.
    Jeff95531 likes this.

  13. #13
    us
    Mar 2003
    Redding,Calif.
    5,847
    6667 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Leave the pump outfits at home or pay the price BIGTIME. Or when a tree falls in the forest and crashes to the ground did it really happen if no one ever sees it?? Play the game and you must be willing and able to pay the price. John

  14. #14
    us
    fowledup

    Jul 2013
    Northern California
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    "No sir officer, that is not a dredge or highbanker pump! That is my streamside fire protection pump! I'm an evironmental warrior who's prepared to do his part to save the flora and fauna should such a need arise! In fact I would kindly ask that you extinguish your cigarette within the vicinity of my personal space (cough cough). What those old things? Well I'm using nasty old legacy mining hand tools to dig around in the riverbank searching for Yellow Legged Mountain Frog breeding sites. Yes sir I report directly to the Sierra Fund and Center for Bio Diversity. Well better get back to it, Deep Peace be with you in your travels my brother!"
    ...................................Works every time!
    Folks may not remember the words of what you said but they dang sure will remember how you made them feel!

  15. #15
    Make America Great Again

    Apr 2013
    Oregon
    1,640
    3775 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    they changed it to; the definition of a suction dredge is; the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing
    or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.

    they have added the word Definition
    in SB 637 its not a definition, its a meaning that relies on the word suction dredge.
    whats the difference between a definition and a meaning, without context the meaning is subject to interpretation
    such as "the Earth" it can mean "the planet", "the people" or "the ground" (dirt)

    an air compressor, is life support, it does not process material.
    a water pump, in California a claim owner or his agent has riparian rights to pump Water
    the other thing is the 100 yards from the waterway and if its above the high water line its not mining the bed or bank of a river.
    Clay Diggins, Bill_saf and russau like this.
    " A pessimist is an optimist with experience "

 

 
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